How Many Antichrist Objects in 1 John 2:18?

[veteran]

How many antichrist objects are there in the 1 John 2:18 verse below, and what are they?


I Jn 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(KJV)

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

It is a SPIRIT of antichristos and there are many antichristoi. A "spirit" of antichristos is an ATTITUDE of being against the Messiah. None of the verses in 1 John or 2 John are referring to a single individual.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The only 4 verses in the Scriptures that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that there are many antichrists. None of those verses tell us antichrist is an end time world leader.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I know that most end time doctrines teach that there will be a “the Antichrist” in the end times. But not once in Scripture is the word antichrist capitalized. Nor do any of the verses that use the term state that antichrist is an end time world leader. In fact the verses tell us that antichrist was already in the world when John wrote the verses. Many say that John said there would be a future “the Antichrist” because in 1Jn2:18 he said “ye have heard that antichrist shall come” but John did not say that there would be a future one, he said ”ye have heard”. Ye have heard there is a man in the moon too but that doesn’t make it true. Where did they hear it from? Could it be that John was already correcting a heresy that had entered the church? In addition we must not forget that John also told us what that antichrist was in 1Jn4:3 when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come”. Notice how well “ye have heard antichrist shall come” fits with “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” There are literally well over a billion people in today’s world that deny God even has a Son and by doing so they prove that they are inhabited by the spirit of antichrist. To use the term “the Antichrist” in singular fashion to describe an end time world leader does not match what Scripture tells us about antichrists.
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Could the end result of this traditional teaching be making “the word of God of none effect”? Does this doctrine take the eyes of the average Christian off the literally billions of antichrists that have existed past, present and future? Just for grins next time you go to church, after the service, ask a few members of the congregation who or what antichrists are. I suspect that most of the people asked, most likely the majority, if not all would say that antichrist is some end time figure (and proceed to guess at who it might be), and that few if any would point it out it is a spirit and there are many. I’ve asked many people that question over the years and even though when asking I used the term in plural fashion rarely has any one pointed out antichrist is a spirit and that there are many. Is it time that we as Christians start correcting this improper application? After all wouldn’t doing so bring the focus of the average Christian back to the literally billions of antichrist that have or will exist past, present and future? Who, other then satan would want to take the focus off these antichrists? Is it possible that this traditionally taught doctrine is a ploy of satan’s to keep us busy trying to figure out who “the Antichrist” is instead of concentrating on witnessing to the billions of antichrists past, present and future?
Isn’t it time we as Christians started focusing on witnessing to the billion plus antichrists that already exist, rather then wasting time trying to figure out who the doctrinally based (instead of Scripturally based) “the Antichrist” is?

Be blessed all and have a wonderful day!

 

[veteran]

None of that answers the question of how many 'antichrist' objects are in the 1 John 2:18 verse.

Not trying to be picky, but this is important, because there are other Bible witnesses other than John that define two separate objects with that word 'antichrist'.

In English grammar, a sentence has a subject and object. In the 1 John 2:18 verse, the subject is 'antichrist'. But there's 2 antichrist objects written there, and to ignore that is to go outside of common sense also, and not just simple English grammar.

I Jn 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(KJV)


1. "as ye have heard that antichrist shall come" - John is reminding them how they had heard... that antichrist shall come. This phrase is about a singular antichrist that they were already expecting to come, and had already heard was to come.

2. "even now are there many antichrists;" - John is giving them NEW information about the idea of antichrist. This is about a revelation that many antichrists were already here at work.

Where else in Scripture were we shown those two ideas? In 2 Thessalonians 2 by Apostle Paul.


The following is about the single antichrist they had heard was to come...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:6
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(KJV)


But the following is about the "many antichrists" which was new information John was imparting. Note how Paul also revealed that it was already at work in the world...

II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)


Our Lord Jesus also... gave this dual antichrist prophecy about a singular false one coming, and his workers that follow him ("many antichrists)...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

In the above Scripture, the phrase "false Christs" is singular with the word pseudo-Christos. The 23rd and 26th verses are also about a singular false one some will say is Christ. That's John's example of the antichrist they heard shall come. It's Paul's example of the false one to come to sit in the temple of God, exalting himself over all that called God or that is worshipped.


But the following is about the idea of "many antichrists"...

Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
(KJV)

That's also about Paul's mention of the "mystery of iniquity", the followers of the antichrist.


Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Paul makes this distinction with the "another Jesus" compared to the disguised ministers of righteousness.

2 Cor 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(KJV)

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
(KJV)

The Greek word "transformed" actually means 'transfigured or disguised' per the Greek (Strongs 3345).

Common sense even says you can't have "many antichrists" without a single "antichrist", just like many devils wouldn't exist unless there was a first single Devil they follow.

