How to forgive?

[arunangelo]

Jesus was wounded for our transgressions, was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth (Isaiah 53: 5 &7). Furthermore, during his suffering and death he forgave his persecutors (Luke 23:34); and was concerned about the suffering that would come upon us rather than his own suffering (Luke 23:28). We too must love one another as he has loved us; quietly bear each other’s burdens; forgive without any limit and bind each other’s wounds.

 

[Dan57]

We too must love one another as he has loved us; quietly bear each other’s burdens; forgive without any limit and bind each other’s wounds.

I personally don't think that we're required to forgive without any limit. I think we should forgive those who want forgiveness or those who are ignorant of their transgression against us, but to forgive someone who continues to offend me without any regret or remorse would pretty much make me a masochist. JMO "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him" (Luke 17:3)

 

[aspen]

I agree with the OP. We are called to forgive; I believe it is the highest form of love we can offer another person/ourselves - it is definitely a Good that God brought out of our Fall in the Garden.

 

[Elle]

I've struggled with this area of forgiveness. When all passages that speak of forgiveness, forgive and forgiven are brought together and divided accordingly a picture begins to emerge. In the Lord's prayer Yeshua said "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." OK fair enough. The question that came to mind was "How does God forgive us our sins?". Well, because we ASK for forgiveness. So in like manner, one who has transgressed against us cannot be forgiven their sins unless they asks for forgiveness. In Luke 17:3 it says: "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke (correct) him; and if he repent, forgive him." This adds more to the equation, before they even asks for forgiveness, we must correct them. If they repent (ask for forgiveness) we are to forgive in return. We are to forgive them 70 x 7, meaning always if they ask. Notice who it is we are to forgive, our brethren. Who are our brethren? Those who do the will of God. I assume this to mean that forgiveness does not extend to those outside the church, but I may be wrong. I also noticed that everyone who came to Yeshua in faith he healed and forgave them. I would assume their faith was an act of admission of their sin and were seeking out Yeshua for forgiveness. There was the parable of the unjust steward who sought out forgiveness from the king. The king was moved with compassion and forgave him his debt. This forgiven steward, when asked for forgiveness by a fellow servant, would not grant him the same forgiveness that the king extended to him. Then the king handed him over to the tormentors. So the way I see it, at least for now, is we cannot forgive someone unless they asks and when they do we must forgive them. I saw you cited the passage about Yeshua when he said "forgive then Father, for they know not what they do." This passage from my understanding was not in any of the oldest manuscripts and was most likely added at some later point, probably to claim a false doctrine as being true. I personally believe this is the case, because it contradicts all the passages that say the transgressor must asks for forgiveness.

 

[Dan57]

I saw you cited the passage about Yeshua when he said "forgive then Father, for they know not what they do." This passage from my understanding was not in any of the oldest manuscripts and was most likely added at some later point, probably to claim a false doctrine as being true. I personally believe this is the case, because it contradicts all the passages that say the transgressor must asks for forgiveness.

If someone transgresses against you unknowingly, then how can they be culpable? Not forgiving a person who unknowingly hurts you means that your condemning them for being unaware and ignorant. It would be like slapping a child for spilling their milk. Refusing to forgive a person who unknowingly offends you would be like God sending a person to hell for not believing and accepting Christ when they never had an opportunity to hear the gospel. I believe Jesus forgave those who crucified him because they didn't know who he was. They were soldiers doing their job and probably thought they were just following orders by executing the sentences prescribed for a criminals. Jesus only asked the Father to forgive those who didn't know what they were doing. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Elle]

Hi Dan57,
You said:
"Not forgiving a person who unknowingly hurts you means that your condemning them for being unaware and ignorant. It would be like slapping a child for spilling their milk. Refusing to forgive a person who unknowingly offends you would be like God sending a person to hell for not believing and accepting Christ when they never had an opportunity to hear the gospel. I believe Jesus forgave those who crucified him because they didn't know who he was. They were soldiers doing their job and probably thought they were just following orders by executing the sentences prescribed for a criminals. Jesus only asked the Father to forgive those who didn't know what they were doing. Just my opinion of course."

