How is it that the Spirit of truth "will not speak on His own authority?"

[ScottA]

What would you say: How is it that the Spirit of truth "will not speak on His own authority?"

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[lforrest]

What would you say: How is it that the Spirit of truth "will not speak on His own authority?"

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

I figured it was to redirect the glory to the Son. As otherwise if he speaks of his own accord the resulting praise would belong to him, and that is not what he desires.

 

[ScottA]

I figured it was to redirect the glory to the Son. As otherwise if he speaks of his own accord the resulting praise would belong to him, and that is not what he desires.

Yes, with the assumption that the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit...and therefore God, it is a curious statement to say the least. With more study or consideration, it would seem to indicate some sort of comparable authority that is expressed regarding the Son, whom is also God, and yet considers Himself below the Father, even saying "The Father is greater than I".

 

[twinc]

Yes, with the assumption that the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit...and therefore God, it is a curious statement to say the least. With more study or consideration, it would seem to indicate some sort of comparable authority that is expressed regarding the Son, whom is also God, and yet considers Himself below the Father, even saying "The Father is greater than I".

in His humanity He said this not in His divinity - just as you would say this about your father even though he would be no more or greater than you in his humanity but one with you - Jesus was the word not the HS or the Father imho - twinc

 

[lforrest]

Yes, with the assumption that the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit...and therefore God, it is a curious statement to say the least. With more study or consideration, it would seem to indicate some sort of comparable authority that is expressed regarding the Son, whom is also God, and yet considers Himself below the Father, even saying "The Father is greater than I".

I agree, and this arrangement would seem to indicate the authority given the Holy Spirit is below that of the Son.

 

[DPMartin]

well scott one might look at it in context :


Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.



hence the Spirit shall receive of the Lord's that is the Father's that is also the Lord's, therefore not for the Spirit but for the Lord. so the Spirit acts under the authority of God just as a body acts under the authority of the life that's in it.

you presence is your body, as God's Presence is His Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

in His humanity He said this not in His divinity - just as you would say this about your father even though he would be no more or greater than you in his humanity but one with you - Jesus was the word not the HS or the Father imho - twinc

That is a great explanation. Thank you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What would you say: How is it that the Spirit of truth "will not speak on His own authority?"

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Psalm 31:5
[5] Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.

John 15:26
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Spirit of truth testifies of the Son.

John 16:13-14
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[101G]

Yes, with the assumption that the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit...and therefore God, it is a curious statement to say the least. With more study or consideration, it would seem to indicate some sort of comparable authority that is expressed regarding the Son, whom is also God, and yet considers Himself below the Father, even saying "The Father is greater than I".

twinc gave a good answer to the greater than I. but consider this. is this GREATER in quality, or quantity. yes in quantity, (because he's in flesh). but notice this. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". now, think is the servent greater than his Master? listen. John 13:16 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him". so how can the Lord Jesus say in John 14:12 "and greater works than these shall he do?". but the Lord Jesus said this also. John 7:18 "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him". so the Holy Spirit was "SENT". so he cannot speak of himself. BUT................. John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you".

Now question, who is better to speak your own words than you? ... that's right you.

PCY.

 

[ScottA]

Psalm 31:5
[5] Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.

John 15:26
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Spirit of truth testifies of the Son.

John 16:13-14
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Yes. Thanks. It's just such and interesting play on "authority" between God and Himself, via the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

twinc gave a good answer to the greater than I. but consider this. is this GREATER in quality, or quantity. yes in quantity, (because he's in flesh). but notice this. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". now, think is the servent greater than his Master? listen. John 13:16 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him". so how can the Lord Jesus say in John 14:12 "and greater works than these shall he do?". but the Lord Jesus said this also. John 7:18 "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him". so the Holy Spirit was "SENT". so he cannot speak of himself. BUT................. John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you".

Now question, who is better to speak your own words than you? ... that's right you.

PCY.

That's great - the authority goes to Him whose name it is accredited to! This is truly a fascinating aspect of the Trinity.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes. Thanks. It's just such and interesting play on "authority" between God and Himself, via the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

They are the same. One God. Consider the ark and the dove. A passage that spoke to me a while back:

1 Chronicles 22:7-12
[7] And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God: [8] But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. [9] Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. [11] Now, my son, the Lord be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the Lord thy God, as he hath said of thee. [12] Only the Lord give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the Lord thy God.

Which has greater authority: War or Peace?

