How does one "receive" Jesus and His subsequent power?

[Truther]

John 1:12
King James Version

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Was this power and official reception of Jesus in Acts 2, or some other way?


8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Does this debunk the modernists that say "I receive Jesus" without receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost per the Acts 2 experience?

Is there some new, modern way to receive Christ as one's personal savior and skip Acts?

Your questions or comments are welcome here.

 

[amadeus]

John 1:12
King James Version

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Was this power and official reception of Jesus in Acts 2, or some other way?


8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Does this debunk the modernists that say "I receive Jesus" without receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost per the Acts 2 experience?

Is there some new, modern way to receive Christ as one's personal savior and skip Acts?

Your questions or comments are welcome here.

"Receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..."

Then to your reference:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" Acts 2:38-39

There is of course the answer to your question for anyone who is able to understand it. But... don't jump too fast with any conclusions because as you already know different folks here have their own different understandings and/or misunderstandings. So then one step at the time:

1) Repent!
2) Be baptized!
3) In the Name of Jesus Christ...
4) Receive the gift
5) to all...even as many as the Lord our God shall call

 

[amadeus]

Repent or repentance?

John the Baptist came to ready people who were not ready. Only the Jews? Were the gentiles ready? Were not many Jews effectively gentiles [heathen] in their hearts?

Gentiles [from Matt 6:32]


e[qnoß Ethnos (eth'-nos);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 1484

1. 
   
   
   • a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
     1. a company, troop, swarm
   • a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
     1. the human family
   • a tribe, nation, people group
   • in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
   • Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

KJV Word Usage and Count
Gentiles 93
nation 64
heathen 5
people 2

Heathen [from Matt 6:7]

ejqnikovß Ethnikos (eth-nee-kos');
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 1482

1. 
   
   
   • adapted to the genius or customs of a people, peculiar to a people, national
   • suited to the manners or language of foreigners, strange, foreign
   • in the NT savouring of the nature of pagans, alien to the worship of the true God, heathenish
     1. of the pagan, the Gentile

KJV Word Usage and Count
heathen 1
heathen man 1


"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." Matt 3:1-3

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:" Matt 3:7-8

Repent

metanoevw Metanoeo (met-an-o-eh'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 3340

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

 

[amadeus]

@Truther
Be baptized?

Again to John the Baptist:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt 3:11-12

Baptize: from Matt 3:11]

baptivzw Baptizo (bap-tid'-zo);
Word Origin: Greek, , Strong #: 907

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3. to overwhelm

Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptizing the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptized shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.
KJV Word Usage and Count
baptize -76
wash 2
baptist 1
baptized 1

The Baptist used water [H2O], the water of the Jordan River, but he spoke of one to come who would use fire, the fire of the Holy Ghost which would burn up the chaff. The chaff [the waste, the garbage, the dross] but Not that which was good:

"Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." Dan 3:21-25

The men were now loose, the ropes which bound them tightly were gone. And this was accomplished by...God, was it not?

"For our God is a consuming fire." Heb. 12:29

Immersion [baptism] in the fire, not as those following the lead and orders of men, but those obeying God!

 

[Mungo]

I have a very interesting book called Receiving The Power by two Presbyterian charismatics, Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray. I think they clarify confusion that arises in understanding the different operations of the Holy Spirit in our lives - or at least two of them. They are the Spirit 'within' and the Spirit 'upon'.

The Spirit 'within' is for the work of salvation - sanctification; growing in holiness.

The Spirit 'upon' is for works of power - charismatic gifts (preaching, prophecy etc.).

When 'receive' is used in scripture it could be for either of these two operations. Some discernment is needed and sometimes the text is not clear. One test is whether there is some manifestation of “the Spirit upon”.

Similarly being filled with the Holy Spirit could be for either of these two operations, although in this case the Greek is normally different. They say:
One Greek term, pleitho, is used consistently for the outer work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to a brief temporary filling. Another Greek word pleiroo (or its cognate pleires) is used consistently for the inner work of the Holy Spirit and usually refers to something that gets fuller and fuller until it is saturated. This refers to a state of being.

