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How important is it to belief in the trinitarian view of God?

Discussion in 'Christian Newbies' started by Fether, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Only 500? If one were true, they might have a leg to stand on. It is only if one accepts imposing trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text might one assert such an interpretation.

    Said differently, if you start with your dogma, even the shape of your cereal will seem to affirm the man-is-god thesis. :rolleyes:

    However, if you start with just the explicit word of God, you will reject the imposed interpretation. For instance, John 1:1 is not explicit and perhaps the less explicit, the more trinitarians passionately invoke it to support their unsubstantiated cause. Compare for instance, the fact that every epistle explicitly and exclusively identifies God the Father. There is not one single verse that states 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit.' This would be proof text to one not indoctrinated.

    It begs the question why is the inspired word of God explicit and exclusive on this point, over and over again IF it is not true? We all grasp "Frodo is the ring bearer" means he and he alone bears the ring as "the" means exclusive. But when it comes to THE nature of God, of WHO Scripture says God is, dat different. Thus, language, definition and logic are forever the mortal enemies of trinitarianism.
     
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Great point! Scripture is explicit in 1 COR 11:3 and 15:23-28 of Hierarchy, which undermines the "oneness" doctrine. They have to make a mockery of submission to mean you can submit to yourself. IF Jesus were God, it serves no purpose for Scripture to say that God (not even the trinitarian preferred substitute term Father but God) is the head of Christ.
     
  3. True Faith

    True Faith Active Member

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    I spent a very long time as a Trinitarian.. even taught the doctrine until I asked myself that one little question, then the veil was lifted...

    A trinitarian or even a Oneness believer will give you all the scripture you like to try and explain their lies but, they will never find a scripture that will ever say that God is capable of telling a lie...

    "That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:"
     
  4. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Have Never found one that The Almighty God (Father, SON, And
    The Holy Spirit) "have Ever lied!" BUT, there is ONE, like this:

    Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to
    lie to The Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
    Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was
    it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
    thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

    Sorry I lied - TWO verses :(

    Only 498 more to go, eh?...
     
  5. True Faith

    True Faith Active Member

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    it happens to the best of us...
    Anyone who believe that Jesus is God Himself or God the Son or even God in the flesh.. they call God a liar...
     
  6. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    I addressed this in a 7 part email to my pastor. This part was called Agency. It is a concept shown throughout the Bible.

    In another thread from last year, there was a deep dive into who talked to Moses and who destroyed Sodom and Gomorra, God or angels. There are passages for both. This is explained through the concept of agency. An agent (angels) act on the moral directive of another. It does not make them God.

    Isaiah said "I am the first and the last." Like Jesus, he is a prophet, an agent for God, speaking the words of God. It does not make him God. No one believes Isaiah was claiming to be a deity.

    In John 12:49, Jesus said, "I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it." This reveals that Jesus is not God but an agent for God, saying what he is told to say.
     
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  7. True Faith

    True Faith Active Member

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    Trinitarians will never every look at it that way...
     
  8. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Their doctrine will not allow them to understand the truth of Scripture that there is one God, he is Jesus' God, the Father of us all.

    And that brings me to the thread I started, Hallowed be thy Name. Personal names exist as a primary concept. "George" (Washington) exists independent of anyone else. "Father" is a secondary concept, it only exists in relation to another. "Father" is a relational name, not a personal name. "The Father of our Country" is how we relate to George.

    It is important to recognize that Jesus is NOT called the Son of the Father. Jesus is a personal name and "son" is how he relates to God. Obviously, his relationship to us is "brother" as he said repeatedly in Mark 3:31–35; Matthew 12:46–50; Luke 8:19–21. It's odd to insist that man who calls us brother ought to be called the Creator of the Universe, although he died, call him almighty God.
     
  9. True Faith

    True Faith Active Member

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    Yet trying to convince them is like trying to pull teeth from an alligator but we do this consistently because God Commands us to do so...
     
  10. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    ??? he (Isaiah) did??? WHERE is that; I cannot find it? BUT, Scripture Has:

    Isa_41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, Calling the generations from the beginning? I The LORD, The First, and with The Last; I AM He.

    Isa_44:6 Thus Saith The LORD The KING of Israel, and His Redeemer
    The LORD
    of hosts; I AM The First, And I AM The Last; and beside Me
    there is no God.

    Isa_48:12 Hearken unto ME, O Jacob and Israel, MY Called;
    I AM HE; I AM The First, I Also AM The Last."

    And, of course, Matching:

    HE, WHO Spoke The Above!:

    Rev 1:8 "I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, Saith The
    LORD, Which is, and Which was, and Which is to come, The Almighty
    .

    Rev_1:11 Saying, I AM Alpha and Omega, The First And The Last...

    Rev_1:17 And when I saw HIM, I fell at HIS Feet as dead. And
    HE Laid HIS Right Hand Upon me, Saying Unto me, Fear not;
    I AM The First And The Last:

    The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Himself, Correct?:​

    Rev_2:8
    ...These things Saith The First And The Last, Which Was DEAD, and Is Alive;

    Rev_22:13
    I AM Alpha and Omega, The Beginning And The End, The First And The Last."