Thus the many antichrists confusion is nothing but confusion from the doctrines of men. It's designed to get you off those Scripture witnesses above about the coming of a singular false one that the deceived will say is Christ, and also his many antichrist workers that follow him that are already here at work.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

Be careful that you're not lumping together too much. A "false christ" is not the same thing as an "antichrist." A "false Messiah" is the not same thing as an "anti-Messiah." An "antichrist" or an "anti-Messiah" is one who has the "spirit of antichrist" or has an attitude of being against the Messiah. A "false christ" or a "false Messiah" is one who tries to take the place of the true Christ or the true Messiah. While taking the place of the Messiah is indeed being against the Messiah, not everyone who is teaching against the Messiah is trying to take His place.

 

[Ridgerunner]

None of that answers the question of how many 'antichrist' objects are in the 1 John 2:18 verse.

Not trying to be picky, but this is important, because there are other Bible witnesses other than John that define two separate objects with that word 'antichrist'.

In English grammar, a sentence has a subject and object. In the 1 John 2:18 verse, the subject is 'antichrist'. But there's 2 antichrist objects written there, and to ignore that is to go outside of common sense also, and not just simple English grammar.

I Jn 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(KJV)


1. "as ye have heard that antichrist shall come" - John is reminding them how they had heard... that antichrist shall come. This phrase is about a singular antichrist that they were already expecting to come, and had already heard was to come.

2. "even now are there many antichrists;" - John is giving them NEW information about the idea of antichrist. This is about a revelation that many antichrists were already here at work.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Friend you can continue to ignore that John told us exactly who the antichrist they heard shall come was in 1John4:3 in favor of traditionally taught doctrines if you so choose.

Where else in Scripture were we shown those two ideas? In 2 Thessalonians 2 by Apostle Paul.


The following is about the single antichrist they had heard was to come...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:6
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(KJV)

The belief that the man of sin, the son of perdition is “the Antichrist” an end time world leader is another of those doctrines that is built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Nothing in those verses indicates he is an end time world leader "aka "the Antichrist". He shews himself that he is God not the world. We must also recognize what the temple of God is if we are to find the man of sinm the son of perdition. We won’t find him in some building the Jews may or not build, but amongst the believers. After all that is where the temple of God is.
Eph 2:19-21 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens
with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the
apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all
the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
God does not dwell in man made buildings, so even if the Jews build a building and call it
the temple it won’t be the temple of God.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet
Act 17:24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

But the following is about the "many antichrists" which was new information John was imparting. Note how Paul also revealed that it was already at work in the world...

II Th 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)


Our Lord Jesus also... gave this dual antichrist prophecy about a singular false one coming, and his workers that follow him ("many antichrists)...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

In the above Scripture, the phrase "false Christs" is singular with the word pseudo-Christos. The 23rd and 26th verses are also about a singular false one some will say is Christ. That's John's example of the antichrist they heard shall come. It's Paul's example of the false one to come to sit in the temple of God, exalting himself over all that called God or that is worshipped.


But the following is about the idea of "many antichrists"...

Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
(KJV)

That's also about Paul's mention of the "mystery of iniquity", the followers of the antichrist.


Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Paul makes this distinction with the "another Jesus" compared to the disguised ministers of righteousness.

2 Cor 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(KJV)

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
(KJV)

The Greek word "transformed" actually means 'transfigured or disguised' per the Greek (Strongs 3345).

Common sense even says you can't have "many antichrists" without a single "antichrist", just like many devils wouldn't exist unless there was a first single Devil they follow.

Thus the many antichrists confusion is nothing but confusion from the doctrines of men. It's designed to get you off those Scripture witnesses above about the coming of a singular false one that the deceived will say is Christ, and also his many antichrist workers that follow him that are already here at work.

Read Retrobyters reply there is a difference betwenn an antichrist and a false christ. The belief that they are the same is a result of man's doctrine. A Scripturally bankrupt doctrine built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Shalom, veteran.

It is a SPIRIT of antichristos and there are many antichristoi. A "spirit" of antichristos is an ATTITUDE of being against the Messiah. None of the verses in 1 John or 2 John are referring to a single individual.

Good answer.
Ive never heard a person describe the spirit of antichrist as Attitude before but that is how Ive understood it .

Shalom, veteran.

Be careful that you're not lumping together too much. A "false christ" is not the same thing as an "antichrist." A "false Messiah" is the not same thing as an "anti-Messiah." An "antichrist" or an "anti-Messiah" is one who has the "spirit of antichrist" or has an attitude of being against the Messiah. A "false christ" or a "false Messiah" is one who tries to take the place of the true Christ or the true Messiah. While taking the place of the Messiah is indeed being against the Messiah, not everyone who is teaching against the Messiah is trying to take His place.

Another excellent answer.

 

[veteran]

The false doctrine of no singular 'antichrist' is not per the 1 John 2:18 Scripture. Even the early Church also understood the prophecy about a specific singular antichrist that was to come, and was looking for that particular antichrist. It's all through their early writings.

The confusion that there is no singular antichrist is obviously a later development from the doctrines of men.