 

[brakelite]

Everywhere in scripture we see the Spirit spoken of as belonging to God. The Spirit of God...the Spirit of Christ...He sent His Spirit...I will fill you with My Spirit...etc etc, therefore it is only natural that there should be a sense of submission on the part of the Spirit to the Father. As for the Father being greater than Jesus, this does not only apply to His humanity...He was a Son from eternity...when scripture says that God sent His only begotten Son, then I believe He had a Son to send. Therefore the authority always rests with the Father, the great source of all things. See 1 Cor. 8:6 Thus we accept what scripture reveals without going beyond what is revealed and assuming or guessing about the nature of God...we are on holy ground so we need to tread lightly when it comes to defining the indefinable.

 

[101G]

Everywhere in scripture we see the Spirit spoken of as belonging to God. The Spirit of God...the Spirit of Christ...He sent His Spirit...I will fill you with My Spirit...etc etc, therefore it is only natural that there should be a sense of submission on the part of the Spirit to the Father. As for the Father being greater than Jesus, this does not only apply to His humanity...He was a Son from eternity...when scripture says that God sent His only begotten Son, then I believe He had a Son to send. Therefore the authority always rests with the Father, the great source of all things. See 1 Cor. 8:6 Thus we accept what scripture reveals without going beyond what is revealed and assuming or guessing about the nature of God...we are on holy ground so we need to tread lightly when it comes to defining the indefinable.

GINOLJC to all, this was an interesting post.
U said, "Everywhere in scripture we see the Spirit spoken of as belonging to God. The Spirit of God...the Spirit of Christ...He sent His Spirit...I will fill you with My Spirit...etc etc ". I have a question, "if the Spirit of God is "NOT" God himself, but belong to God, what is God then?. and if one say the Spirit of God is a separate person from God is that's not two Spirits? (see John 4:24a).
three, if the Son was from "ETERNITY" meaning "EVERLASTING" having no beginning, and no end, how is he his begotten son?. that's if you're speaking biologically. if not please explain.


Thanks in advance,

PCY.

 

[amadeus]

What would you say: How is it that the Spirit of truth "will not speak on His own authority?"

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

What I see or understand is that as we partake of the flesh of Jesus [the dead written scripture] we provide something that the Holy Spirit can quicken as it is heard [eaten]. That is to say, it is brought to Life within us as God sees the need for it by the quickening of the Holy Spirit as we open ourselves up as a willing vessel for it. This accomplishes the growth/increase of the new man in us. The authority is really then two fold. The Holy Spirit cannot work within us to do God's work unless we allow it. [This is Paul writes: "Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19]

The authority to do any work within us ultimately is God's. But God gave every man the dominion to make his own decisions [only two choices, God's Way or our own] and each man must relinquish that dominion for God to work in us.

What we are doing is eating the flesh [dead scripture] and drinking the blood [Holy Spirit] of Jesus. In the beginning of our walk God will keep us in balance because He understands our frailty but in time we must work on the balance. Too many people eat a lot of the flesh and do not drink enough of the blood and we wonder why we have thousands of denominations all supposedly based on the Bible.

 

[brakelite]

GINOLJC to all, this was an interesting post.
U said, "Everywhere in scripture we see the Spirit spoken of as belonging to God. The Spirit of God...the Spirit of Christ...He sent His Spirit...I will fill you with My Spirit...etc etc ". I have a question, "if the Spirit of God is "NOT" God himself, but belong to God, what is God then?. and if one say the Spirit of God is a separate person from God is that's not two Spirits? (see John 4:24a).
three, if the Son was from "ETERNITY" meaning "EVERLASTING" having no beginning, and no end, how is he his begotten son?. that's if you're speaking biologically. if not please explain.


Thanks in advance,

PCY.

I do not believe the holy Spirit to be a person in the same way we understand the Father and Son to be persons. I believe the holy Spirit to be the omnipresence of the Father and the Son.God is Spirit. Christ is filled with the Spirit of His Father. Paul says there is ONE God, one Lord, one Spirit.
The nature of the holy Spirit is a mystery. A mystery we have no business in attempting to define.
When Jesus promised to send the holy Spirit to the disciples after His ascension, what else did He say? Did He not say that HE would never forsake them, nor leave them? Did He say that HE would not leave them confortless?
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The disciples were promised, that wherever they went, even to the farthest corner of the globe, Christ would be with them. Yet we also know that Christ has a physical body, and He officiates as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. Thus He cannot be everywhere at once in bodily form, but He can be with us all by His Spirit. Still in His humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally, but by sending His Spirit, divested of humanity, and independent thereof, Christ can be with us in the person of His omnipresent Spirit.
It is not a 3rd individual person who abides in us...it is Christ in us, the hope of glory.

