I’m in a strange place: very conservative, but not Christian

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Romanov2488

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don’t believe in god? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?
 
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Philip James

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?

Hi Romanov,

Welcome to the board. I know many people who are conservative and not Christinian. Many of course belong to other faiths such as muslims, jews etc..

What is interesting to me, is that Christian morality seems to be split both on the 'left' and on the 'right' ..

So i dont think you can pigeonhole Christians one way or the other..

To be sure its puzzling to me why Christians will overlook the slaughter of the innocents through abortion to support a party that is promising to build shelters for the homeless.. (For example)

I think your Orthodox upbringing probably planted good a good moral foundation for you, and that whether you have rejected the Faith, or just not really explored it, that influences your political judgements.

Further, as 'left' parties in many nations move more and more towards what i would call the 'loony left' and communism they become less and less palatable to anyone who has a sense of morality and personal responsibilty..

My .02

Again welcome!

Pax et Bonum
 
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LearningToLetGo

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People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you.

Be careful with labels. They advertise themselves as descriptors but all too often become pre/proscriptions instead. For example, a "Christian" label purports to mean "a follower of Jesus" but far too often warps into "a political conservative", which means adopting lock-step the cannon of conservative policy. I adamantly reject this which is why I prefer to throw labels out the window whenever possible. Labels are, in essence, idolotry.
 
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farouk

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Be careful with labels. They advertise themselves as descriptors but all too often become pre/proscriptions instead. For example, a "Christian" label purports to mean "a follower of Jesus" but far too often warps into "a political conservative", which means adopting lock-step the cannon of conservative policy. I adamantly reject this which is why I prefer to throw labels out the window whenever possible. Labels are, in essence, idolotry.
Interesting perspective..........
 

Angelina

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don’t believe in god? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?
This is definitely an American thing because in NZ, we are either christians or not. It has nothing to do with our political lean.


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lforrest

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don’t believe in god? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?
Welcome to the forum.

It isn't that unusual to be very Conservative and not Christian. I've run into people like that before. Blame for the woes of society is laid on the Christians by both ends of the political spectrum.

This on the spirit of the Antichrist stirring up the people like locusts. But in place of Christ, it is authoritarian, a liar, and downright evil. It is left and right, whichever is convenient to achieve domination.
 

Bob Carabbio

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don’t believe in god? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?

You're apparently a common normal spiritually unregenerate person - an "agnostic" as it were. Nothing unusual at all.

Your solution is to be Born Again of the Holy Spirit, so that you can SEE what the "Spiritual side" of it is all about. OR you can stay in spiritual death, and suffer the eternal consequences thereof.
 
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Enoch111

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Can anyone offer any insight into this?
Sure. You are schizophrenic. :p So you need a shrink. But the shrink probably needs a shrink also. BTW the Romanovs won't be able to help you either.

All kidding aside, what you need to do is get serious about your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether you believe it or not, you will give account to Him one day.
 

Romanov2488

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As far as Christianity is concerned, the biggest thing holding me back about it is not so much the hotly debated topics like what the Bible says about women, slavery, God razing cities…but more the claims of God’s existence. All that other stuff can be debated to death with Christian apologetics actually offering some very solid arguments to clarify “so called contradictions in the Bible”. I don’t care too much about the extent of hypocrisy within Christianity as much as I care about an actual supernatural being that exists.

I can’t believe in something I can’t see evidence of and by the same token I also can’t make any assertions that God doesn’t exist either. There are just many logical fallacies concerning the existence of God on both Christians and the atheist’s side. One of them is the fallacy that just because there’s trees and birds, boom..God automatically exists; that doesn’t convince me.

In fact I still attend church from time to time because I like being around somewhat like-minded people.
 
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Romanov2488

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Well you certainly can't see the air you breath, but if you were placed in a room without air, you would soon be dead. So seein' is not always believin'.

We can see the air we breathe. Ever been outside during winter and exhaled? If you’re exhaling a gas, it must of been inhaled too. This is exactly what I mean. Even when someone tries to offer a comparison to believing in God, it always turns out not being too great of a comparison after all logically speaking. Let me help you out a bit more. Let’s say you offered a different comparison instead of air that we can see with our eyes…something like infrared radiation. That we cannot see with our eyes directly. But through the use of special instruments, we can. So even that is thrown out

In fact, my problem isn’t even Christianity. It’s believing in a God I can’t see and that’s not exclusive to Christianity only. You also have the Muslims and the Jews who believe in one god only.