And it's not difficult to determine what that doctrine of men is designed to do; to deceive brethren from understanding about the coming of the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward that is to do miracles and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world. It should be obvious that Satan wants as many deceived about that as possible, so the deceived will fall for him as Paul's "another Jesus" (2 Cor.11).

 

[Ridgerunner]

The false doctrine of no singular 'antichrist' is not per the 1 John 2:18 Scripture. Even the early Church also understood the prophecy about a specific singular antichrist that was to come, and was looking for that particular antichrist. It's all through their early writings. The confusion that there is no singular antichrist is obviously a later development from the doctrines of men.

And yet not one single verse that uses the term antichrist or antichrists states that antichrist is a world leader that will rule in the end times. Once again here are the verses:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Once again may I remind you to notice the bolded parts in 1John2:18 and 1John4:3

If you want to ignore what John told us in 1John4:3 so that you can follow traditional teachings that is certainly your choice. Just be careful that by doing so that you aren’t doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.

And it's not difficult to determine what that doctrine of men is designed to do; to deceive brethren from understanding about the coming of the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward that is to do miracles and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world.

Once again per the inspired word of God beasts are kingdoms.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
And history has proven God’s word true. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Can you show us where the definition of a beast in prophetic language has changed from a beast to “the Antichrist”? If not then wouldn’t we be better served to use the definition God’s inspired word has given us for a beast?

It should be obvious that Satan wants as many deceived about that as possible, so the deceived will fall for him as Paul's "another Jesus" (2 Cor.11).

Once again per the inspired word of God an antichrist is one who denies Christ/God. A false Christ is one who tries to take the place of Christ. Confusing the two will lead to false doctrine.

As you are led friend, as you are led.

 

[veteran]

And yet not one single verse that uses the term antichrist or antichrists states that antichrist is a world leader that will rule in the end times. Once again here are the verses:

By that statement, I can only assume that you're under a condition of God having blinded you. We don't have to have the word antichrist repeated again for us in the Rev.13:11-18 verses to KNOW... that a specific antichrist is coming...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(KJV)

Nor do we have to have the word antichrist appear in Paul's warnings to know about the coming of a specific false one...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(KJV)

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Once again may I remind you to notice the bolded parts in 1John2:18 and 1John4:3

The word "as" and "come" should have also been made bold with John's phrase that they had already heard that the antichrist was to come. Our Lord Jesus taught that same idea per John 14 through 16, and He was speaking of a specific false one also.

If you want to ignore what John told us in 1John4:3 so that you can follow traditional teachings that is certainly your choice. Just be careful that by doing so that you aren’t doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.

I have ignored NOTHING within John's Scripture. It's YOU... that is ignoring John's first phrase about a singular antichrist which they had already been told, and instead hold to a later traditioin of men that there is no such thing as a singular coming antichrist.

The Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2; 2 Cor.11; and Rev.13:11-18 Scriptures are very PLAIN about that singular false one coming and his false workers of the "mystery of iniquity" (the "many antichrists"). Your blindness in that is astounding, which is definitely a sign of God's doing for some reason.

Once again per the inspired word of God beasts are kingdoms.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And history has proven God’s word true. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Can you show us where the definition of a beast in prophetic language has changed from a beast to “the Antichrist”? If not then wouldn’t we be better served to use the definition God’s inspired word has given us for a beast?

You're wrong about that too, for the 'beast' idea of our Lord's Book of Revelation also extends to the "another beast", a certain person to work miracles causing deception, and will setup the image of the beast. I'll show you even how you leave... the simple English grammar of that also...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Just why... would a "first beast" be mentioned there along with that "another beast", if there is only ONE beast per our Lord's Revelation? Truth of the matter is that our Lord Jesus revealed TWO BEASTS, the first beast as a kingdom per Rev.13:1-2, and this second beast, the "another beast", as a SINGULAR INDIVIDUAL working miracles on earth in the sight of men to deceive with.

Thus the inability to recognize TWO different beasts as written there, is... a definite sign of God having blinded you. Why? I think it's because of those you've been listening to instead of Him in His simple Word.


Rev.13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(KJV)

Who else mentioned about a false one like that coming to work those great wonders and miracles on earth that would almost... deceive His own elect? Why, our Lord Jesus also told us that! Where? In the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture! Paul did too! Where? In the 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 Scripture! Not only there, but our Lord Jesus gave that idea again even in the Rev.9, Rev.11, and Rev.17 Scripture!!


Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(KJV)

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
(KJV)

Who didn't know that Satan himself is that "king" and angel of the bottomless pit that shall come up out of the earth in the last days to work great wonders and miracles in the sight of men? Now you should know the difference of why... the first beast comes up out of the sea, but the second beast ("another beast") comes up out of the EARTH! That's who our Lord Jesus has been trying to warn us about that is to come, LITERALLY AND PHYSICALLY, upon this earth in plain sight.



