How many Angels of the Lord are there?

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Mr E

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I guess the Jews believed in guardian angels assigned to them. :innocent::innocent:

From a spiritual perspective scripture associates angels with stars.

He held seven stars in his right hand

The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lampstands is this...

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.


That is with respect to the seven that are of the Presence. Are there others? Yep. One for everyone.

I will multiply your descendants so they will be as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands.

There's a reason we think of offspring as descendants.
 
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Nancy

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Speaking of dancing, I got up from my feverish and weak state to go downstairs and get some water. The Typhoid Mary who got me sick and worried me to death for days is feeling better and is up, in her chair, watching the news. The clip is of the mayor of Chicago dancing around in the street with a bunch of people celebrating something called lunar new year. Then the talking heads are saying how people are saying it’s “tone deaf” to be doing that when the city and it’s people are struggling with so many things. But the only thought in my feverish mind is, I think I should know it but I don’t remember, when I get back up all those stairs, I’m going to google lunar new year, who celebrates it? So I did. Chinese.

I know people who are not very observational (over time) because other things come along and make them forget previous things, will gnash at me, but all I’ve seen for years, coupled with a very short dream I had years ago, make me think there are far, far more officials who are compromised and blackmailed by “other countries rulers” than we know.

edit: listen carefully. Chinese people are NOT the CCP. The CCP are corrupt and awful men bent on domination.
Are you sick? A cold, Covid?
 

Nancy

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From a spiritual perspective scripture associates angels with stars.






That is with respect to the seven that are of the Presence. Are there others? Yep. One for everyone.

I will multiply your descendants so they will be as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands.

There's a reason we think of offspring as descendants.
Good one. Yes indeed..."the heavenly body's" :) His wonders are endless!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Are you sick? A cold, Covid?
Don’t know. Shaky/weak, severe tiredness. Slight fever/chills rollercoaster. It’s the…third or fourth time in about…a year? For a person who almost NEVER is sick.
 

The Learner

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The precise identity of the “angel of the Lord” is not given in the Bible. However, there are many important “clues” to his identity. There are Old and New Testament references to “angels of the Lord,” “an angel of the Lord,” and “the angel of the Lord.” It seems when the definite article “the” is used, it is specifying a unique being, separate from the other angels. The angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God (Genesis 16:7-12; 21:17-18; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24; 13:3-22; 2 Samuel 24:16; Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8). In several of these appearances, those who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.” Therefore, it is clear that in at least some instances, the angel of the Lord is a theophany, an appearance of God in physical form.
Judges 6:22
And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.

Judges 13:16
And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.


Judges 13:21
But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.

  1. Matthew 2:19
    But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lordappeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
  2. And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lordstanding on the right side of the altar of incense.
  3. Acts 7:30
    And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.


the article the vs an does not look like a hardfast rule of grammar to me.
 

Lambano

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I guess the Jews believed in guardian angels assigned to them. :innocent::innocent:
Although the text uses the word "aggelos", usually translated "angel", the way it's used makes me think the intended meaning is "It must be Peter's ghost". I don't know enough about the 1st century Greek culture to know if they would use "aggelos" or "pneuma" (spirit) or some other word for what we think of as someone's ghost. Maybe Johann knows.
 

Nancy

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Although the text uses the word "aggelos", usually translated "angel", the way it's used makes me think the intended meaning is "It must be Peter's ghost". I don't know enough about the 1st century Greek culture to know if they would use "aggelos" or "pneuma" (spirit) or some other word for what we think of as someone's ghost. Maybe Johann knows.
Really do not know and will probably never quite understand it, and yes, perhaps @Johann might know...?
 

The Learner

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i've read in scripture that there were thousands & thousands of angels :) i also think that there are guardian angels but scripture doesn't say there are
Exodus 23:20-21 ESV
“Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

Psalm 34:7 ESV
The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them.

"

Matthew 18:10 states, “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.” In the context, “these little ones” could either apply to those who believe in Him (v. 6) or it could refer to the little children (vs. 3-5). This is the key passage regarding guardian angels. There is no doubt that good angels help protect (Daniel 6:20-23; 2 Kings 6:13-17), reveal information (Acts 7:52-53; Luke 1:11-20), guide (Matthew 1:20-21; Acts 8:26), provide for (Genesis 21:17-20; 1 Kings 19:5-7), and minister to believers in general (Hebrews 1:14).