    Thus, IF Isaiah "SAID he was 'The First And The Last'" then he would be
    "taking [stealing?]" The TITLE That RightFULLY Belongs Only TO:

    The LORD JESUS CHRIST (Almighty God),
    Correct?

    490 to go?

    Not Convinced? Then, please Note:
    God Never Commanded trinitarians to Convince anybody of anything, Since:

    1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; But God Gave the increase.
    +
    God, The Holy Spirit, Is "The Convicter (Convincer/Reprover?)":

    Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you The Truth; It is expedient for you that I
    go away: for if I go not away, The Comforter [The Holy Spirit] will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I Will Send HIM Unto you.

    Joh 16:8 And When HE is come, HE WILL REPROVE the world of sin,
    and of righteousness, and of judgment:"

    Amen? IF God, The (Omnipresent) Holy Spirit, is an impersonal force,
    electrical power, or whatever critics CALL HIM, Then what does that idea
    say
    about the critic ITSELF? = Is that critic ALSO an impersonal entity???

    GRACE And Peace...
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  11. True Faith

    True Faith Active Member

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    Good then... Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do if not his own???.. do this without using the Bible...
     
  12. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    .
    Re: How important is it to belief in the trinitarian view of God?

    I'm told by Deut 6:4 that God is a singularity. But until the 'us" and the
    "our" of Gen 1:26 and Gen 3:22 are positively identified; I will continue to
    insist that God wears more than one hat. Trinitarians max their count at
    three. But according to Ezekiel's depiction of God at 1:1-28, there appears
    to me more to reckon with than three.

    Much of the Bible describes God in physical terms that the extent of our
    perception is able to grasp. But the fact remains that no one has seen God in
    person. More and more I am suspecting that He is an extremely alien being
    who has never let anyone see him in person due to concerns for our safety.

    "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live. Then The Lord
    said: Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
    and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the
    cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by. Then I
    will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be
    seen." (Ex 33:20-23)

    In mythology, people turned stone when gazing upon Medusa's face. I
    suspect that were folks allowed even so much as a glimpse of God's face,
    they would be startled enough by His appearance to choke and drop dead to
    the floor because His is a composite of faces, sort of like the many lenses
    that make up the eye of a fly.

    But even that description is inadequate to describe God's appearance in
    person seeing as there exists nothing in nature resembling its maker.

    "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven
    above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below." (Ex 20:4)

    "Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when The Lord spoke
    to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make
    for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male
    or female, the likeness of any animal that is on the earth or the likeness of
    any winged bird that flies in the air, the likeness of anything that creeps on
    the ground or the likeness of any fish that is in the water beneath the earth.

    . . . And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when you see the
    sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, you feel driven to
    worship them and serve them, which The Lord your God has given to all the
    peoples under the whole heaven as a heritage." (Deut 4:15-19)
    _
     
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  13. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Not important at all because the 'Trinity' thing is just a pretty play on words cooked up by the catholic church.
    Fact is, God and Jesus are like the two halves of an oyster sharing the same guts- the holy spirit..:)
    Jesus made it clear many times that he wasn't God, e.g.-
    "A certain ruler asked him, 'Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?'
    'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered, “No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
    "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
    "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

    And to cap it all, God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matthew 17:5)
     
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  14. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    VERY Important, As Confirmed [not Romanism, But Biblical] By:

    500 Plain And Clear Scriptures The LORD JESUS Is Almighty God!

    Amen.

    GRACE And Peace...
     
  15. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    This is wrong on many counts.

    Everyone understands what "the trinity means". It's not just Catholic doctrine.

    "God and Jesus are like the two halves of an oyster sharing the same guts- the holy spirit." is not scriptural. If it is, show us where.

    If you don't understand that Jesus and God the Father are one then you have missed a fundamental truth of the Bible. Jesus said "The Father and I are one.” John 10:30 That is abundantly clear!
     
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  16. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Jesus simply meant he and God are singing from the same song sheet..:)
    He made it perfectly clear several times that he WASN'T God, as I pointed out in my sublime post #193,
    for example-
    "Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
     
  17. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Then please [IF you somehow can] Correct the Following:

    2Co_5:21 "For He hath Made Him [Jesus] to be sin for us, Who

    Knew no sin;

    that we might be made The Righteousness of God in Him."

    Is it a) Jesus is not God, and "knew SIN" [Was "not good"]. OR:

    B) The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Good, "Knew NO sin," And IS God!?

    Please don't be sublime, just humbly Correct ALL of These Also, ok?:

    500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is God!

    GRACE And Peace...
     
  18. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no offence but I don't have the time or inclination to unravel your tangled furball of quotes, I want to watch my new 'Alien Hunter' DVD..;)
    And speaking of correction, when Simon said- “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God”, Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matthew 16:13-17)
    Why didn't Jesus correct him and say "Wrong answer, I AM God"?..;)
     
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  19. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Oh, ok. That's a New one on me = I have NEVER heard:

    "ALL Profitable Scripture" called such wickedness before :(

    May The LORD Have MERCY!
     
  20. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    I believe Jesus was the Son of God and not God himself, so I guess that makes me a world-beater..:)
    "Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
     
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