A REVELATION:

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

THAT... is how those John was speaking to with the 1 John 2:18 verse about antichrist had already heard that he was to come. Our Lord Jesus had already... warned His Apostles about it!!! He even gave more detail about Satan's casting down to this earth in the last days with his angels per Rev.12:7-17, and Daniel 12:1, while men's traditions try to destroy that Revelation also!!

You've already been well warned about that coming event. What you do with it is up to you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

By that statement, I can only assume that you're under a condition of God having blinded you. We don't have to have the word antichrist repeated again for us in the Rev.13:11-18 verses to KNOW... that a specific antichrist is coming...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(KJV)

Per the inspired word of God beasts are kingdoms and history has proven God's word true.
Dan7:23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.Daniel's lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Per the inspired word of God antichrists are those who deny Christ/God. Yet you confuse the two and nullify God's word by doing so.

Nor do we have to have the word antichrist appear in Paul's warnings to know about the coming of a specific false one...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(KJV)[/color]

While the man of sin is certainly inhabited by the spirit of antichrist there is no Scriptural proof that he is an end time world leader. He does not show the world that he is God but shows himself that he is God. Why do you assume that this entity is an endtime world leader? Besides even if you were correct that the man of sin is an endtime world leaer he would be a false Christ not an anti Christ. A false Christ attempts to take the place of Christ an antichrist denies Christ. Those are not the same thing, confusing the terms leads to false doctrine.

The word "as" and "come" should have also been made bold with John's phrase that they had already heard that the antichrist was to come. Our Lord Jesus taught that same idea per John 14 through 16, and He was speaking of a specific false one also.

I have ignored NOTHING within John's Scripture. It's YOU... that is ignoring John's first phrase about a singular antichrist which they had already been told, and instead hold to a later traditioin of men that there is no such thing as a singular coming antichrist.

Even if we bold those two additional words in1 John2:18 it won’t change the fact that John told us exactly what to expect in 1John4:3. Let’s have a look at the parts I have bolded below in both verses to see what you continue to ignore.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

We cannot deny that John said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world” just so we can falsely claim John was speaking of some future individual. To do so would make the word of Gods of none effect and would be doing exactly what Christ warned the pharasees against in Mark7:13.

The Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2; 2 Cor.11; and Rev.13:11-18 Scriptures are very PLAIN about that singular false one coming and his false workers of the "mystery of iniquity" (the "many antichrists"). Your blindness in that is astounding, which is definitely a sign of God's doing for some reason.

Mat 24:23-26 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

So let me get this straight according to you false Christs is singular and not plural? Since when? Besides if one mistakenly confuses a false Christ with an antichrist they are starting with a faulty premise. If you build a doctrine on a false premise the result will be false doctrine.

2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If there is only one man of sin, the son of perdition then it would have to be Judas as he was the one Christ referred to as the son of perdition. Just because the term is used in the singular fashion in this instance does not mean there is only one man of sin. By that line of reasoning one could also insist there is only one man of God because that term is used in singular fashion. There are 73 verses that use the term man of God in a singular fashion, but not all of those verses are referring to the same individual. If one wants to understand the man of sin, the son of perdition they must first start by recognizing where the temple of God is. It is not some man made building the Jews may or may not ever succeed in building. God does not dwell in man made buildings. There are many sitting amongst the believers (the true temple of God) that do exactly what Scripture tells us the man of sin does.

Rev 13:11 - 18 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two
horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

These verses are in reference to a beast God’s inspired word defines beasts as kingdom’s and history proves God’s word true with Daniel’s lion beast from prophecy having been Babylon, the bear was Med-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Sound hermeneutic principles require us to use the definitions God provides in Scripture if we want to correctly interpret prophecy. Normaly we don’t gpo to the Old Testament for New Testament terms unless there is no definition in the New Testament. Can you show us where in the New Testament the definition of a beast has changed from a kingdom to “the Antichrist”? It hasn’t so proper exegesis requires using a kingdom.

You're wrong about that too, for the 'beast' idea of our Lord's Book of Revelation also extends to the "another beast", a certain person to work miracles causing deception, and will setup the image of the beast. I'll show you even how you leave... the simple English grammar of that also...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Just why... would a "first beast" be mentioned there along with that "another beast", if there is only ONE beast per our Lord's Revelation? Truth of the matter is that our Lord Jesus revealed TWO BEASTS, the first beast as a kingdom per Rev.13:1-2, and this second beast, the "another beast", as a SINGULAR INDIVIDUAL working miracles on earth in the sight of men to deceive with.

Thus the inability to recognize TWO different beasts as written there, is... a definite sign of God having blinded you. Why? I think it's because of those you've been listening to instead of Him in His simple Word.

Don’t presume to know what I believe or try making it look like I believe something I don’t. Just because I demonstrated that a beast is a kingdom does not mean I have failed to recognize there are two individual kingdoms being talked about in Rev13. By you being so presumptuous It only shows that you assume too much. Do you also make that same mistake when interpreting Scripture?

As for as the rest of your post goes one can’tblindly assume that just because some entities share some of the same traits they are talking about the same entity, to do so woiuld be faulty exegesis.

