How much ungodly behavior do you see in the church?

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Soverign Grace

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My husband and I have been in every denomination, and in spite of warnings in the bible to not show partiality we've seen partiality practiced outright - even by pastors. What was worse, the deluded "Christians" would attempt to super-spiritualize their wrongdoing. I just wonder if this may be the reason that the church lacks so much power today. They don't "clean the inside of the cup."

But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. - James 2:9

I attempted to make sense of the bad behavior we've seen in churches, and found this article about why Christians are so mean. Have others noticed how much overt sin is in the church?

https://redeeminggod.com/10-excuses-christians-give-for-treating-others-badly/
 

Nancy

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My husband and I have been in every denomination, and in spite of warnings in the bible to not show partiality we've seen partiality practiced outright - even by pastors. What was worse, the deluded "Christians" would attempt to super-spiritualize their wrongdoing. I just wonder if this may be the reason that the church lacks so much power today. They don't "clean the inside of the cup."

But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. - James 2:9

I attempted to make sense of the bad behavior we've seen in churches, and found this article about why Christians are so mean. Have others noticed how much overt sin is in the church?

Why are Christians so mean? Here are 10 Excuses Church People Give for Treating Others Badly
Oh, have I ever sister!!! it is such a shame!
 
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Truth

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I have seen very little on this Forum to respond to, until this thread. I only have one thing to Say, and that is :"What Is Sin" Sin is the Transgression of the Torah, if you break one of the least of the Commandment's you have transgressed the LAW= Torah.
So I Must Agree with You Sovereign Grace.
 
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Dave L

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Early on I coined a phrase "I've been treated the worst by the best". And it pertained to "Christian" employers and others in positions of authority who had no mercy when it came to money. But the solution is knowing your heart is right with God before trying to recognize them for what they are.
 
D

Dave L

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The answer to the OP would be, "Oh, about the same as seen right here, or anywhere else."
I don't see ungodly behavior on most forums, but a lack of independent study and denominational blinders we need to overcome.
 
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Marymog

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My husband and I have been in every denomination, and in spite of warnings in the bible to not show partiality we've seen partiality practiced outright - even by pastors. What was worse, the deluded "Christians" would attempt to super-spiritualize their wrongdoing. I just wonder if this may be the reason that the church lacks so much power today. They don't "clean the inside of the cup."

But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. - James 2:9

I attempted to make sense of the bad behavior we've seen in churches, and found this article about why Christians are so mean. Have others noticed how much overt sin is in the church?

https://redeeminggod.com/10-excuses-christians-give-for-treating-others-badly/
Hi,

Frustrating.....Isn't it? All humans fall short of the glory of God therefore all churches will have "wrongdoing" in it. We, as humans, will never make sense of it. If you are looking for the perfect Church with no "wrongdoing" or "partiality" you won't find it.

May I suggest that instead you find the Church spoken of in scripture (the pillar and foundation of truth) and be faithful to it.

My two cents worth...Mary
 

amadeus

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@Soverign Grace
With regard to the OP and the ways of men, in churches or not go back to Jeremiah's words:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Man could not do it when Jeremiah wrote that and he cannot do it now. Our prayer should be here:

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

And here…:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

God will do it right IF, we trust Him instead of man including ourselves and our own brain.

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27

Yes, all things possible with God, but we must ask of Him and ask correctly:

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3


If we are not called to do so, we certainly cannot fix any of those churches mentioned filled with respecters of persons. We cannot even fix ourselves. God is the only answer. He has this all in mind but we must do things His Way. For this reason he sent His Son, Jesus... Now we have the Helper needed but some simply get to a place, not the end of the road, and stop and quit asking and quit talking God. Is God our friend or not?
 