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The question is whether each person—or each believer—has an angel assigned to him/her. In the Old Testament, the nation of Israel had the archangel (Michael) assigned to it (Daniel 10:21; 12:1), but Scripture nowhere states that an angel is “assigned” to an individual (angels were sometimes sent to individuals, but there is no mention of permanent assignment). The Jews fully developed the belief in guardian angels during the time between the Old and New Testament periods. Some early church fathers believed that each person had not only a good angel assigned to him/her, but a demon as well. The belief in guardian angels has been around for a long time, but there is no explicit scriptural basis for it.

To return to Matthew 18:10, the word “their” is a collective pronoun in the Greek and refers to the fact that believers are served by angels in general. These angels are pictured as “always” watching the face of God so as to hear His command to them to help a believer when it is needed. The angels in this passage do not seem to be guarding a person so much as being attentive to the Father in heaven. The active duty or oversight seems, then, to come more from God than from the angels, which makes perfect sense because God alone is omniscient. He sees every believer at every moment, and He alone knows when one of us needs the intervention of an angel. Because they are continually seeing His face, the angels are at His disposal to help one of His “little ones.”

It cannot be emphatically answered from Scripture whether or not each believer has a guardian angel assigned to him/her. But, as stated earlier, God does use angels in ministering to us. It is scriptural to say that He uses them as He uses us; that is, He in no way needs us or them to accomplish His purposes, but chooses to use us and them nevertheless (Hebrews 1:7). In the end, whether or not we have an angel assigned to protect us, we have an even greater assurance from God: if we are His children through faith in Christ, He works all things together for good (Romans 8:28-30), and Jesus Christ will never leave us or forsake us (Hebrews 13:5-6). If we have an omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God with us, does it really matter whether or not there is a finite guardian angel protecting us?" Do we have guardian angels? | GotQuestions.org
 

stunnedbygrace

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The part of the story that grabbed my focus, when I read it again, was verse 15, believe it or not.

15 “You’re out of your mind,” they told her.
I hear that a lot when I’m relating things I’m seeing. :confused: :):p
 
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Johann

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Really do not know and will probably never quite understand it, and yes, perhaps @Johann might know...?
I really appreciate you and Lambano drawing me into friendly discussions...but I will decline from commenting, or sharing my thoughts, since as of late everything I say or post, brings the worst out of Christians.

Shalom to both of you.
Johann.
 

The Learner

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Guardians of the Nations.
Already in Dan. x. 20-21, the idea prevails that each nation has a heavenly guardian angel or prince. In Enoch, lxxxix. 59, the seventy shepherds are the guardian angels of the seventy nations over whom Michael, as Israel's angel-prince, is set as ruler. With these seventy-one angel-princes of the world God sits in council when holding judgment over the world (Hebrew Enoch; Jellinek, "B. H." v. 181); each pleading the cause of his nation before God (Targ. Yer. Gen. xi. 7-8, Pirḳe R. El. xxiv.). At times they accuse Israel (Pesiḳ. xxvii. 176a); at times they find especial merit in him (Suk. 29a). They are the "gods" whom the Lord crushes before He executes His punishment upon the nations in their charge (Suk. 29a, according to Ex. xii. 12; Soṭah, 9a). These angel-princes of the nations— of Babel, Media, Greece, Syria, and Rome—Jacob saw in his dream ascending and descending the ladder (Gen. R. lxviii., Pesiḳ. xxiii. 151a). The angel with whom Jacob wrestled was the angel-prince of Edom (Gen. R. lxxvii.), Samael, the head of all Satans (Tan., Wayishlaḥ, ii. 25). The name of the angel of Egypt is Miẓraim (Ex. R. xxi.) or Uzza (Midr. Wayosha'; Jellinek, "B. H." i. 39; Hekalot, v. 172); that of Persia's angel-prince is Dubbiel (= Beargod; Yoma, 77a, after Dan. vii. 5). But Michael, the angel-prince of Jerusalem (Zion, Targ. Ps. cxxxvii. 7-8), is set over all the seventy angels (Midr. Abkir; Yalḳ., Gen. § 132).