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.

Do you wish to continue following and defending traditional doctrines that make the word of God of none effect or is it time to seek the truth?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, gentlemen.

Gentlemen, please, keep the discussion to the issues and avoid attacking the man. Avoid accusations of "blindness," for instance. We are called to do better than that. There's nothing wrong with discussing these issues in the spirit of COOPERATION instead of COMPETITION and/or CONFRONTATION.

When the conversation degenerates to accusations, it simply means that we are feeling frustrated. Usually this is a good indicator that we are feeling frustrated with ourselves because we can't support our positions well enough to convince others. IT'S OKAY to feel frustrated!

We might assume that we've made our case well enough for someone else to understand it, but OTHERS still can't see it. That's not about you; it's about THEM! But, you must recognize that the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) works with individuals in various stages of their lives and in various development processes within their thinking. Another person may just not be ready yet to see it! Be patient with him, and more importantly, be patient with GOD as He works with him!

We might also become frustrated if we can't support our position well enough because we have gained our position from the teaching of others. That's okay, too. We just have to dig a little deeper. Try to find out WHY you were taught that position by someone else. It may be that the teacher will point you to particular Scriptures you haven't used yet in your argument. The teacher might have good reasons as to why he taught you such a position. Finding out those reasons will give you the ammunition you need to better support the position. On the other hand, the teacher might NOT have good reasons and is only passing along what HE learned from others. If that's the case, then you'll have to dig deeper still and trace the teaching back to its roots.

Occasionally, someone else's argument will be personally convincing to you! At that point, you have a decision to make: Do you stick to your original position and try to find counter-arguments to the convincing argument and defend your original position? OR, should you discard your original position for the convincing argument, even if it means rebuilding your position from scratch?

I've had to do the latter at a very low point in my life. I kicked out everything but two facts: First, I had already been "saved" by then; so, I knew God existed and that He loved me and "saved" me. Second, that God, both existing and loving human beings, would want to communicate with those human beings, and it made sense to do so in a Book that could be well-preserved to survive to future generations. Everything else I discarded and rebuilt my belief-structure from the ground up.

We also need to be patient with others when they have brought our own arguments against us. If we haven't thought out a matter thoroughly, and the other person has argued us into a corner, so to speak, it's also okay to say, "Uncle!" or "You're right; I'm wrong" or "Let me think about that some more, and I'll get back to you on that."

NONE of us has the "corner on the market" when it comes to prophecy. It's like weaving a tapestry: Building beliefs upon other foundational beliefs builds a monumental work of art, but we may discover down the road that one of the threads that should have been black, is red! We might get lucky and be able to simply pull out the red thread without doing major damage to the weave, but more than likely, it will cause the whole thing to unravel!

The same thing is found here. We've been taught that the "beast of Revelation 13" is called the "Antichrist" so long, that it is hard for someone to accept that it may not be true! If one's belief-system is build upon foundations of other beliefs that are independent of this nomenclature, then it might survive to know that the "beast" is NOT called the "Antichrist," and he can just simply "yank that thread" out of the picture as a matter of symantics. HOWEVER, if he has built other beliefs upon the belief that the "beast" IS EQUAL TO the "Antichrist," then it might cause his belief-system to unravel, either in a minor way or in a major way!

In any case, we need to give the other person the benefit of the doubt and trust God to work in his or her life AND IN HIS TIMING! Sometimes, we need to just "agree to disagree" and walk away. At other times, we just need to table the discussion until other things have been discussed first. But, at ALL times, we should LOVE the brother or sister as GOD loves him or her!

 

[veteran]

[/color][/font][/size]

Per the inspired word of God beasts are kingdoms and history has proven God's word true.
Dan7:23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.Daniel's lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Per the inspired word of God antichrists are those who deny Christ/God. Yet you confuse the two and nullify God's word by doing so.

[/font][/size]

Yes, the idea of an antichrist is... anyone that denies our Lord Jesus Christ. And that's especially Satan, the devil, AND... his followers. That's exactly what John was pointing to, also our Lord Jesus did, and likewise Apostle Paul. But you've obviously been blinded away from God's Truth about the idea of Satan as the singular antichrist separate from all his followers that also deny our Lord Jesus Christ.

While the man of sin is certainly inhabited by the spirit of antichrist there is no Scriptural proof that he is an end time world leader. He does not show the world that he is God but shows himself that he is God. Why do you assume that this entity is an endtime world leader? Besides even if you were correct that the man of sin is an endtime world leaer he would be a false Christ not an anti Christ. A false Christ attempts to take the place of Christ an antichrist denies Christ. Those are not the same thing, confusing the terms leads to false doctrine.

There's plenty of Scripture proof that 'man of sin' Paul was speaking of is going to be a world leader in the end, but not just a world leader, but a world king, a beast king in power over the beast kingdom of Rev.13:1. The Revelation Scripture about the dragon and "another beast" is as plain as day, but you've been so blinded that you can't even read the simple English as written. Those you've been listening to on the doctrines of men have bewitched you; they do not have your best interest in mind.

