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Featured How Important Truth?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by brakelite, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    How Important is Truth?
    I am the Way, the Truth,, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father except by Me.

    50 odd years ago there was a church in I think the city of Indianapolis called the Peoples Temple. The minister there was a gifted and charismatic preacher, hugely popular, endorsed and recommended by some very important and influential people including congressmen and senators and J Edgar Hoover himself (of FBI fame).
    The people of his congregation were ordinary people like you and me, searching for a spiritual home in which to worship and bring their families.
    One such person presented to the minister one day some concerns over a particular doctrinal matter. It appeared to the parishioner that the minister’s teaching differed somewhat from the Bible and the church member was asking for an explanation. The minister’s response was something along these lines: “Don’t worry about that, what is really important is people. Here in our church we believe that loving one another is more important than a few doctrines. Love is what we are about here.”
    The minister’s name was the Rev. Jim Jones. Most of the 900 members of his congregation died in Guyana after a mass suicide from drinking poisoned cool-ade.
    Folks, truth is important.

    20 years ago I shared my faith with my brother-in-law. For 3 hours we poured over the scriptures, which brought answers to his every objection to my faith. Not long after he went overseas with his family chasing a dream. He returned 10 years later penniless, the dream unrealised, in debt, and blind. Yet stubbornly cleaving to the dream.
    Folks, truth is important.

    20 years ago an uncle and aunty of mine came to stay with us for a while. They witnessed our lifestyle, heard our prayers, saw what God had done for and in us. Within a few weeks of leaving my uncle had a heart attack and died.
    Folks, truth is important.

    18 years ago I was discussing doctrinal differences with my Christian employer. He agreed that my and my churches’ understanding of scripture made sense and was biblically consistent. Two weeks later he had a heart attack right in front of me, and despite over two hours of CPR , he died.
    Folks, truth is important.

    12 years ago I was invited by a neighbour to participate in a series of Bible studies at their home, based on the well known and popular ‘40 days of purpose’ by Rick Warren. Early on I noticed some teachings of Warren’s with which I disagreed. I prepared a bible study and shared this with my hosts on another evening. He and his wife both agreed with my view, but asked that I not bring it up with the other participants, saying “what is important is people, let us just love one another”. Sound familiar? One month after the end of the series, my neighbour had a heart attack, and died.
    Folks, truth is important.

    Apart from perhaps the Jim Jones saga, I am not suggesting in any way that those deaths were a result of rejecting truth. The point I wish to stress in this thread is two-fold. One, we must embrace truth to it’s absolute fullest while we can-for we do not know what tomorrow may bring. Not only in respect to our mortality here on earth, but also in respect to the soon coming of our Saviour to bring an end to this sin-sick world. Second point is by way of a challenge. How important to you is truth? Have you received a love of the truth, such a love that falsehood has become offensive to you? Such a love that a lie becomes an abomination? Do you love truth as an eternal principle, or do you love that which you believe to be true. There is a huge difference between loving TRUTH, as a principle of life, and loving the doctrine, practice, or tradition you currently believe in, thinking it to be true. Because unless you love TRUTH, your doctrine which you hold so dear could very well be a lie. ( 2Thess. 2:10-12.)
    This is a salvation issue folks. The doctrines I was discussing with those now deceased were important. They are hotly debated on these forums every day. Let me state unequivocally, that if the weight of scriptural evidence is not in your favour with respect to any particular doctrine, you are wrong not to at least investigate the possibility that you could be in error. And if on concluding your investigation the weight of evidence still stands against you, then you are wrong if you do not accept and adopt a different stance.
    British philosopher W.K.Clifford once said,” It is always wrong, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.”
    Folks, truth is important. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You reject truth, you reject the author and foundation of truth. Unless you are sincerely and honestly willing to give up any current belief if the scriptures so direct, then you do not love truth, and the very real danger there is, as Paul warns in 2 Thess., you will accept a lie, even the antichrist himself.
    How important is Truth?
    It is the Cornerstone of the church. It is the Foundation upon which rests everything we build. It is the Rock which is immoveable and supports our faith. It is the Vine through which we are fed. It is the Bread which nourishes us and sanctifies us.
    TRUTH. Embrace it. Love it. Cleave to it.
    If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
    And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    Regards
    Brakelite.
     
  2. Acolyte

    Acolyte Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I didn't know Jim Jones started in Indiana. And with the list of people backing him, I would have never checked him out.
    I remember those terrible pictures. :(
    Very well said sir.
    Blessings
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou.
     
  4. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Revelation is the rock of our foundation, Christ spoke it,

    Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    what is truth when it is mixed with lies...

    what was it the devil said to Jesus

    Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

    just a few words of truth and the deceiver has a hold.

    as you said there is only one way, what does He have to do with mens religions.
     
  5. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Indeed...1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    By rejecting the written word you are doing no better than the Papacy when they burned people to death in the dark ages because they had a page or a few pieces of scripture. Thus why they were called the dark ages. I agree that truth mixed with error is bad, even highly dangerous because a little poison is undetectable. Which is why we cannot trust in our senses or feelings.
    Yes, revelation is essential. Yes, our trust is in God, and Him only. Which is why it is imperative we pray and commit ourselves to His guidance when we read His word. And just as He guided the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, opening up to them the scriptures, so He will do so for all those who trust Him. But the Spirit of God, and I cannot emphasise this enough, will never contradict what He has previously considered good to share with our predecessors.
    Are you not disqualifying the Bible as a divine revelation and exalting personal revelation above the Bible?
     