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Soverign Grace

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I have seen very little on this Forum to respond to, until this thread. I only have one thing to Say, and that is :"What Is Sin" Sin is the Transgression of the Torah, if you break one of the least of the Commandment's you have transgressed the LAW= Torah.
So I Must Agree with You Sovereign Grace.
Do you think this is why the church lacks power today? I like the old-time writers and there seems to be so much lost, from bygone eras. I haven't seen holiness in church - I've seen people jockeying for power in many. Another family that owned a church we went to were corrupt. I've seen overt partiality. A pastor in one church praised a certain family for doing a "great job" on their family, while remaining silent about the rest of the families in church that day. Of course the specific family he praised sat there with such prideful, smug, looks on their faces, that I wonder why no one saw the apple-polishing pastor schmoozing one of the influential members of the church as feeding pride.

I know the old saying that it should begin with us, but I wonder if there is something we can do to help bring about revival.
 
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Dave L

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I'm glad others have seen this. What did you see - partiality? Do you think this is the reason the church lacks power?
The church has plenty of power if you pick the right one. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail (be able to protect themselves) against it.
 

Jane_Doe22

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How much ungodly behavior do you see in the church?
The church is a hospital for sinners, not a resort for perfect people. I have seen lots of sinful people in church, and people doing sins in church venues/positions. I don't expect perfection remotely, or even always good behavior. That being said, I do think it is a hugely important thing for a sinner to be in the hospital (aka church), and to be working with the doctor (aka Christ). That is what we should be striving for, and to being working with our own doctor (aka Christ). Bemoaning "oh somebody should fix this" or "the church is so weak", aren't productive and very frequently a distraction from each of us working with our doctor.
 
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Soverign Grace

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Early on I coined a phrase "I've been treated the worst by the best". And it pertained to "Christian" employers and others in positions of authority who had no mercy when it came to money. But the solution is knowing your heart is right with God before trying to recognize them for what they are.
I've been doing that recently - making sure my own heart was right - "taking the log out of my own eye" - but I'm glad to hear that others have experienced this. I used to trust people just because they said they were "Christian." Now I don't. The worst thing done to me was done by another christian. My children and I have been hurt in the church. I've been "cheated by the best" also.

Is there some way we can try to bring back that holiness lacking in the church? I'm not an influential member of any church or organization, but Christ used unlearned fishermen to do His work. I just wonder if we can begin a revival or something. I know a lot of people believe these are the end times and things are going to get worse, but until God ends it, I wonder if we can do something.
 
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Soverign Grace

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Hi,

Frustrating.....Isn't it? All humans fall short of the glory of God therefore all churches will have "wrongdoing" in it. We, as humans, will never make sense of it. If you are looking for the perfect Church with no "wrongdoing" or "partiality" you won't find it.

May I suggest that instead you find the Church spoken of in scripture (the pillar and foundation of truth) and be faithful to it.

My two cents worth...Mary
I've definitely seen some churches worse than others. We left several churches because of the hypocrisy of the leadership. I like the church we're in now, but I don't see a real commitment to holy behavior. Has anyone ever addressed this at your church? Maybe we can start a revival and maybe the church will get some of its power back.
 
D

Dave L

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I've been doing that recently - making sure my own heart was right - "taking the log out of my own eye" - but I'm glad to hear that others have experienced this. I used to trust people just because they said they were "Christian." Now I don't. The worst thing done to me was done by another christian. My children and I have been hurt in the church. I've been "cheated by the best" also.

Is there some way we can try to bring back that holiness lacking in the church? I'm not an influential member of any church or organization, but Christ used unlearned fishermen to do His work. I just wonder if we can begin a revival or something. I know a lot of people believe these are the end times and things are going to get worse, but until God ends it, I wonder if we can do something.
My exposure to mean spirited Christians has always been in the work place. They are just fine while in Church. And I wonder if most of it stems from churches today serving as evangelistic centers where the believers grow old never hearing anything other than what the seekers hear. It seems teaching the deeper things of the Spirit (Sermon on the Mount, etc.) is lacking in most cases. We end up knowing what to think as Christians but not how to live as Christians.
 