Even if we bold those two additional words in1 John2:18 it won’t change the fact that John told us exactly what to expect in 1John4:3. Let’s have a look at the parts I have bolded below in both verses to see what you continue to ignore.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You're simply not using common sense. There's a huge difference between John's clauses of 1 John 2:18 with "as ye have heard that antichrist shall come", and the idea of the "spirit of antichrist". He's covering two different bits of information about the idea of antichrist, which in the Greek simply means 'instead of' or 'in place of Christ'. No doubt you don't even know what Satan's original rebellion against God was about either.

But that's what those you've listened to have trained you to do, to try and pass over John's first clause that they had already heard that a singualr antichrist was to come, and to deny that, and then immediately push their false doctrine that John spoke only of the idea of "many antichrists".

Those behind that false doctrine of men you hold to, they also try to push the blatant lie that Paul in 2 Thess.2 was not speaking of a specific individual coming to sit in the temple of God, to exalt himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped. But doing that is to clearly leave even the singular tense of Paul's subject about the son of perdition, and "that Wicked" one that's to come. The only answer for why those like yourself would listen to their false doctrines on that has to be because God has blinded you. And only He can remove that blindness.

 

[Ridgerunner]

[/color]

Yes, the idea of an antichrist is... anyone that denies our Lord Jesus Christ. And that's especially Satan, the devil, AND... his followers. That's exactly what John was pointing to, also our Lord Jesus did, and likewise Apostle Paul. But you've obviously been blinded away from God's Truth about the idea of Satan as the singular antichrist separate from all his followers that also deny our Lord Jesus Christ.




There's plenty of Scripture proof that 'man of sin' Paul was speaking of is going to be a world leader in the end, but not just a world leader, but a world king, a beast king in power over the beast kingdom of Rev.13:1. The Revelation Scripture about the dragon and "another beast" is as plain as day, but you've been so blinded that you can't even read the simple English as written. Those you've been listening to on the doctrines of men have bewitched you; they do not have your best interest in mind.


[/b][/color]

You're simply not using common sense. There's a huge difference between John's clauses of 1 John 2:18 with "as ye have heard that antichrist shall come", and the idea of the "spirit of antichrist". He's covering two different bits of information about the idea of antichrist, which in the Greek simply means 'instead of' or 'in place of Christ'. No doubt you don't even know what Satan's original rebellion against God was about either.

But that's what those you've listened to have trained you to do, to try and pass over John's first clause that they had already heard that a singualr antichrist was to come, and to deny that, and then immediately push their false doctrine that John spoke only of the idea of "many antichrists".

Those behind that false doctrine of men you hold to, they also try to push the blatant lie that Paul in 2 Thess.2 was not speaking of a specific individual coming to sit in the temple of God, to exalt himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped. But doing that is to clearly leave even the singular tense of Paul's subject about the son of perdition, and "that Wicked" one that's to come. The only answer for why those like yourself would listen to their false doctrines on that has to be because God has blinded you. And only He can remove that blindness.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world

Veteran you can ignore the fact that in the same Epistle John told us “ye have heard antichrist shall come” he also told us “this is the spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come and even now already is it in the world” if you want. Doing so will not change the fact that John already told us who the singular antichrist from verse 1John2:18 is and that it was already in the world when John wrote the verse. Do you think the antichrist from1John4:3 is another antichrist they heard would come? Ignoring the truth so you can follow a traditional teaching that has been proven Scripturally bankrupt is to do exactly what Christ warned against in Mark7:13. Traditional doctrinally based arguments do not trump the word of God. If you had hermeneutically sound Scriptural arguments you would prove your point with Scripture but obviously as your tactics reveal that isn’t the case. Like I said as you are led friend, as you are led.

 

[veteran]

....

Veteran you can ignore the fact that in the same Epistle John told us “ye have heard antichrist shall come” he also told us “this is the spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come and even now already is it in the world” if you want. Doing so will not change the fact that John already told us who the singular antichrist from verse 1John2:18 is and that it was already in the world when John wrote the verse. Do you think the antichrist from1John4:3 is another antichrist they heard would come? Ignoring the truth so you can follow a traditional teaching that has been proven Scripturally bankrupt is to do exactly what Christ warned against in Mark7:13. Traditional doctrinally based arguments do not trump the word of God. If you had hermeneutically sound Scriptural arguments you would prove your point with Scripture but obviously as your tactics reveal that isn’t the case. Like I said as you are led friend, as you are led.

It's very obvious that our Lord Jesus has blinded you away from His simple Word.