You ask, what is God then? The scriptures tell us plainly, but by wanting to define Him according to human intellect, we invented the trinity. 3 co-equal co-eternal coeval persons of one indivisble substance making one God. But scripture tells otherwise. Scripture speaks plainly... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor.8:6
Jesus said And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3
Jesus even said that the Father was His God. And Paul says that the time is coming when throughout all future eternity the Son will be in subjection to the Father as He was before time began. This does not remove one jot or tittle from the divinity of Christ, but to the contrary, establishes it. Like Father like Son. Just as it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell (Coll.1:19)....and that as Jesus proclaimed as evidence of His divinity For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (John 5:26) so Jesus, as the natural begotten Son of His Father, has inherited all the divine attributes of His Father. The Father however, as the one and only true God, remains first in rank and authority. In all other things, Christ is His equal. And the Spirit is their presence, their omnipresent personality.
The trinity destroys any ontological relationship between Father and Son,and makes the Spirit much more that is revealed. Yet the Father and Son, that entire concept of the Father giving His Son for the human race, is the foundation of our Christian faith. Believing that Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of His Father (from the days of eternity [Micah 5:2margin]which does not mean forever) is the cornerstone as per scripture. (Matt.16:16; John 6:69). John's gospel was written for the very purpose that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. As you said above, if Christ existed from all eternity, then how can He be a Son? If there was not a time, even as far back as it is impossible to figure, that God brought forth a Son, then Abraham and Isaac is a farce...the whole concept of a Father giving His Son is a farce....the whole Father and Son concept turns into a metaphorical confusion. But what we are told unequivocally is...For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. (John 16:27)
Everyone without exception describes the trinity doctrine as a mystery. (Note, there is a difference between the trinity/Godhead and the actual doctrine of the trinity). Those who devised the doctrine such as Athanasius described it as a mystery. They could not explain it clearly to others,
and no-one since has clearly understood it. It remains a mystery, and yet we are called heretics for not believing in it!? What is so difficult in simply cleaving to what we are told in scripture about the nature of God as I have briefly done above, and not formulating the nature of God into a man-made doctrine we use as a test of orthodoxy and fellowship?

 

[brakelite]

"In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made".
It was the Father who created all things through His word. It was the not the word, Christ, who created all things through the Father. It was not the Father who vacated heaven and became flesh and dwelt amongt us. It was the word....the Son of God. (John 1:14) Note that John wrote that the word was with God...meaning that the Son was with the Father. The "Word" and "God" are spoken of as being two separate personages. It is only reasonable to accept that someone cannot be the same personage as the one they are with. A clear distinction should lways be made between these two divine persons. 1 Cor. 8:6 is the same as what Paul said in Coll. 1:17. The entire concept of the plan of salvation was established by the Father that through His Son man may once again have communion with God. Throughout scripture the Father has the primacy, the Son the intermediary.
"I do nothing of myself, the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father. I seek not my own glory, but the glory of Him who sent Me."

 

[twinc]

"In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made".
It was the Father who created all things through His word. It was the not the word, Christ, who created all things through the Father. It was not the Father who vacated heaven and became flesh and dwelt amongt us. It was the word....the Son of God. (John 1:14) Note that John wrote that the word was with God...meaning that the Son was with the Father. The "Word" and "God" are spoken of as being two separate personages. It is only reasonable to accept that someone cannot be the same personage as the one they are with. A clear distinction should lways be made between these two divine persons. 1 Cor. 8:6 is the same as what Paul said in Coll. 1:17. The entire concept of the plan of salvation was established by the Father that through His Son man may once again have communion with God. Throughout scripture the Father has the primacy, the Son the intermediary.
"I do nothing of myself, the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father. I seek not my own glory, but the glory of Him who sent Me."

if only we would desist from trying to take heaven by storm and be still and know that maybe just maybe the son is greater than even the Father or at least equal for consider that your father is no older than you because he only became your father when you were born and there cannot be a Father without a son hence the words of wisdom" he who does not have the son does not have the Father" - he who has the son has both the father and the son" - twinc

 

[brakelite]

if only we would desist from trying to take heaven by storm and be still and know that maybe just maybe the son is greater than even the Father or at least equal for consider that your father is no older than you because he only became your father when you were born and there cannot be a Father without a son hence the words of wisdom" he who does not have the son does not have the Father" - he who has the son has both the father and the son" - twinc

"My Father is greater than I"....." Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God".
Not trying to storm heaven, but being very careful, particularly as we are dealing with the nature of the Almighty, to cleave only to that which has been revealed, and not go beyond. I agree with you that the Son MUST be equal to the Father, for it pleased the Father that in Hm (Christ) should all fullness (of the Godhead) dwell. But let us not think that the normal relation and understanding of primacy and source, as revealed in scripture as pertaining to the Father alone, can be ignored.
"Being still" and then suggesting we 'conjecture that maybe'...nuh.