There is, however, a special angel-prince set over the world, Sar ha-'olam (Yeb. 16b, Ḥul. 60a, Sanh. 94a). He composed the verses, Ps. xxxvii. 25, civ. 31, and, partly, Isa. xxiv. 16. An angel of mankind is mentioned also (Apoc. Mosis, 32). He has been identified, whether correctly or incorrectly (see Tos. Yeb. 16b; Wiener, "Ben Chananja," ix. 600; Kohut, "Jüd. Angelologie," p. 42), with Meṭaṭron. In order fully to resemble the court of the Persian King of Kings, the heavenly court is put in charge of a vice-regent, the sar ha-Panim ("prince of the divine face"). According to the Testament of Job (lii.), this vice-regent "sitteth upon the great chariot" (see Kohler, "Semitic Studies," p. 299); he is, according to Philo "On Dreams" (i. 25), "the driver of the chariot" (ἡνιōχōς ἆρματōς). His "name is like the name of his Master" (Sanh. 38b, according to Ex. xxiii. 21), known under the name of "Meṭaṭron" (Mithra; see Dio Chrysostomus, "Oratio," xxxvi. Windischmann, "Zoroastrische Studien," pp. 309-312; frequently explained as "Metator," "Metathronos," and "Metatyranos." See Sachs, "Beiträge," i. 108; Jellinek, "Die Kabbala," p. 43; id., "B.H." ii. 30; Levy, "Chal Wörterb." s.v.; Kohut, "Aruch," s.v.).

This vice-regent is probably identical with the archangel Jehoel mentioned in Apoc. Abraham, x., as mediator of the ineffable name of God; also with Yehadriel ("Hekalot" in Jellinek, "B.H." ii. 47); and perhaps also with Akathriel, the occupant of God's throne (Ber. 7a).

But alongside of Meṭaṭron is mentioned in "Maseket Aẓilut" (based on Job, xli. 9), as "brother" and above him, Sandalfon, explained as Synadelphon ("twin-brother") and as "Sardonyx" (see Jellinek, in "Ben Chananja," iv. 182, 329, 365; compare Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxv.). The later Cabala places Akathriel above the twin-brothers Meṭaṭron (= Enoch) and Sandalfon (= Elijah) (see Yalḳ. Ḥadash, s.v. "Malakim," pp. 38-39). Of well-nigh equal rank with Meṭaṭron are Sandalfon and Akathriel ("the crown of God"; Ber. 7a).

Beneath these are the seven heavens with Michael, Gabriel, Shateiel ("angel of silence"), Shaḥaḳiel, ("angel of shahaḳim"), Baradiel, Baraḳiel, and Sadriel ("angel of order") as chiefs; and beneath them in the Velon, Galgaliel, and Ofaniel, Rehaṭiel, and Kokbiel as the angels of sun-wheel, moon-wheel, planets, and the other stars with all their hosts; the seventy-two angel-princes of the nations being stationed above these (Hekalot, published by Jellinek, "Ḳontros ha-Maggid," pp. 31 et seq.).

Besides these, sixty-three angels are mentioned as janitors of the seven heavens ("Hekalot," xv.; Jellinek," B. H." iii. et seq.), and others stationed at each of the seven heavens as seal-bearers (ibid. xvii.-xxii.); and above all these, as head and chief, Anfiel, whose crown "branches out" to "cover the heaven with the divine majesty" (Hab. iii. 3). Mention is made also of Ofaniel, Seraphiel, Cherubiel, as chiefs of the ofanim, seraphim, and cherubim; of Rikbiel and Hailael (Hayael?) as chiefs of the divine chariot and the ḥayyot; Sofriel as "bookkeeper"; Dabriel as interpreter of the "word"; Ḳafẓiel ("speed of God"); Hadriel, or Hadraniel ("majesty of God");Adiririon (Adiryah? "might of God"; see Jellinek, "B. H." v. 178-180, and "Hekalot" fragment in "Ḳontros ha-Maggid," pp. 34-36; idem, "B. H." i. 58). Zunz counts forty angels mentioned in the liturgy ("S. P." p. 476). These are increased to the extent of thousands, with names far beyond intelligibility or recognition, but scarcely, as Zunz thinks ("G. V." p. 177), altogether invented."
 