It all boils down to, “Show me evidence of this god which can’t be seen.” I’m not the one making any assertions about god, theists are (the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims). The burden of proof is on them and unfortunately their actual “evidence” is not very compelling.
 
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LearningToLetGo

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It all boils down to, “Show me evidence of this god which can’t be seen.” I’m not the one making any assertions about god, theists are. The burden of proof is on them and unfortunately their actual “evidence” is not very compelling.

I hear you, and you make a compelling argument.

Aside from a bona-fide spiritual experience, for example: meeting God, there's really only one argument that I have found irrefutable. That's the chain of cause-and-effect.

Every effect has a cause, even if we can't know it. If you follow this chain back far enough (i.e. a recursive algorithm) you find one of two base conditions must exist:

1) It goes on forever. Effect < cause < effect < cause forever without end.
2) A singular cause without its own cause started the entire process up.

If the first option appeals to you then accept the mystery of existence. You're in good company. If you accept the second option then congratulations, you've found God. You're also in good company.
 
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Dropship

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It all boils down to, “Show me evidence of this god which can’t be seen.” ..
..The burden of proof is on them and unfortunately their actual “evidence” is not very compelling.

Problem there is that atheists wouldn't accept any evidence at all..:)
What "evidence" would you accept as 100% proof of God?
PS- Full marks to Dawkins for saying-

rel-Dawks-not-sure.jpg
 

Aunty Jane

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I hear you, and you make a compelling argument.

Aside from a bona-fide spiritual experience, for example: meeting God, there's really only one argument that I have found irrefutable. That's the chain of cause-and-effect.

Every effect has a cause, even if we can't know it. If you follow this chain back far enough (i.e. a recursive algorithm) you find one of two base conditions must exist:

1) It goes on forever. Effect < cause < effect < cause forever without end.
2) A singular cause without its own cause started the entire process up.

If the first option appeals to you then accept the mystery of existence. You're in good company. If you accept the second option then congratulations, you've found God. You're also in good company.
@Romanov2488 This is virtually what I was going to say also.....”cause and effect” is a sound scientific principle as is the other sound scientific argument that “all life comes from pre-existing life’......the more you consult with nature, the more you see design and nothing “designed” has no designer. “Mother” Nature can do nothing without “Father” God.

Let’s take the computer we are all using as an example of design. Who would ever claim that our computers just appeared out of nowhere fully functioning, allowing us to communicate with people all over the world using an invisible signal beamed by satellites located in space?

But the computer has many components, all necessary for the thing to function as it was ‘designed’ to.
Each component was individually ‘designed’ so that when integrated with other specifically designed components, would all contribute to the full working model.

But then once the machinery is constructed, again in a very specific order, unless it is connected to a power source, it isn’t much use.
The power source is another specifically designed system and is used to make the machinery perform as it was designed to. But wait a minute.....if we want to communicate with other computers around the world, we need the Internet....another specifically designed system that allows us to do this. But again, what about the satellites that beam a straight signal around a circular planet? Who designed them and put them in their orbit? All these things have one element in common...they are all the product of intelligent design.

Do we ever stop to think how well these things are designed individually to all work together to give us these instruments that we use daily and often take for granted?

So now, what about the human body and the miraculous brain that drives it? Can you say with any certainty that something so complex was not “designed” by someone with superior intelligence? Not only the miracle that such living things exist in an environment designed to support their existence in an ongoing way, but that they have the ability to reproduce themselves using a code that is passed from one generation to the next. We are only just coming to terms with what DNA is and what it does. Did it just come out of nowhere?

What about our senses? We have the main 5, but again, if we could not see, what is the point of all the beauty that surrounds us?
If we could not hear what is the point of music or bird song or the sound of human voices?
If we could not taste, what is the point of all the different flavours we can savor?
If we could not smell things, what is the point of all those different fragrances and aromas that we can enjoy or to warn us if something is not good to consume? Or if there is something burning or rotten?
Our sense of touch is also a beautiful thing. We are tactile and so we touch things and it engenders feelings.

Can you not see the Creator’s hand in all those things? And....I have only scratched the surface....
 