Good question. I think the key lies in that fact that Yeshua used the word "brother". Like I mentioned in my above post, your brethren are those who do the will of the Father. These are not people outside the church, but within. Some may be starting their walk with God and that is why Yeshua instructed us to correct our brethren. Correction comes before forgiveness, if they asks for forgiveness we are not to withhold forgiving them. The knowing they sinned comes from the brother who corrects them by showing them what God's word says on the matter. The brother that does the correcting would reason with that person showing them through God's word how they transgressed against them. If they failed to hear them, the corrector was to take the matter before 2 or 3 other witnesses, if they failed to hear them, it was then taken to the church. If the transgressor still would not hear the church the transgressor was to be considered as a heathen man and a publican, otherwise a sinner. This is outlined in Matthew 18:15-17. Again Yeshua uses the word brother in this passage. Yeshua had no need to forgive anyone the day he was crucified. The centurion declared at the crucifixion "Truly this was the Son of God." I bet he went and asked for forgiveness when he realized what he had been a part of and Yeshua's blood would have covered him. I'm sticking with what the oldest manuscripts say, and that statement by Yeshua is not in them.

Besides that, Israel and now the church, were/are to remain separated from the worldly people of the world and holy unto God. (God does expect us to share the good news with them though.) Even when they were taken into captivity, they were not to follow after the ways of the people they were captive amongst, but more often than not, they did involve themselves. Lets say you are right, which I am not saying I am right either, but let's say you are. Suppose you know a person who doesn't believe in God or the concept of sin. Suppose they killed a family member, were found guilty, and sentenced to life in prison. This same person never once during the whole trial said he was sorry for what he had done or asked for your forgiveness, would you feel obliged to extend forgiveness to this person. They don't feel they have done anything wrong, no wrong, no sin. They have to be first convicted of their sin the same way we are. Yeshua's blood was shed for the whole world, but only covers those would admit they have sinned, not those who continue in sin. Let's use another example and say someone transgressed against you, non-brother, and you went up to them and said "I forgive you for your transgression against me". They would probably say, "What transgression? I didn't do anything to you, quit judging me." You have 2 options, to convince them they are wrong and end up in a heated argument or forgive them anyway without them ever admitting their transgression. God doesn't forgive us unless we ask. If that wasn't the case, their would be no need to to purge the world of the wicked at the end times. God is not going to destroy those who have never come to know him. In the end times He will pour out His Holy Spirit on all, so that they may know him. Those who refuse the truth will be destroyed. Those who accept the truth will live during the 1000 years to come to know God more fully, to eventually become a finished product. In Joel 2:32 God said that whoever calls upon the name of Yahweh will be saved. The example of a child you used above is not the same, we are speaking of adults. It is a parents responsibility to raise their child to know God's Law so that when they are adults they will hopefully live by it. Anyhow, this is how I see it, but I am always willing to change when more truth is revealed and believe me, I have thought upon the same lines that you have before coming to this conclusion. All I know is God is not going to forgive me, unless I asks. This would mean I am a believer, for only a believer can be convinced of their sin. One more thing I might mention, the souls under the altar. They were wondering how long it would be before God avenged their blood, it's obvious the people who killed them never repented of what they had done. I would think if the souls under the altar had forgiven them, then God would have no need to take vengeance against them. i suppose you could look at it another way and say that the souls under the altar did forgive their transgressors, but they never asked God for forgiveness. BTW, as an example, if someone pushes past me in a public place and does not apologize, I don't hold it against them. I may think they are rude, but nothing more, but if someone killed one of my family members and never sought forgiveness, I would not forgive them. What was forgiven on earth is forgiven in Heaven and what is not forgiven on earth is not forgiven in Heaven according to Matthew 16:19 and John 20:23. You can read the commentaries under each passage at: http://bible.cc/john/20-23.htm and http://bible.cc/matthew/16-19.htm

OK, you are right and I am wrong. I forgot about this passage: Mark 11:24-26 - "Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.