  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    To me, the way some preachers/church 'leaders' go about raising money and seeking endorsement reminds me of politicians in primary season...
     
  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    They both work for the same state, both have signed legal documents to that effect, etc
     
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  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    An authority on love? What is clearly seen is a man high on pride. Some quotes of Jones:

    • The young preacher once threw his Bible to the floor and yelled at his associates, "Too many people are looking at this instead of looking at me!"
    • If you're born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, then you're born in sin. But if you're born in socialism, you're not born in sin.
      • Jones, Jim. "The Letter Killeth." Original material reprint. Department of Religious Studies. San Diego State
    • "Love is the only weapon." Shit! Bullshit! Martin Luther King died with love! Kennedydied talking about something he couldn't even understand, some kind of generalized love, and he never even backed it up. He was shot down. Bullshit! "Love is the only weapon with which I've got to fight." I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I've got my claws. I've got cutlasses. I've got guns. I've got dynamite. I've got a hell of a lot to fight! I'll fight! I'll fight!
      • Mass meeting in Jonestown, featured in NPR documentary Father Cares
    • Son of a bitchin’ no good lousy ass anarchistic capitalist bitch. That’s what I say about my relatives, but you won’t say it.
      • "[1]" FBI No. Q265 (17 October 1978)
    • If my wife said, I’m not going to be a communist, I’d say, well, forget it, by God, I’ll forget you too.
      • "[2]" FBI No. Q265 (17 October 1978)
    • I'd like to choose my own kind of death, for a change. I'm tired of being tormented to hell. Tired of it.
    • If we can't live in peace, then let's die in peace.
    • Take our life from us. We laid it down. We got tired. We didn't commit suicide. We committed an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world.
      • Last words on "Death Tape" FBI No. Q042 (18 November 1978)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
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  9. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    It is the bible you read, and yes I read your little story and looked for that stumbling block that snare where you take people from grace by faith to.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    You are just a christian playing at being a Jew, the law is works of the flesh not faith, law abiding citizens hey, show us 1. I can, Jesus, the only one.

    Heaven will be filled with people who believed God in faith who did nothing to earn there way, just believe.
     
  10. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    You cannot have one without the other
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. And God has given us the Word of Truth, along with Christ who is Truth. The spiritual war that is going on (and has been going on) is essentially between lies and the truth. But only the truth makes one free.
     
  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    This is easily discernible
     
  13. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    God has that very same problem... " I am the way the truth and the life says the Lord"
     
  14. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    What is it that you don't like about God's commandments? Do they highlight your resistance to how God governs his universe? Does orderly and decent conduct offend you and is faith for you that term by which any sin can be covered?

    Your charge of 'playing at being a Jew' is ignorant and pathetic to the max. How is it you do not see that?
    Your position is treason against faith all the while claiming you are its supporter.

    'the law is works of the flesh' you say. Do you really think that God gave his commandments in flame and thunder, writing it with his own finger to then say ooops, I made a mistake, I think i'll withdraw my rules of universal order because it is works of the flesh??

    Works of the flesh are works that have the mindset of impressing God with whatever we imagine. Men love their imaginations. In your imagination faith is the doorway of self expression which in essence is anarchy as it dismisses God's Law.
     
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  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Gal_3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

    yes men love their vain imagination, making the works of Christ of none effect...
     
  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Anarchy is not "no rules" as is so often forwarded, but "no rulers," per 1Sam8.
    What you describe--and what mjr is plainly forwarding--is Chaos, not Anarchy, wadr

    not sure why a Christian would even engage with someone saying
    "don't pick up your cross and follow,"
    but that is not my biz I guess
     
  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe we should throw out the word instead of encouraging others toward it? Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Hearing what by the word? Hearing God’s voice? So then faith comes by hearing God’s voice and hearing God’s voice by the word. Acts 13:27
    [27] For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him .

    He still has to be the one who speaks. There are so many voices in the world it gets confusing. If our husband gave us, “Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.”

    why would we not want to hear what He has to say? How would we know what is our of imagination and what is of God...if we don’t read and hear what He who is higher than our own reasoning says? How would we know about the armour to put on without God disclosing it to us?
     
  18. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying we shouldn’t lean on our own understanding?
     
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  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Jesus broke many civil "laws," and actually provided a template for the definition of "Law" for us by so doing. So while you don't realize it, you are really arguing against your own point here mjr, I guess bc you think as long as you say LALALALA loudly enough whenever other Scripture and even Christ assure you in many places that you must keep the Law, you can just crap all over it in your usual manner
    Scripture assures us that you once again do not have the first clue of what you are talking about mjr, which is why you cannot post any Scripture to that effect, while I can blow that away with Scripture, and imo you already know it, right? You aren't ignorant iow, just evil?

    you are apparently a deliberate liar who does not even possess the grace to admit when you are wrong, I guess bc you never have been prolly, and after you have said "no one needs to pick up their cross and follow Christ" in a forum there could only be one reason why you are allowed to continue to post in it i guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    I guess we'll find out, huh :)
    according to Scripture, not primary I guess, like we might think tho
     
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