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Johann

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Although the text uses the word "aggelos", usually translated "angel", the way it's used makes me think the intended meaning is "It must be Peter's ghost". I don't know enough about the 1st century Greek culture to know if they would use "aggelos" or "pneuma" (spirit) or some other word for what we think of as someone's ghost. Maybe Johann knows.
Jesus and the Angel of YHWH
The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Angel. Remember, an angel is one who is sent without reference to the nature of the one sent.
When 1 Corinthians 10:1 is compared with Exodus 13:21, and Exodus 14:19, 24 the Angel of God, who had been going before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them. It goes on to say that '...at the morning watch, YHWH looked down on the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud...'
Numbers 14:14 says that it was YHWH who was among the people. And Psalm 78:14 says that '...he led them with the cloud by day and all the night with a light of fire.'
It was the Angel who accompanied the nation and the New Testament says that it was the Messiah who accompanied them. He was their spiritual rock. (1 Corinthians 10:4) The association seems clear:
Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15, 18

Jude 5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus*, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
* The reading Ἰησοῦς/Jesus [enjoys] ...the strongest support from a variety of early witnesses (e.g., A B 33 81 1241 1739 1881 2344 pc vg co Or1739mg)... The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005).)

Exodus 12:51 says that YHWH brought the people out of Egypt and yet...

Judges 2:1 says that the Angel of YHWH brought Israel out of Egypt

And 1 Corinthians 10:4-5, 9 says 'all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Messiah. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.... We must not put *Messiah/Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents.'
* Χριστόν (Christon, “Christ”) is attested in the majority of MSS, including many important witnesses of the Alexandrian (46 1739 1881) and Western (D F G) textvtypes, and other MSS and versions (Ψ latt sy co). The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2005).


Numbers 26:65 For YHWH had said of them, “They shall die in the wilderness.” Not one of them was left, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

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John 8:58
“εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.” (John 8:58)
הֵשִׁיב לָהֶם יֵשׁוּעַ׃ ״אָמֵן אָמֵן אֲנִי אוֹמֵר לָכֶם, בְּטֶרֶם הֱיוֹת אַבְרָהָם, אֲנִי הוּא.

"So the Judeans said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple."

The lead up to his statement is this:

“So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”” (John 8:19)
“And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.” (John 8:23)

““I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”” (John 8:38)

 

Johann

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Guardians of the Nations.
Already in Dan. x. 20-21, the idea prevails that each nation has a heavenly guardian angel or prince. In Enoch, lxxxix. 59, the seventy shepherds are the guardian angels of the seventy nations over whom Michael, as Israel's angel-prince, is set as ruler. With these seventy-one angel-princes of the world God sits in council when holding judgment over the world (Hebrew Enoch; Jellinek, "B. H." v. 181); each pleading the cause of his nation before God (Targ. Yer. Gen. xi. 7-8, Pirḳe R. El. xxiv.). At times they accuse Israel (Pesiḳ. xxvii. 176a); at times they find especial merit in him (Suk. 29a). They are the "gods" whom the Lord crushes before He executes His punishment upon the nations in their charge (Suk. 29a, according to Ex. xii. 12; Soṭah, 9a). These angel-princes of the nations— of Babel, Media, Greece, Syria, and Rome—Jacob saw in his dream ascending and descending the ladder (Gen. R. lxviii., Pesiḳ. xxiii. 151a). The angel with whom Jacob wrestled was the angel-prince of Edom (Gen. R. lxxvii.), Samael, the head of all Satans (Tan., Wayishlaḥ, ii. 25). The name of the angel of Egypt is Miẓraim (Ex. R. xxi.) or Uzza (Midr. Wayosha'; Jellinek, "B. H." i. 39; Hekalot, v. 172); that of Persia's angel-prince is Dubbiel (= Beargod; Yoma, 77a, after Dan. vii. 5). But Michael, the angel-prince of Jerusalem (Zion, Targ. Ps. cxxxvii. 7-8), is set over all the seventy angels (Midr. Abkir; Yalḳ., Gen. § 132).