The distinction between pleitho and plieroo is more or less consistent, whether they speak of being filled with the Holy Spirit or anything else.

We receive the Holy Spirit in baptism for in the internal work of sanctification (the Spirit within).
We receive the Holy Spirit in the so called "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" for the external work - the charismatic gifts (the Spirit upon).

 

[amadeus]

In the Name of Jesus Christ...

To me this "dwelling in His presence" is what Jesus called being "in my name" or what we might call being "in His name".

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

The verse quoted above is just one of a multitude of verses found not only in the NT but also in the OT. How can we express exactly what it means? God can and does express it at times to us, but we are likely to have difficulty expressing to others who have never been there.

Many people meet regularly to worship God and when they do they should really all be in His name to get what God wants us to get when we gather together. Without the "in His name" it is likely no more than a social gathering of people and it may be good, but it certainly falls short of the "very good" that God made in the beginning.

We can be alone with God and "in His name" with no other person present and perhaps that is not the same as it is when other people are present who are also in His name, but they are certainly related. The difference I see is on the one hand preparing as an individual to become a part of the Body of the Christ, while the other is working together with other parts to get to that "fitly joined together" place of which Paul wrote. It is all necessary in God's plan and for anyone who hopes to be part of the end of God's plan.

For me the "in His name" comes sometimes with difficulty and sometimes so easily. The difference there is in me. How hard or easy is it to surrender it all to Him? My habitual time is in the morning when I first get up. I'm always the early bird so my wife sleeps on as I go into my study [2nd bedroom of 2 bedroom apartment] to spend my time with Him. I have my Bibles right there and I begin always with what people call the Lord's prayer [Matt 6:9-13 plus verses 14-15]. Some will call this a vain repetition, but I do not read them vainly. As I am reading I am always trying to concentrate on what the words are saying. I do the same thing with my regular Bible reading which follows the Lord's prayer. Before and after each chapter read I will also stop to simply talk [pray] to the Lord or to listen.

Where does the "in His name" come in? Anywhere and everywhere. For me it usually comes in an unknown tongue. My tongue directed by His Spirit. This is the "plus one" I mentioned above. This is my morning session. There are no other special times, but while I am on a Christian forum I will always look to prayer sub forums and pray for needs expressed there. When I read through or scan the threads/posts on the other sub forums I will also try to pray as I go. When I don't, I may speak when I should be silent or I may say something better left unsaid. During the course of my day I will sometimes pray as led to do so. Usually, if not always this is "in His name".

"In His name"? What is it? Where is it? Heaven! When not "in His name" I guess that sometimes I am in hell, but I don't go there as often as I once did. When in heaven, it may simply be first, but quite often I believe it is the second. I cannot say that I've been to 3rd but God is not finished with me yet.

Don't get worried about heaven here. For me from scripture there are three. See the tabernacle in the wilderness built according to God instructions to Moses. There is the outer court, the holy place and the holiest of holies. Of course there is a place outside of the outer court. The children of Israel lived there and always had to return there. But daily the sacrifices were being made for them and once a year the high priest entered that most holy place. Now we, everyone of us, can stay always in first heaven; we should be entering second heaven every day. As to third heaven... that is a place for those without sin.

Never mind all of the detail for every person may be different in the details for the Body of Christ consists of many parts with assorted functions... but all "in His name".

Then there is baptism in His name as per the verses cited above. Can a person be baptized or immersed in the name either with or without being also baptized or immersed in water [H2O]? No matter what the person doing the physical baptizing in is saying can not a person be either in the name or not in the name according as he is or is not led by the Holy Spirit at the moment?

Let us pray and think on these things! Help us dear Lord!

 

[Truther]

"Receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..."