Even the subject of 1 John 4 later about the antichrist concept is given in a plural sense about the "many antichrists" idea, and is not talking about John's first clause of 1 John 2:18 about the antichrist they had originally heard that was to come. You're thinking the 1 John 4 Scripture completely takes away John's first clause of 1 John 2:18 about a singular antichrist. It doesn't. He was covering TWO separate antichrist OBJECTS in the 1 John 2:18 verse. But below, he was covering the NEW information he was imparting about the "many antichrists", and that it was already at work...

I Jn 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

So, this begs the question... just who... is that "spirit OF antichrist" from, that the "many antichrist" workers have in them???

If we well know Who "the Spirit of God" is from, then why can't the deceived figure out 'who' "that spirit of antichrist" is from?!?

The answer is simple. The one they get that "spirit of antichrist" from is... the devil himself, Satan, that old serpent, the dragon, Death, the little horn, the vile person, the destroyer, Abaddon, Apollyon, Lucifer, the another Jesus, son of perdition, man of sin, that Wicked, for he has many names, which is why he is the singular antichrist they had originally heard was to come.


John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

Who is that "prince of this world" that our Lord Jesus said "cometh"? Satan, the devil, etc.

That's the one the "many antichrists" get the "spirit of antichrist" from, i.e., the ORIGINAL ANTICHRIST, Satan himself.

Well, where's that original antichrist coming from?? Our Lord Jesus and His showed us that too...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(KJV)

 

[Ridgerunner]

It's very obvious that our Lord Jesus has blinded you away from His simple Word.

Even the subject of 1 John 4 later about the antichrist concept is given in a plural sense about the "many antichrists" idea, and is not talking about John's first clause of 1 John 2:18 about the antichrist they had originally heard that was to come. You're thinking the 1 John 4 Scripture completely takes away John's first clause of 1 John 2:18 about a singular antichrist. It doesn't. He was covering TWO separate antichrist OBJECTS in the 1 John 2:18 verse. But below, he was covering the NEW information he was imparting about the "many antichrists", and that it was already at work...

I Jn 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

So, this begs the question... just who... is that "spirit OF antichrist" from, that the "many antichrist" workers have in them???

If we well know Who "the Spirit of God" is from, then why can't the deceived figure out 'who' "that spirit of antichrist" is from?!?

The answer is simple. The one they get that "spirit of antichrist" from is... the devil himself, Satan, that old serpent, the dragon, Death, the little horn, the vile person, the destroyer, Abaddon, Apollyon, Lucifer, the another Jesus, son of perdition, man of sin, that Wicked, for he has many names, which is why he is the singular antichrist they had originally heard was to come.


John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

Who is that "prince of this world" that our Lord Jesus said "cometh"? Satan, the devil, etc.

That's the one the "many antichrists" get the "spirit of antichrist" from, i.e., the ORIGINAL ANTICHRIST, Satan himself.

Well, where's that original antichrist coming from?? Our Lord Jesus and His showed us that too...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
(KJV)

Veteran please note once again you have chosen to ignore the simple message in John’s first epistle about antichrist/antichrists. Sadly you have again resorted to disparaging remarks and doctrinally based arguments built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.

As I have demonstrated multiple times yes John did say ”as ye have heard antichrist shall come” but he also told us exactly who or what to expect when he said ”this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now already is it in the world.” If it had already come and was in the world already it is not still future. Concerning the beast God’s inspired word tell us beasts are kingdoms and history proves God’s word true.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces
Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Yet you insist that a beast is “the Antichrist”, can you show us where in God’s inspired word it says a beast is “the Anrtichrist”? If not then wouldn’t we better served to use the definition God’s inspired word provides and history proves true over your doctrinally based reasoning that was built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles that stands directly against what God’ s inspired word actually states? Wouldn’t following a doctrinally based argument built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles that directly contradicts what God’s inspired word tells us be doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13? Are you really comfortable doing that?

Be blessed friend. As you are led friend as you are led!

 

[veteran]

Veteran please note once again you have chosen to ignore the simple message in John’s first epistle about antichrist/antichrists. Sadly you have again resorted to disparaging remarks and doctrinally based arguments built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.

As I have demonstrated multiple times yes John did say ”as ye have heard antichrist shall come” but he also told us exactly who or what to expect when he said ”this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now already is it in the world.” If it had already come and was in the world already it is not still future. Concerning the beast God’s inspired word tell us beasts are kingdoms and history proves God’s word true.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces
Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Yet you insist that a beast is “the Antichrist”, can you show us where in God’s inspired word it says a beast is “the Anrtichrist”? If not then wouldn’t we better served to use the definition God’s inspired word provides and history proves true over your doctrinally based reasoning that was built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles that stands directly against what God’ s inspired word actually states? Wouldn’t following a doctrinally based argument built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles that directly contradicts what God’s inspired word tells us be doing exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13? Are you really comfortable doing that?

Be blessed friend. As you are led friend as you are led!

I have ignored nothing. As a matter of fact, I've covered the subject John was speaking of about as deep as it can go per Scripture. The singular antichrist is the devil himself, and that's who the "spirit of antichrist" is from. And his followers are the "many antichrists" with his "spirit of antichrist" in them. It's as simple as that.

