Hyper-Grace

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Romans 4:13-17 KJV
13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Grace, God's favor shown to us in giving to us Christ Jesus.

Grace . . .

Colossians 2:11-14 KJV
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Vs. 14, the "handwriting", this is the certificate of indebtedness. He has cleared our debt.

Ephesians 4:31-32 KJV
31) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV
19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Amazing Grace! How sweet the sound!

Do you see God's grace as an opportunity to sin?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hyper-grace?

Romans 5:5-11 KJV
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the (reconciliation).

It's all about Jesus. We only receive His gift. His gracious gift!

Receive and rejoice!

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Hyper-Grace?

Are you now promoting Hyper-grace (a false doctrine)? The Bible quotations are about grace, not Hyper-Grace. Perhaps you are not familiar with this insidious doctrine.

 

[Enoch111]

For those who are not familiar with the false teaching of Hyper Grace, here is what they believe and teach (as indicated on other websites):

1. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

2. Hyper-grace rubs up against the teaching that there is no need for a moral law due to Jesus' sacrificial death and fulfillment of the Old Testament Law. This is called antinomianism and is directly refuted by Paul in Romans 6:1–2: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

3. Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

4. Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

Also, 1 John 1:9 gives clear instruction to believers about confessing sin. It begins with the word if: “If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is a cause/effect statement implying that we cannot have the second without the first. As blood-bought children of God, we do not continue to confess our sin in order to be saved from hell. We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

Hyper-grace teaches an outsized theology of God's grace that overshadows our need for confession of sin and repentance. Teachers of hyper-grace fail to note God's other attributes of holiness and His call for followers to be righteous. They teach that there is no need to deal with our sin since God has forgiven all our past, present, and future sin.

 

[marks]

Are you now promoting Hyper-grace (a false doctrine)? The Bible quotations are about grace, not Hyper-Grace. Perhaps you are not familiar with this insidious doctrine.

People define "hyper grace" various ways.

I'm pointing out that God's grace towards us in in the extreme.

Read what I wrote. That's what I'm promoting.

Much love!!!

 

[marks]

1. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

It's interesting to me how this all gets mixed up together.

God sees us as we are. He doesn't pretend we're something that we are not.

Are we able to do the same? See ourselves as we really are?

Ephesians 4:20-24 KJV
20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Are we under the Law?

Romans 7:3-6 KJV
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

that believers are not responsible for their sin;

Responsible . . . in what way do you mean?

Bound by Jesus' teaching? Of course we are! That which is given to us. Are you supposed to be tithing your Thyme? Is this what you mean?

and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist.

I'll leave this for you to say.

Concering Law . . .

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 KJV
19) For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

One man's "antinomianism" is another man's serving Jesus Christ, as we express our faith through our love for others.

I often find charges of antinomianism to be without merit, misplaced, and used to cast aspersions.

Recognizing that we are not under the Mosaic Law, and instead serve Jesus Christ directly, personally, is NOT antinomianism. We are under the Law of Christ. A couple of things right off the top . . . He let's me eat shrimp. He sometimes has me working on a Saturday. I'm not required to appear in Jerusalem 3 times a year. Of course, He commands me to love others, which is a lot more demanding than those.

Much love!

 

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2. Hyper-grace rubs up against the teaching that there is no need for a moral law due to Jesus' sacrificial death and fulfillment of the Old Testament Law. This is called antinomianism and is directly refuted by Paul in Romans 6:1–2: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

What does that mean, no need for a "moral law"?

Are you still talking about the Covenant with Isreal made at Mount Horeb?

Of course we're saved from sin.

And remember . . . for those who hold to Law Keeping . . .


Romans 7:3-6 KJV
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The motions of sin, which were by the Law. Do you realize what Law does in you?

1 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV
8) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

The law was make for the lawless and disobedient. If you seek to take it on yourself to keep the Law, though God said you've been delivered from the Law, watch what it does in you. It won't make you more righteous. It WILL stir up your flesh to sin.

Real grace . . . we are freed from that rat race.

Much love!

 

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3. Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

Again . . . we've been delivered from the Law. We are dead to the Law. The Law was made for the Lawless, the ungodly.

Not sure what you mean by irrelevant.

But let's take just a snippet of the Sermon on the Mount, and tell me what you think.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Does this mean that we, as we are trusting Christ to save us, having forgiven our sins, does this mean that if you don't forgive someone, all that goes away?

Or is it more like this:

Ephesians 4:31-32 KJV
31) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Are we, New Testament Christians, are to told to forgive so that we can obtain forgiveness? Or are we told to forgive because we have already obtained forgiveness?

What are your thoughts?

Much love!

 

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4. Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

I hear "convict" used a lot. Some mean, you will feel bad when you sin. Of course, we know what conviction means in the court system. You are guilty.

Does the Holy Spirit tell you that you are guilty of sin? Should you feel the condemnation? Does God mean for you to feel condemned and separated from Him when you are His child? I don't think so.

Will the Holy Spirit bring to you attention things you need to know?

If I have a bad attitude about something, and then I yell at my wife, and leave without apology, God will work in me to correct these things, to remove this bad behavior, and in it's place put love, loving behavior. However, this is not the same thing as being guilty of sin, which would result in separation from God, spiritual death, condemnation to the lake of fire.

Which version of "convict" did you have in mind? Or something else?

Much love!

 

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Clue . . . It's a baby/bathwater thing . . .

 

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Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

For a short response, if you are "confessing your sins" because you seek to obtain forgiveness for them, I'd argue that as a born again Christian, you've already been forgiven.