Then to your reference:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" Acts 2:38-39

There is of course the answer to your question for anyone who is able to understand it. But... don't jump too fast with any conclusions because as you already know different folks here have their own different understandings and/or misunderstandings. So then one step at the time:

1) Repent!
2) Be baptized!
3) In the Name of Jesus Christ...
4) Receive the gift
5) to all...even as many as the Lord our God shall call

Awesome!!!!!

 

[Truther]

The power of the use of the name of Jesus for Spirit filled believers is seen right after using it for the remission of sins in Acts 2....

Acts 3
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong....


The power was not in the person, but in the name of Jesus used by the Spirit filled person.

 

[Truther]

The use of the power of the name of Jesus backfires against non Spirit filled persons....


13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

John 1:12
King James Version

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Was this power and official reception of Jesus in Acts 2, or some other way?


8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Does this debunk the modernists that say "I receive Jesus" without receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost per the Acts 2 experience?

Is there some new, modern way to receive Christ as one's personal savior and skip Acts?

Your questions or comments are welcome here.

Hi Truther:

for John 1:12 the word power there is more accurately translated authority! exousia means right, freedom or authority.

For Acts 1:8 that power is dynamis or strength or working power. We get our word "dynamo" from that.

One cannot be saved without the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is by the baptism, we become part of the body of Christ! that does not mean we will instantly have great boldness or manifestation of any gifts. Remember the book of acts is a book of history of the Acts of the Apostles and not necessarily a book for establishing doctrine.

We also need to remember that Jesus spent over 3 years working with the Apostles to prepare them to establish a brand new work- The Body of Christ /the church. What Jesus did for the apostles after their discipling and then the birth of the church will rarely be duplicated. I know of no place where this happened since. they went preaching to people who were very familiar with Jesus and saw HIm, heard him, seen Him perform miracles and teh three Messianic miracles. So this was rather a unique event.

 

[Truther]

Hi Truther:

for John 1:12 the word power there is more accurately translated authority! exousia means right, freedom or authority.

For Acts 1:8 that power is dynamis or strength or working power. We get our word "dynamo" from that.

One cannot be saved without the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is by the baptism, we become part of the body of Christ! that does not mean we will instantly have great boldness or manifestation of any gifts. Remember the book of acts is a book of history of the Acts of the Apostles and not necessarily a book for establishing doctrine.

We also need to remember that Jesus spent over 3 years working with the Apostles to prepare them to establish a brand new work- The Body of Christ /the church. What Jesus did for the apostles after their discipling and then the birth of the church will rarely be duplicated. I know of no place where this happened since. they went preaching to people who were very familiar with Jesus and saw HIm, heard him, seen Him perform miracles and teh three Messianic miracles. So this was rather a unique event.

Good morning.

The power was in the name of Jesus Christ to save or heal folks that the Spirit filled believers properly used.

When the heathen tried to use the name, it backfired on them.(Acts 19)

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was included in the new birth process to actually to remit sins, which the function of the Holy Ghost did not perform.(Acts 2:38)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Good morning.

The power was in the name of Jesus Christ to save or heal folks that the Spirit filled believers properly used.

When the heathen tried to use the name, it backfired on them.(Acts 19)

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was included in the new birth process to actually to remit sins, which the function of the Holy Ghost did not perform.(Acts 2:38)

Well there is water baptism which is for a believer after they are saved, and there is spirit baptism which happens the moment of regeneration.

We must also remember that any miraculous acts done , are, yes in the authority of Jesus, but still will be done only according to Gods purposes and gods Will.

Without any disrespect, God is not a vending machine where we command Him. He commands us!

 

[Truther]

Well there is water baptism which is for a believer after they are saved, and there is spirit baptism which happens the moment of regeneration.

We must also remember that any miraculous acts done , are, yes in the authority of Jesus, but still will be done only according to Gods purposes and gods Will.

Without any disrespect, God is not a vending machine where we command Him. He commands us!

It is impossible to be saved prior to having one's sins remitted per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as seen in Acts 2:38.