 

[101G]

I do not believe the holy Spirit to be a person in the same way we understand the Father and Son to be persons. I believe the holy Spirit to be the omnipresence of the Father and the Son.God is Spirit. Christ is filled with the Spirit of His Father. Paul says there is ONE God, one Lord, one Spirit.
The nature of the holy Spirit is a mystery. A mystery we have no business in attempting to define.
When Jesus promised to send the holy Spirit to the disciples after His ascension, what else did He say? Did He not say that HE would never forsake them, nor leave them? Did He say that HE would not leave them confortless?
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The disciples were promised, that wherever they went, even to the farthest corner of the globe, Christ would be with them. Yet we also know that Christ has a physical body, and He officiates as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. Thus He cannot be everywhere at once in bodily form, but He can be with us all by His Spirit. Still in His humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally, but by sending His Spirit, divested of humanity, and independent thereof, Christ can be with us in the person of His omnipresent Spirit.
It is not a 3rd individual person who abides in us...it is Christ in us, the hope of glory.

You ask, what is God then? The scriptures tell us plainly, but by wanting to define Him according to human intellect, we invented the trinity. 3 co-equal co-eternal coeval persons of one indivisble substance making one God. But scripture tells otherwise. Scripture speaks plainly... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor.8:6
Jesus said And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3
Jesus even said that the Father was His God. And Paul says that the time is coming when throughout all future eternity the Son will be in subjection to the Father as He was before time began. This does not remove one jot or tittle from the divinity of Christ, but to the contrary, establishes it. Like Father like Son. Just as it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell (Coll.1:19)....and that as Jesus proclaimed as evidence of His divinity For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (John 5:26) so Jesus, as the natural begotten Son of His Father, has inherited all the divine attributes of His Father. The Father however, as the one and only true God, remains first in rank and authority. In all other things, Christ is His equal. And the Spirit is their presence, their omnipresent personality.
The trinity destroys any ontological relationship between Father and Son,and makes the Spirit much more that is revealed. Yet the Father and Son, that entire concept of the Father giving His Son for the human race, is the foundation of our Christian faith. Believing that Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of His Father (from the days of eternity [Micah 5:2margin]which does not mean forever) is the cornerstone as per scripture. (Matt.16:16; John 6:69). John's gospel was written for the very purpose that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. As you said above, if Christ existed from all eternity, then how can He be a Son? If there was not a time, even as far back as it is impossible to figure, that God brought forth a Son, then Abraham and Isaac is a farce...the whole concept of a Father giving His Son is a farce....the whole Father and Son concept turns into a metaphorical confusion. But what we are told unequivocally is...For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. (John 16:27)
Everyone without exception describes the trinity doctrine as a mystery. (Note, there is a difference between the trinity/Godhead and the actual doctrine of the trinity). Those who devised the doctrine such as Athanasius described it as a mystery. They could not explain it clearly to others,
and no-one since has clearly understood it. It remains a mystery, and yet we are called heretics for not believing in it!? What is so difficult in simply cleaving to what we are told in scripture about the nature of God as I have briefly done above, and not formulating the nature of God into a man-made doctrine we use as a test of orthodoxy and fellowship?

First thanks for the post, I read it all. second you said, "Yet we also know that Christ has a physical body, and He officiates as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. Thus He cannot be everywhere at once in bodily form, but He can be with us all by His Spirit".
now I want you to read exactly what you just said. "he, (Jesus is with us by his Spirit). if Jesus is with us by his Spirit is not the Spirit of Jesus, is Jesus himself? yes or no.

second, you said that he, Jesus, officiates as our High Priest. Good, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous".

do not the word "advocate" means "comforter". let's see.
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

so, do not the Lord Jesus officiates as our comforter too?. Remember you said he is with us by his Spirit. and gave the book and chapter for this. John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

and he did come, in Spirit. so the Spirit is a PERSON, Jesus the Christ. do you agree yes or no?.

if not sure, please re-read this post again for clarity.

Looking to hear from you.

PCY.