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How does God Create Evil

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by robert derrick, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    I’ll stick with Gods doctrine! “God created evil”.

    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    How does God create evil? Did He create the devil evil? Does He create evil people?

    How does He create darkness? Does He create the children of darkness?
     
  2. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    I've always chocked it up to the fact that He creates/created the original source that evil/darkness comes from.

    Having said that, there are verses in scripture that plainly state that God sends demons to people; also there is the verse about wickedness destroying evil people.

    And, don't forget, the fiery flying serpents(dragons) that He sent to punish the Israelites in the wilderness.

    [​IMG]

    I believe God creates evil for His purposes and our role is to simply trust Him with all our heart, know that He answers to NOBODY, and accept anything, and all, that He does without question.

    He is the Almighty Creator of everything that we know. Who are we to judge anything that He does?

    God bless.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  3. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    He creates/created the original source that evil/darkness comes from.

    What do you mean? What 'original source'? Are you talking about some source for evil that has always been from everlasting? And enters into His perfectly created beings, such as Lucifer?

    Would you say plainly that God creates evil people?

    He is the Almighty Creator of everything that we know. Who are we to judge anything that He does?

    I agree not to judge God in anything that he does, if it is Scripture that says he does it. God creates darkness and evil.

    But asking how He does so, is not judging His doing of it. This Scripture after all has been used by many accusing God of being evil, for creating them evil, and it is therefore not their fault for doing evil.

    It is also, I believe, the first lying accusation against God by the devil: Why hast thou made me such? As in, God made me the devil, so who am I to fight against it?

    The question I ask, I believe would refute the devil's accusation, as well as that of evil men that justify their evil existence as God's will for them on earth: They literally say they are only doing God's will to do evil, being created that way.
     
  4. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    No, I think I just mean Lucifer. God created him as an angel and must've somehow given him the inherent potential to fall, or at least knew that he would fall. I can't accept that God didn't know what would happen and the Bible plainly states the He knows the end from the beginning.

    Also, look how God uses evil for His purposes. He needed a fall-guy, a scapegoat. Many very sophisticated organizations do this very thing today as well. They will actually create a bad guy to do their dirty work. It is very effective and keeps their hands clean. (The government creates terrorist organizations and then declares war for the crimes they commit, but I didn't tell you that. Nobody will see this, will they?) Yet, I believe God's purposes are much more profound than that.
    No, I don't believe He does, actually. I believe the devil creates them, or created the seed line at one time. Genesis 3:15? I have a long article written up about the Wheat and the Tares concept, but haven't published it because I can't find definitive information that they can be saved or not. I belive they cannot because they don't have the spiritual DNA to hear God's calling. Only His sheep, those with ears to hear, can hear his call. Isn't it interesting that sheep have ears, but snakes do not?
    Yes, I agree. That wasn't directed at you, personally.
    Well, there are multiple very interesting verses throughout scripture that seem to state, or strongly imply, that some actually are created evil, and some even created for destruction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  5. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    God created him as an angel and must've somehow given him the inherent potential to fall.

    Such as free will.

    Lucifer made himself the devil, even as Adam made himself a transgressor. Both were created equally perfect, as a spirit and as a man, and both chose iniquity rather than obedience to God: the spirit was judged immediately so soon as the iniquity was found in him, and the man was judged only after the transgression committed, and even then appeared to be seeking a means of forgiveness by confession from the heart: godly sorrow and repentance.

    or at least knew that he would fall.

    Or at least He certainly knew with free will one would fall, but did not know, until He saw the iniquity in the one falling, even as he was thinking to rise up.

    He knows the end from the beginning.

    From the beginning of creation, before which there was no beginning at all, but only from everlasting before the beginning.

    From the beginning He knows our ending, because He can search the very heart and mind from the beginning.

    Also, look how God uses evil for His purposes. He needed a fall-guy, a scapegoat.

    All things work together for the good to them that love Him, especially them that endure evil temptation and overcome it.

    But, did He need evil to come? or did He purpose to use it for His purposes, if or when it came. God knew by creating beings with free will would certainly result in at least one of them choosing iniquity over obedience.

    And so, in this way, God creates good beings with free will, and so risks creating evil entering into them.

    There is no great gain without risk?

    I believe the devil creates them, or created the seed line at one time.