The Spirit's purpose is to lead one to the remission of sins and not to remit sins.

The spoken name of Jesus in the right hands is used by GOD(through a man) to save and heal.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is impossible to be saved prior to having one's sins remitted per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as seen in Acts 2:38.

The Spirit's purpose is to lead one to the remission of sins and not to remit sins.

The spoken name of Jesus in the right hands is used by GOD(through a man) to save and heal.

Water Baptism does not save.

God made that clear in eph. 2 and Romans 10. It is confidence in the death and resurrection of Jesus as the sole payment of sin.

We are saved by grace through faith and not works. Baptism is a work.

Water Baptism is a public testimony that we are saved and have committed ourself to follow Jesus. It is an act of identification.

And you are correct- God uses the name of Jesus! When He decides not us!

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 10:9-10
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Water Baptism doesn't save. It is a sign to the world that we are saved!

Acts 2 is a unique time in history! Remember the crowd who was being preached to. These were Jews who had seen or heard of Jesus! Jesus is the fulfilment of many of the OT prophecies.

Also I have been to Israel and Jerusalem. There is no body of water in near proximity of Jerusalem where 3,000 people could be baptized in a day by the 12 apostles.

 

[Truther]

Water Baptism does not save.

God made that clear in eph. 2 and Romans 10. It is confidence in the death and resurrection of Jesus as the sole payment of sin.

We are saved by grace through faith and not works. Baptism is a work.

Water Baptism is a public testimony that we are saved and have committed ourself to follow Jesus. It is an act of identification.

And you are correct- God uses the name of Jesus! When He decides not us!

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 10:9-10
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Water Baptism doesn't save. It is a sign to the world that we are saved!

Acts 2 is a unique time in history! Remember the crowd who was being preached to. These were Jews who had seen or heard of Jesus! Jesus is the fulfilment of many of the OT prophecies.

Also I have been to Israel and Jerusalem. There is no body of water in near proximity of Jerusalem where 3,000 people could be baptized in a day by the 12 apostles.

You went straight from the gospels to the epistles to the saved saints and illegally used their confirmation letters.

You officially skipped Acts.

Why?

 

[Addy]

It is impossible to be saved prior to having one's sins remitted per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as seen in Acts 2:38.

Are you saying that a person is not forgiven during the time of conversion UNTIL water baptism occurs? I was shocked to read this... Just want to make sure I got it right.... Not interested in arguing... Just curious.

 

[Truther]

Are you saying that a person is not forgiven during the time of conversion UNTIL water baptism occurs? I was shocked to read this... Just want to make sure I got it right.... Not interested in arguing... Just curious.

Yes.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is part of the conversion process.

It is our burial of the old man.

We are buried WITH Christ through baptism.

We cannot skip this process, no more than the O.T. priest could skip washing at the laver.

The results are equally terrible.

 

[Addy]

Yes.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is part of the conversion process.

It is our burial of the old man.

We are buried WITH Christ through baptism.

We cannot skip this process, no more than the O.T. priest could skip washing at the laver.

The results are equally terrible.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.... I can honestly say I have NEVER heard this before... but I am getting used to ONE JESUS and 20 million different answers... LOL

 

[Truther]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.... I can honestly say I have NEVER heard this before... but I am getting used to ONE JESUS and 20 million different answers... LOL

You're welcome.

All I am really advocating is adherence to Acts 2:38 as the lone prescription to sinners by Peter in verse 37.

All the new, fancy doctors are giving out the wrong prescriptions.

 

[Addy]

You're welcome.

All I am really advocating is adherence to Acts 2:38 as the lone prescription to sinners by Peter in verse 37.

All the new, fancy doctors are giving out the wrong prescriptions.

Well... I have seen over the years that people seem to believe what they want to believe... and I have no desire to get into any of it...
However... I had to say... your comment caused me shock... and I am not easily shocked.... Anyways... It's all good... Again.... thank you
for taking the time to answer my question.