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Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Willie T, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I ran across this while reading:
    As noted, Revelation has historically generated an intensity of interest unparalleled among any of the books of Scripture. Yet, at the same time — as evidenced by the extreme diversity of the views on Revelation — it has been a most difficult book to interpret. Or perhaps the converse is true: because of the extreme difficulty of interpreting Revelation, it has created an intense interest! As author, David Chilton, has observed: "Many rush from their first profession of faith to the last book in the Bible, treating it as little more than a book of hallucinations, hastily disdaining a sober-minded attempt to allow the Bible to interpret itself — and finding, ultimately, only a reflection of their own prejudices. “ Too often such a situation is due to the temptations presented by biblical scholars who gear their works for the popular market.


    This seems to be especially true of dispensational theologians. For instance, Charles Ryrie — an able scholar and probably the leading dispensationalist theologian of the present day — has written of Revelation:

    “How do we make sense out of all those beasts and thrones and horsemen and huge numbers like 200 million? Answer: Take it at face value.” Later he gives an example of the usefulness of his “face value” hermeneutic in seeking the correct interpretation of Revelation 9:1-12 (the locusts from the abyss): “John’s description sounds very much like some kind of war machine or UFO.. Demons have the ability to take different shapes, so it is quite possible that John is picturing a coming invasion of warlike UFOS. Until someone comes up with a satisfactory answer to the UFO question, this possibility should not be ruled out.”

    Such an interpretation makes one wonder whose face determines the value! Certainly not the first century Christians to whom it was written.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
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  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    you'd think this would be a clue, yes
     
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  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

    I like this statement... a reflection of their own prejudices.

    This is truth.
     
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  4. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "the locusts from the abyss" <----I've always pictured this as a huge army helicopter trying to be described by John. Cannot imagine what he thought of all he saw. I love end time stuff!
     
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  5. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    But, that DOES blow any interpretations thus made by people who claim to be "Literalists" completely out of the water. However, I have NEVER believed anyone when they said they read all of the Bible, "literally."
     
  6. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Same here, I always question what makes them think everything is literal? John couldn't have known what a helicopter was, or anything outside of his time period for that matter! I am no scholar but, if these people take everything literally, their churches should be full of amputees! LOL. Ya know, pluck out your eye, cut off your hand...
     
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  7. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    So glad that you said that. :)

    We have quite a few literalist on this Site...it's crazy.
    And I have at times mention just what you said..." If it is all literal, then why in church services does everyone have both hands and both eyes.?" Crazy thinking.

    The book of Ezekiel and his revelations remind us of Revelation. Wheels within wheels and beasts...
    I used to try and understand all those things...then I came to the place of knowing that if and when we were supposed to understand , it would be by revelation to our inner man. Like.."Aah, now I see it..THIS is that which was spoken ..."

    So, until then, I just rest in the knowledge that 'deep within my spirit' I understand it all....but I the "me", doesn't not know it yet. :)
     
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  8. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    The book of the Revelation, According to the Scripture, was given to Jesus from God to show to His Servants!
    We must understand that a great period of time has passed, so what was seen by John, I would think would be future event's!
    we can all come to our own conclusions to what He saw, but again we are in the future!
    I also think that the book is 3 separate Church dispensations, Now I have said [ I think ] so do not take what I say as Gospel, OK!
    I tend to agree with @bygrace ! we will come to the true understanding, when we are able to contain it, But it is worth the effort to read and try to gain the understanding, and ask for the truth in this matter!
    IT WAS WRITTEN TO THE SERVANTS OF OUR SAVIOR! Are We?
     
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  9. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    Personally I have heard Two different take's on the subject of the creature's from the Abyss. Both have served in the Military, one Navel/Air Force, the other Marines, both have Ministries! One describes the creature's from the Abyss as actual creature's, they are not allowed to kill, but do very painful harm to mankind, and that they do not harm any thing green. [ so if you are approached by them be sure to have green Camo on]. LOL. The other believe's that these Creatures from the Abyss are War Machine's, for they are able to go from mountain top to mountain top, Like a Helicopter, and the have the face of men, so as to see them through the Windshield!
    I find both Interesting, Giant Locust, which God could use, and or Future War Machine's, which would fit the time's we live in, Your Guess is as good as mine! Whatever John saw He did His best to describe.
     
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  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Why did the spies who Moses sent to spy out the land come back and speak of locusts whom they should be afraid of?

    The Locusts from the Abyss can inflict pain on those who are not the saints, but they are not allowed to kill anyone.

    I would suggest, IMHO, that the Locusts are the people who God Judges at the end of this present age or the beginning of the Millennium Age as described in Isaiah 24: 21:22 who are released first to be then followed by the demonic wicked fallen heavenly hosts who are also described as Beast by Daniel.

    This then makes some sense to me but only the revelation of Time will confirm it.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, AMEN! He reveals as He sees fit and as we keep our selves open to the Holy Spirits teaching, He reveals! Lol...I just made that up, really :) lol
     
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  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    If we apply that criterion, then none of us should be reading and studying the Bible. It ended with being written to first century Christians (c 100 AD), and it began by being written to Israel at the time of Moses (c 1500 BC). So we should simply shelve this book and look for a contemporary Bible!

    What an amazingly specious argument. The fundamental principle of Bible interpretation is to take everything in its plain literal sense, unless there is good reason to believe we are dealing with a metaphor or a parable.

    Furthermore, because the Bible is the Word of God, it is FOR ALL TIME, FOR ALL PEOPLE, AND UNTIL ALL THINGS ARE FULFILLED.
     
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  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe also that when God is ready to reveal what is right in front of our faces (The Bible) then only will He allow us to truly SEE what has been hidden in plain site..lol...He will open our eyes as needed.
     
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  14. faithfulness

    faithfulness Active Member

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    Amen! Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
     
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  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Yet, such a literal interpretation is one of the main things Charles C. Ryrie says he bases his hermeneutics upon..... unless it is convenient to make helicopters out of insects.
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Ryrie need not have speculated, since no one really knows what those creatures will be like. But his basic hermeneutical principle is correct. We cannot spritualize or allegorize the Bible as we please. That is what has led to a lot of spiritual confusion.
     
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  17. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to quote someone you need to give the book, author, publisher, latest copyright, p.#. Other wise it is just your bull you are presenting.

    Stranger
     
  18. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Oh, stuff a sock in it, Little Fella. :D
     
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  19. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong? Are you afraid of giving the proper credit? You need to produce the origin of the quote, else some will think you are lying. Good practice also.

    Stranger
     
  20. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Is a "basic hermeneutical principle" worth even claiming, if you just ignore it because you can't deal with the way the Bible presents something you say you will accept no other way than the literal way it is written?
     
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