Marymog

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I've definitely seen some churches worse than others. We left several churches because of the hypocrisy of the leadership. I like the church we're in now, but I don't see a real commitment to holy behavior. Has anyone ever addressed this at your church? Maybe we can start a revival and maybe the church will get some of its power back.
IMO....You are putting to much emphasis on what you see in other peoples behavior or lack of holy behavior. In the end you will only be held accountable for what you do....not what they do OR don't do. If you are looking for the perfect Church with no "wrongdoing" or "partiality" or a "real commitment to holy behavior" you won't find it. Find the Church spoken of in scripture (the pillar and foundation of truth) and be faithful to it.

Mary
 

Soverign Grace

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@Soverign Grace
With regard to the OP and the ways of men, in churches or not go back to Jeremiah's words:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

Man could not do it when Jeremiah wrote that and he cannot do it now. Our prayer should be here:

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

And here…:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

God will do it right IF, we trust Him instead of man including ourselves and our own brain.

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27

Yes, all things possible with God, but we must ask of Him and ask correctly:

"Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:2-3


If we are not called to do so, we certainly cannot fix any of those churches mentioned filled with respecters of persons. We cannot even fix ourselves. God is the only answer. He has this all in mind but we must do things His Way. For this reason he sent His Son, Jesus... Now we have the Helper needed but some simply get to a place, not the end of the road, and stop and quit asking and quit talking God. Is God our friend or not?

I enjoyed reading those Scriptures. I wonder if we CAN change those churches however. Somebody has to have vision - why not us? Look at when God asked Moses to save His people - Moses said "send someone else" because he was slow of speech.

I just wonder in the hearts of other believers, if there is any desire to see revival take hold. I think back to my grandmothers days - she took me to church a few times and there was a sense of holiness - or maybe it was because I was young I sensed things more - I don't know. I experienced it personally because I learned my great grandfather was a pastor, but I wasn't raised Christian - someone in my lineage dropped the ball.

When you read the old-time writers there seems to be more of a holiness. It's something I crave but don't experience much. I know the place to start is within, but I'd like a return of morality and I wondered if we can bring that about by restoring the church back to power. It seems so weak now. What's scary is that when you bring a problem to the attention of some leaders, they actually claim godliness when it's plain as the nose on your face they're sinning. I've seen that some leaders are filled with pride and believe that their every action is sacrosanct. I don't think they question themselves and their motives enough nor did they ask the congregation to question theirs.

I did read something recently about a pastor who took over a church in CA. I believe it was Chip Ingram - but I could be mistaken. He said that he learned that a local evil group was praying against all the churches in the area and he found a goats head across from his church. He said within a period of time, several leaders fell within the local churches in the area - getting caught in adultery and other things. So we know that Satan is going to target Christians with severe tempting. But it seems that there isn't enough praying or protection for that type of thing.
 

Soverign Grace

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The church is a hospital for sinners, not a resort for perfect people. I have seen lots of sinful people in church, and people doing sins in church venues/positions. I don't expect perfection remotely, or even always good behavior. That being said, I do think it is a hugely important thing for a sinner to be in the hospital (aka church), and to be working with the doctor (aka Christ). That is what we should be striving for, and to being working with our own doctor (aka Christ). Bemoaning "oh somebody should fix this" or "the church is so weak", aren't productive and very frequently a distraction from each of us working with our doctor.
I've heard that said by people who accept or excuse sinful behavior instead of trying to correct it. In fact, it's used as a crutch from what I saw. "Yeah, we're all sinners, and if I pick my buddy to go on this trip to evangelize the Bahamas, then get over it!" And why do you have to get the congregation to pay for your "missionary trip" when you can walk out the front door of the church and evangelize? We were in another church and asked to give an "extra donation" for "families in the church to send their children to Christian school." Good works, right? Then why was that church okay with taking donations from my family yet never offered us any money to help our children go to Christian school? It's hypocrisy.

If someone accidentally slights another in church, yes I think we have to overlook some offenses. The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression. Proverbs 19:11 but when people begin excusing ugly behavior with well-worn cliches then there's a problem. They aren't being honest if a real problem has been brought to their attention. There are a-billion-and-one ways to be deceptive, and I've seen such deception in the church.
 
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