    Now, the devil is that spirit of evil, and lying spirit, that God chooses to send for His own purposes to destroy them that would be destroyed by their own evil devices, including strong delusion to them that love not the truth.

    Only His sheep, those with ears to hear, can hear his call. Isn't it interesting that sheep have ears, but snakes do not?

    At least, after the transgression and the serpent's judgment, because he certainly had ears to hear Even speaking to him. And so, you are right to see the fact that snakes now have no ears to hear, but only senses movement nearby on his territory, and either flees or strikes without thought for which: evil without judgment.

    and some even created for destruction.

    The vessels made fit for destruction by the Potter are those souls searched from the womb, which God can do, as with Jacob and Esau. The two were struggling against one another in the womb of Rebecca, and she inquired of the Lord, and then the Lord spoke His judgment after searching their hearts, that the older would serve the younger.

    And we see in Scripture how it came to pass exactly as God prophesied from the womb.
     
  6. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Was it a spiritual DNA that God detected in them, or something else?

    Just as I believe True Israel are a spiritual race because God is a Spirit, it is possible that the devil's seed line is a spiritual seed line. But there are some indications that the seed line is actually physical.

    Dare we venture into the concept of Giants?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Another unprofitable thread from you. No, God does not create evil, since He hates evil.
     
  8. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    He says Himself that He does, though.

    What's wrong with Him creating evil?
     
  9. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    The more accurate translations show God saying "I create calamity/adversity". There is a huge difference, especially because the context shows God juxtaposing this against a state of peace and calm. The point God was making with this statement is that He had the power to bring peace or inflict disaster to any human civilization, as He showed very often in the OT. To argue God creates evil is tantamount to arguing that there is lawlessness in God, which couldn't be further from the truth since His commandments reflect the character of a completely holy and just Being.

    If someone wants to believe that God truly created evil, they must also believe that He inflicts punishment on people for His personal amusement. Again, this contradicts the scriptures saying God takes no pleasure in punishing people and that the punishment that He inflicts(or allows) is for purely altruistic reasons. It suits Satan for people look at God as if He was as vindictive, cruel, and petty as the false gods the ancient Greeks and Romans worshiped. Theology like "God creates evil" is why i tell people to be extremely wary of translated bibles.
     
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  10. Oceanprayers

    Oceanprayers Active Member

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    Where there is no law there is no transgression of the law,sin.
    God created that rule.
    Without one we would not know other.
    Light,darkness,good,evil,etc ..
     
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  11. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    What translations do you consider the most accurate?

    KJV says evil. Isaiah 45:7

    Strong's Concordance shows the word calamity to be pretty equal to evil.
    Strong's Concordance Isaiah 45:7
    7451b. calamity - (ra)

    ra: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
    Transliteration: ra
    Definition: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from the same as roa
    Definition
    evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
    NASB Translation
    adversity (7), calamity (4), disaster (2), evil (94), harm (2), harmful (1), hurt (1), ruin (3), surely (1), trouble (2), unpleasant (1), wickedly (1), wickedness (1).

    I wouldn't put calamity and adversity in the same box at all. Adversity diminishes the emphasis greatly and I found no version that uses adversity.

    ca·lam·i·ty
    /kəˈlamədē/
    noun
    1. an event causing great and often sudden damage or distress; a disaster. "the journey had led to calamity and ruin."
    ad·ver·si·ty
    /ədˈvərsədē/
    noun
    1. difficulties; misfortune.
      "resilience in the face of adversity"
    I really think this is a considerable stretch. And I don't know what the argument would even be. It says plainly in His Word that He creates evil/calamity. This shouldn't offend anyone, seeing as how He is The Creator of absolutely everything.

    What's the issue?
    Did God NOT create fiery flying serpents to punish the Israelites in the wilderness?

    Did He NOT send demons upon King Saul?

    Did He NOT send unimaginable plagues and terrifying swarms of all kinds of creatures to showcase His Power and Glory?

    I don't understand the modern need to make God ONLY loving and kind at all times. There is plenty of scripture to show Him as being absolutely terrifying at times, and many of His names even say that.

    Our God is an amazing and Terrible God. We should fear Him with great respect and reverence. Just as scripture says countless times.
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No He did not. Had that Hebrew word ra been translated properly it would have said "disasters" or "calamities". These are natural disasters which only God controls.
    Since God is LIGHT and in Him is NO DARKNESS at all, it would be inconsistent with the His character. It would be like you being accused of stealing from a store when you are not a thief.
     