If you are "confessing your sins" to your brothers to seek prayer, more power to you! I'm pretty certain everyone goes about that rather selectively, but I'm sure there are exceptions to that.

If you are confessing to God because it makes you feel better, I'd wonder why that would be so, and maybe there's still an undercurrent of a sense of not being forgiven.

There is a lot behind why different people confess their sins.

Confession itself, homologia, it means to "say the same thing". Are you in agreement with God over what sin is? Over what you've done?

Are we talking about that you are supposed to confess every sin you commit? Those that you dislike most? Those that the Holy Spirit brings to your mind?

Having been forgiven of sin by God, and knowing that others can pray more on point if we are more forthcoming, where do you find additional need for confession?

To be clear, I'm just used to talking with God about literally everything. I suppose I've come to not think so much in terms of confessing my sins to God, we already pretty much know what they are. I like to spend more time talking about why I still do these things, so I can learn, and grow. There's so much more than Priest/penitant.

I get more of the idea that Jesus is my Priest so that He can be my brother.

Much love!

 

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We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

Amazing Grace is realizing that since my separation from God was brought about by sin, and that sin is removed in Christ, there is no "reestablishing intimacy" with God.

Do you realize, the very best way to cut sin off in it's tracks is knowing that it doesn't separate you from God? God is here with me, as close as He ever is, as loving as He ever is, as powerful as He ever is, with His eternal righteousness and holiness, to empower my life No Matter What.

Because my reconciliation is in Christ and not in myself. It's found in what Jesus did, not in anything I do or don't do. Dwell on that a moment. I don't earn my reconciliation through some sort of personal holiness. It's in Christ, and Christ does not change. So my reconciliation remains.

Think of your worst derailment into sin. Well, you don't have to, just the same . . . right there, while you are acting the worst you ever do, God is with you in love and grace and power, and all you need do, is choose to trust that He is there to deliver you and He will. If you want. And if there is any hesitancy, talk with Him about it.

This truly amazing grace. Grace to find help in times of truest need. ANY need.

You say we are "positionally righteous", and "practically sinful".

Is that what this sounds like?

Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hyper-grace teaches an outsized theology of God's grace that overshadows our need for confession of sin and repentance. Teachers of hyper-grace fail to note God's other attributes of holiness and His call for followers to be righteous. They teach that there is no need to deal with our sin since God has forgiven all our past, present, and future sin.

Outsized . . . overshadows . . . no need to deal with our sin . . . What do these things mean? Colorful, but it leaves me wondering.

How big of a grace do you want?

1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Resist sin by force of will. I'll resist sin by running in to God's most gracious love. I know what works in my life. And it's not force of will.


Gird up your mind . . . and hope for His grace.

Much love!

 

[Cooper]

People define "hyper grace" various ways.

I'm pointing out that God's grace towards us in in the extreme.

Read what I wrote. That's what I'm promoting.

Much love!!!

Read what God does to the wicked and ask yourself what God does to those outside his will, regardless of whether you believe yourself to have been 'elected.' I sometimes think people are living in a world of make-belief. Remember what Paul said about persevering to the end.

There's no messing with the Almighty, grace or no grace.
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[Renniks]

Are you now promoting Hyper-grace (a false doctrine)? The Bible quotations are about grace, not Hyper-Grace. Perhaps you are not familiar with this insidious doctrine.

How much grace do we receive before it becomes hyper? Can you measure grace?

 

[CoreIssue]

Romans 8 is once saved always saved. Persevering to the end is not about salvation but rewards.

The Bible makes it clear that those who are in danger of leaving gone cannot leave. God will even take their lives to keep them saved.

Yes, there are those who have operated outside of God's will. That does not mean they lose salvation.

 

[Cooper]

Romans 8 is once saved always saved. Persevering to the end is not about salvation but rewards.

The Bible makes it clear that those who are in danger of leaving gone cannot leave. God will even take their lives to keep them saved.

Yes, there are those who have operated outside of God's will. That does not mean they lose salvation.

.
Backsliders?

Israel did it. Millions have died in a state of apostasy.

There is no condemnation for those who REMAIN and PERSEVERE in Christ Jesus, or as the Israelites knew him, the I AM.
.

 

[CoreIssue]

1 Corinthians 5
New International Version
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Romans 8 says nothing can remove us from God's hand. We are predestined all the way to glorification.

 

[Enoch111]

How much grace do we receive before it becomes hyper? Can you measure grace?

Kindly read my post #4 to see how the doctrine of grace is DISTORTED by the Hyper-Grace preachers.

 

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How much grace do we receive before it becomes hyper? Can you measure grace?

God's grace to us is "hyper", as I see it! God's grace is complete.

God has reconciled the WORLD to Himself, EVERYONE.

I heard a preacher yesterday talking about the different ways people see God's forgiveness. He asked,

Do you see God's forgiveness total? That is, Jesus carries away the sins of the world? That God doesn't interact with people now on the basis of sin. Now that sins are gone, He interacts with people on the basis of faith, do they believe? And we should be that same way? Not counting anything against anyone?

Do you see God's forgiveness conditional? God doesn't hold your sins against you, but He does hold them against the unbelievers, and we should too?

Do you see God's forgiveness incremental? We confess and He forgives, then we confess, and He forgives more? We confess again, and again He forgives?

His point was towards fellowship, that as we have different ideas on this, it radically affects our interactions with others. I'd add that our ideas also affect our interactions with God.

As I understand holiness, in my poor and limited way, it sure seems to me that for me to be in communion the Holy Creator, that's Hyper-Grace!

Much love!