By your saying that the antichrist had already come, that's suggesting the false doctrines of men called Preterism. Full Preterists don't believe there will be a literal second coming of our Lord Jesus back to this earth, nor do they believe the Rev.20 thousand years is still future. That's obviously why... you would deny the Biblical fact of the coming future final antichrist for the end of this world.

So you might as well go ahead and join with your "New World Order" buddies and think you can establish a kingdom of the now on earth in place of Christ's future coming Kingdom on earth when He returns in the near future. I assure you though, that New World Order plan is going into the waste basket. It will come to naught. It's going to be like untempered mortar that when a hard rain comes, it'll get washed away and be no more!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have ignored nothing. As a matter of fact, I've covered the subject John was speaking of about as deep as it can go per Scripture. The singular antichrist is the devil himself, and that's who the "spirit of antichrist" is from. And his followers are the "many antichrists" with his "spirit of antichrist" in them. It's as simple as that.

By your saying that the antichrist had already come, that's suggesting the false doctrines of men called Preterism. Full Preterists don't believe there will be a literal second coming of our Lord Jesus back to this earth, nor do they believe the Rev.20 thousand years is still future. That's obviously why... you would deny the Biblical fact of the coming future final antichrist for the end of this world.

So you might as well go ahead and join with your "New World Order" buddies and think you can establish a kingdom of the now on earth in place of Christ's future coming Kingdom on earth when He returns in the near future. I assure you though, that New World Order plan is going into the waste basket. It will come to naught. It's going to be like untempered mortar that when a hard rain comes, it'll get washed away and be no more!

Once again allow me to point out that you have provided doctrinally based arguments while ignoring the definitions the inspired word of God provides. Not one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that antichrist is an end time world leader. Once again here are the verses:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As the words bolded demonstrate John did say "as ye have heard antichrist shall come" but in the same epistle he also told them "this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. So if it was already in the world when John wrote the verse it is not still future.

God's inspired word tells us beasts are kingdoms and history proves God's word true. Daniel's lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. Yet you try to tell us a beast is the antichrist, can you show us where God's inspired word says the beast is the antichrist?

Your implication that I am a preterist is nothing more then fallacy. Preterists believe prophecy was fulfilled in the first century, a belief that I disagree with. Not all prophecy was fulfilled in the first century (the abomination was not set up, the 1260 days or 42 months etc... were not fulfilled in the first century), nor will it all be fulfilled in the last seven years ( but it has unfolded before our eyes over the last 2000 or so years). Personally I don't believe that either the preterist or futurist interpretations are correct. I believe both views have been built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles and promote fallacy as a result.

As far as establishing Christs kingdom here on earth, yes Christ did do that already. Was John lying when he wrote the following verse?
Rev1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
How could John have been in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ if Christ's kingdom is not on earth?
Your continued use of disparaging remarks instead of Scripture, only shows the world that you cannot provide Scripture to support your view and the desperate lengths you will go to in order to cling to a doctrine rather then change your doctrine when Scripture proves it wrong.
As you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[veteran]

Once again allow me to point out that you have provided doctrinally based arguments while ignoring the definitions the inspired word of God provides. Not one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that antichrist is an end time world leader. Once again here are the verses:

He's not just going to be a "world leader", he's going to be a false god and world beast king that you will worship, because you're not paying attention to the whole prophecy which must include Christ's and His Apostles' warnings of a coming false messiah to work great signs and miracles on the earth to deceive the whole world! Because you refuse to learn about that in relation to John's antichrist idea, it means you're already in the hand of that coming false one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He's not just going to be a "world leader", he's going to be a false god and world beast king that you will worship, because you're not paying attention to the whole prophecy which must include Christ's and His Apostles' warnings of a coming false messiah to work great signs and miracles on the earth to deceive the whole world! Because you refuse to learn about that in relation to John's antichrist idea, it means you're already in the hand of that coming false one.

I can show where God’s inspired word actually states that antichrists deny Christ/God and that there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses. (see 1John2:18, 1John2:22, 1John4:3, and 2John1:7) Can you show us one verse that says antichrist is a world leader or false Christ? No you can’t all you can provide is a doctrinally based argument.

I can show where God’s inspired word tells us beasts are kingdoms(see dan7:23) and history proves it true with Daniel’s lion beast being Babylon, the bear Medo-Persia, and the leopard being Greece. Can you show us where God’s inspired word tells us a beast is the antichrist? No you can’t all you can do is spew unproven doctrine.

The best you have been able to do is provide a doctrinally based argument and disparaging comments. Yet you judge me, and accuse me of being blinded and in the hand of the false one. How sad that you have resorted to such desperate tactics to cling to a doctrine that has been proven to be Scripturally bankrupt. Do you really wish to cling to a doctrine you cannot prove true? Are you sure that by doing so you aren’t doing exactly what Christ warned against in Mark7:13?

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.

As you are led friend, as you are led. Be blessed.