There is, however, a special angel-prince set over the world, Sar ha-'olam (Yeb. 16b, Ḥul. 60a, Sanh. 94a). He composed the verses, Ps. xxxvii. 25, civ. 31, and, partly, Isa. xxiv. 16. An angel of mankind is mentioned also (Apoc. Mosis, 32). He has been identified, whether correctly or incorrectly (see Tos. Yeb. 16b; Wiener, "Ben Chananja," ix. 600; Kohut, "Jüd. Angelologie," p. 42), with Meṭaṭron. In order fully to resemble the court of the Persian King of Kings, the heavenly court is put in charge of a vice-regent, the sar ha-Panim ("prince of the divine face"). According to the Testament of Job (lii.), this vice-regent "sitteth upon the great chariot" (see Kohler, "Semitic Studies," p. 299); he is, according to Philo "On Dreams" (i. 25), "the driver of the chariot" (ἡνιōχōς ἆρματōς). His "name is like the name of his Master" (Sanh. 38b, according to Ex. xxiii. 21), known under the name of "Meṭaṭron" (Mithra; see Dio Chrysostomus, "Oratio," xxxvi. Windischmann, "Zoroastrische Studien," pp. 309-312; frequently explained as "Metator," "Metathronos," and "Metatyranos." See Sachs, "Beiträge," i. 108; Jellinek, "Die Kabbala," p. 43; id., "B.H." ii. 30; Levy, "Chal Wörterb." s.v.; Kohut, "Aruch," s.v.).

This vice-regent is probably identical with the archangel Jehoel mentioned in Apoc. Abraham, x., as mediator of the ineffable name of God; also with Yehadriel ("Hekalot" in Jellinek, "B.H." ii. 47); and perhaps also with Akathriel, the occupant of God's throne (Ber. 7a).

But alongside of Meṭaṭron is mentioned in "Maseket Aẓilut" (based on Job, xli. 9), as "brother" and above him, Sandalfon, explained as Synadelphon ("twin-brother") and as "Sardonyx" (see Jellinek, in "Ben Chananja," iv. 182, 329, 365; compare Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxv.). The later Cabala places Akathriel above the twin-brothers Meṭaṭron (= Enoch) and Sandalfon (= Elijah) (see Yalḳ. Ḥadash, s.v. "Malakim," pp. 38-39). Of well-nigh equal rank with Meṭaṭron are Sandalfon and Akathriel ("the crown of God"; Ber. 7a).

Beneath these are the seven heavens with Michael, Gabriel, Shateiel ("angel of silence"), Shaḥaḳiel, ("angel of shahaḳim"), Baradiel, Baraḳiel, and Sadriel ("angel of order") as chiefs; and beneath them in the Velon, Galgaliel, and Ofaniel, Rehaṭiel, and Kokbiel as the angels of sun-wheel, moon-wheel, planets, and the other stars with all their hosts; the seventy-two angel-princes of the nations being stationed above these (Hekalot, published by Jellinek, "Ḳontros ha-Maggid," pp. 31 et seq.).

Besides these, sixty-three angels are mentioned as janitors of the seven heavens ("Hekalot," xv.; Jellinek," B. H." iii. et seq.), and others stationed at each of the seven heavens as seal-bearers (ibid. xvii.-xxii.); and above all these, as head and chief, Anfiel, whose crown "branches out" to "cover the heaven with the divine majesty" (Hab. iii. 3). Mention is made also of Ofaniel, Seraphiel, Cherubiel, as chiefs of the ofanim, seraphim, and cherubim; of Rikbiel and Hailael (Hayael?) as chiefs of the divine chariot and the ḥayyot; Sofriel as "bookkeeper"; Dabriel as interpreter of the "word"; Ḳafẓiel ("speed of God"); Hadriel, or Hadraniel ("majesty of God");Adiririon (Adiryah? "might of God"; see Jellinek, "B. H." v. 178-180, and "Hekalot" fragment in "Ḳontros ha-Maggid," pp. 34-36; idem, "B. H." i. 58). Zunz counts forty angels mentioned in the liturgy ("S. P." p. 476). These are increased to the extent of thousands, with names far beyond intelligibility or recognition, but scarcely, as Zunz thinks ("G. V." p. 177), altogether invented."
Now if I would have post this, me thinks, they would yell "Judaizer!"

Another good site to visit is The Jewish Virtual Library, and I think it is important for us believers to see and read how the ancient rabbinical writers, as well as Modern writers, believe, and their customs and cultures.

Love your pathos.
PS, check up the 'Oral law" but be careful, eat he chicken, spit out the sticks brother.

Shalom
J.
 
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