BeyondET

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We can see the air we breathe. Ever been outside during winter and exhaled? If you’re exhaling a gas, it must of been inhaled too. This is exactly what I mean. Even when someone tries to offer a comparison to believing in God, it always turns out not being too great of a comparison after all logically speaking. Let me help you out a bit more. Let’s say you offered a different comparison instead of air that we can see with our eyes…something like infrared radiation. That we cannot see with our eyes directly. But through the use of special instruments, we can. So even that is thrown out

In fact, my problem isn’t even Christianity. It’s believing in a God I can’t see and that’s not exclusive to Christianity only. You also have the Muslims and the Jews who believe in one god only.

It all boils down to, “Show me evidence of this god which can’t be seen.” I’m not the one making any assertions about god, theists are (the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims). The burden of proof is on them and unfortunately their actual “evidence” is not very compelling.

You know what time is and probably believe in time but you can't touch it or see it, so how did it start?
 

Romanov2488

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You know what time is and probably believe in time but you can't touch it or see it, so how did it start?

We see change. A seed grows into a plant, a timelapse of it quickly reveals the change it’s gone through. Time is quantifiable, just look at any clock. God himself however, you would be unable to quantify since a property of God is timelessness, being eternal and outside of time according to theology.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t worship science either. I see the argument of, “Yeah well science doesn’t have all the answers.” This is true and it is indeed a gap…but that gap does not automatically mean “it must be God.” All I’m saying is…there is a gap. Science can’t prove god, theists can’t prove god. What I can do though, is point out how their claims and assertions of God’s existence are logically and evidently unsubstantiated in the very end.

I appreciate the Christians (and any religious person for that matter) can admit that in the end it’s all just faith. “You just gotta have faith.” And I don’t operate based on just having faith. There are probabilities of things (that we already know of) which can happen such as the % of people that would die in a car accident without a seatbelt, but I do not consider those related to having faith in any way (in case someone wants to equate having faith with taking some risk in day to day life).
 
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LadyofFireandLace

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The liberals ask me how the hell are you conservative and don’t believe in god? The conservatives ask me, how the hell do you not believe in God, but aren’t liberal? I get into it with the Christians, the atheists, the liberals, and the conservatives. People say ohhh don’t let labels affect you. Those labels mean a lot. If you are Christian in the fundamental, that massively affects your political stance. And if you are not a Christian, then your political stance on issues will be seen as very unChristian by the typical Christians.

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I was raised Christian Orthodox but I never cared to take it seriously.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time. It’s tough. I consider the other alternative of someone like myself to be a liberal Christian…that too is another conundrum.

Can anyone offer any insight into this?
You grew up with fundamental moral values but never got deep into your spiritual faith.

Just like with Jordan Peterson a lot of us used to say "He's halfway there" until he started getting there.

It’s just funny because I have a lot of Christian values but I never liked the idea of not being my own ultimate authority which I guess allows me to hold many unChristian values at the exact same time.

That's very interesting because I would find the idea of myself being my own authority an invitation to an absolute train wreck, and I have done it without God because of my own pride, and that was the result: A consistent train wreck of a life.

I would rather have a God to put my life into his hands and guide me.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." Proverbs 3:5-6

And I've found that to be true. I can't understand the concept of wanting everything to depend on me and having nothing bigger than myself to rely on.
 

Romanov2488

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You grew up with fundamental moral values but never got deep into your spiritual faith.

Just like with Jordan Peterson a lot of us used to say "He's halfway there" until he started getting there.



That's very interesting because I would find the idea of myself being my own authority an invitation to an absolute train wreck, and I have done it without God because of my own pride, and that was the result: A consistent train wreck of a life.

I would rather have a God to put my life into his hands and guide me.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." Proverbs 3:5-6

And I've found that to be true. I can't understand the concept of wanting everything to depend on me and having nothing bigger than myself to rely on.

And I couldn’t get into it primarily because I can’t put my faith in something that cannot be proven. I am in no way insinuating that God does not exist because I can’t prove it. But, it is the assertions of people who claim God exists that places the burden of proof on them. This goes for all religions that make claims of a god or gods. I could care less which religion is responsible for the most hypocrisy and violence throughout human history. That stuff can be debated to death and it distracts from the main issue: meeting the burden of proof for anyone making assertions of something without proof.
 

friend of

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I would encourage you to learn about what faith is and why God desires it from his creation. That would be a first step, I think, for you.

Welcone
 
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