  13. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Great question Rob, here is our understanding of it:
    The Meaning of Jehovah’s Bringing Evil. Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and thus to keep living.—Eze 33:11.
     
  14. Bob Estey

    Bob Estey Well-Known Member

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    I think one must define "evil." I think evil means "pain." Without pain we'd all be a bunch of spoiled brats, wouldn't we?

    And one must define "darkness." I might define "darkness" as a life without hope. It is the result of living selfishly.
     
  15. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing.

    Amen brother! Excellent answer. God hates all evil, yet God does evil things. Why? For the good.

    God condemns all killing as evil, yet God have been the greatest killer of men ever, for the good.

    As you said with the flood, we see why God did so much evil: to save Noah, who found grace with God. Noah was not saved from the flood by the ark, but was saved from the rest of evil humanity by the flood:

    Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    And so, doing an evil thing is not doing evil.

    And God must judge righteous judgment upon them that do evil and do not repent, and yet He takes no pleasure in it:

    For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

    And so God must do an evil thing, but not for His own pleasure, but evil people choose to do evil for their own benefit.

    Also, He created evil, in that He created beings with free will to choose to do evil, rather than the good.

    If God had ever predetermined a soul to do evil or good, then God that is love would have predetermined all to do good: All little Christs from the beginning.

    Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

    God's love demands free will choice to serve Him or not from the heart.
     
  16. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    How then does Light in whom is no darkness at all create darkness?
     
  17. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Why do you squander your life on such unprofitable threads?

    You know better than God?

    And you dare assert God's limitations? That, my friend, is blasphemy. Look it up!
     
  18. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    We should fear Him with great respect and reverence.

    And of wrath. Wrath is not good, but a necessary evil. God created necessary evil, when He created free will in His creations.

    As Gwin said, all evil is not injustice, yet no evil is good.

    Did God NOT create fiery flying serpents to punish the Israelites in the wilderness?

    And hell and the lake of fire. God created death, which is the wage of sins, when creating the living, and warned the living soul not to transgress and die.

    And so my question is: since you suggest God sent a lying spirit to the evil king, did God create a lie?

    No doubt God could be Omnipotently the greatest liar ever, since He is the truth. The greatest of lies are the most convincing, which are therefore the most cloaked in truth.

    The best pool sharks are them that miss certain shots convincingly, which takes greater skill than simply making the shot. So with the truth and a lie.

    All liars have their part in the lake of fire, and God created a lying spirit to seduce the king to his own destruction.

    Was God a liar by creating a lie?

    Or wasn't God simply sending to the evil king what he wanted to hear most, since he already showed he did not want to hear the truth spoken by the prophet.

    God gives evil things to evil people, that they may choke on it and die:

    But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the LORD which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?
     
  19. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    Notice how it is only the devil that tempts with sin and evil, not God, as James points out.

    And further notice how it is God that creates and sends lies and evil to them that demand it, because they love not the truth nor Himself.

    An so God is He who gives evil people what they want, to their own destruction, and the devil who tempts them to do it.
     
  20. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    And you dare assert God's limitations? That, my friend, is blasphemy. Look it up!

    And so ultimately Scripture speaking of God creating evil is simply a confirmation of God's Omnipotence: He can do whatever He wants, and who is to stop Him?

    When I saw someone write how God cannot do something, because He is God, I knew something was definitely wrong with peoples' thinking about God.

    The lesson I learn is, never ever say what God cannot do, because by His Omnipotence He can do whatever He pleases to do, and there is none to stop Him from doing so, if He chooses to do so, and therefore our first thankfulness to Him is that He is love:

    We love him, because he first loved us.

    The only things we can say about God is what is clearly written of God in His Word, but we can still never say God cannot...

    God does not change Himself nor transgress His own Word, because He chooses not to, not because He cannot do so.

    Simply saying the words God cannot is the blasphemy you're speaking of, because that is to limit God's Omnipotence.

    Anthropomorphism is placing upon God the characteristics and limitations of man.

    The true God could play Zeus and shower a woman with gold to create another Hercules, and so if He doesn't, it is only because He chooses not to.

    Maybe the myths inspired of the devil were his way of tempting God to outdo the him?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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