If Anyone Is To Be Taken Captive ...

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Bobby Jo

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Rev. 13:10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes ...

What a powerful "state" we live in with cameras in most business; cameras in government buildings; cameras in police cars; cameras mounted on police cars that drive through business parking lots (i.e., Walmart) scanning every license plate; cameras mounted on traffic lights; cameras mounted on street lights; and cameras mounted on drones.

And it's not IF you're sought for questioning, it's WHEN you're sought for questioning.

Folks, the future is here. The Deep State is in control, anarchists are in every branch and aspect of government, and most sheeple are asleep.

I had a co-worker whose grandfather saw the dark clouds in pre-WWII Europe. He sent his wife and young son to Canada with the assurance that he would complete a few financial matters and be on the next boat out. -- But the doors closed, and he perished in the concentration camp ovens.

One has to wonder what percentage of christians will comprise the "Great Falling Away". Some 60%?, 70%?, or higher? Apparently 65% of the Jews living in Europe during WWII perished in the Holocaust. So should the "church" expect anything different, especially when the church "hireling" purposefully discounts and discredits our Christian roles given in 1 Cor. 14, by making himself/herself the central source of "christianity" in our "fellowships".


Whoever wants to be part of the ~65%, -- PLEASE DO NOTHING. I'm quite certain everything will be JUST FINE.


Bobby Jo
 

Naomi25

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Rev. 13:10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes ...

What a powerful "state" we live in with cameras in most business; cameras in government buildings; cameras in police cars; cameras mounted on police cars that drive through business parking lots (i.e., Walmart) scanning every license plate; cameras mounted on traffic lights; cameras mounted on street lights; and cameras mounted on drones.

And it's not IF you're sought for questioning, it's WHEN you're sought for questioning.

Folks, the future is here. The Deep State is in control, anarchists are in every branch and aspect of government, and most sheeple are asleep.

I had a co-worker whose grandfather saw the dark clouds in pre-WWII Europe. He sent his wife and young son to Canada with the assurance that he would complete a few financial matters and be on the next boat out. -- But the doors closed, and he perished in the concentration camp ovens.

One has to wonder what percentage of christians will comprise the "Great Falling Away". Some 60%?, 70%?, or higher? Apparently 65% of the Jews living in Europe during WWII perished in the Holocaust. So should the "church" expect anything different, especially when the church "hireling" purposefully discounts and discredits our Christian roles given in 1 Cor. 14, by making himself/herself the central source of "christianity" in our "fellowships".


Whoever wants to be part of the ~65%, -- PLEASE DO NOTHING. I'm quite certain everything will be JUST FINE.


Bobby Jo

And what is it you are suggesting the other percentage should do?
 

Bobby Jo

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And what is it you are suggesting the other percentage should do?

Hi Naomi25,

There's several things we can anticipate, it's difficult to assign any priority, and best to start where GOD leads you, -- but START.

One aspect is that we're warned to flee from major cities:
Rev. 18: 4
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;

Another is that we won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, so it might behoove us to have a "lifeboat", which is to suggest a Shelter, with a MINIMUM ~six month supply of Food; Fuel; and other Necessities.
Rev. 13:16
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.


It might also help if we're not depending on a "hireling" to do all of our studying, praying , and thinking:
1 Cor. 14:26
What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. ... 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent.


Matt. 11:12
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.

I guess this means I won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.
Of course it might help if we could KNOW when these things are about to happen:
1 Thess 5:2
For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

As I understand the Scripturally based timeline, we've only got ~two years until the mark of the beast, and another ~6 months until Jesus returns:
Matt. 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

... but we can know the week; month; season; year (1); decade (10); score (20); century (100); daytona (500); and millennia (1,000). And I don't need to know down to the week, -- within a month is sufficient for my purposes.​

But if you expect that the "rapture" will get you out of the 42 month (not "seven years" as we're errantly taught) tribulation:
Rev. 13:5
And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months;

... then you should probably study Rev. 20 more closely, where the "rapture" is how those who are alive and remain on earth AFTER the Millennial Kingdom arise to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air.


Or, -- I've heard that the concentration camps will offer "FREE" showers ...


With Best Regards,
Bobby Jo
 
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Windmillcharge

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One aspect is that we're warned to flee from major cities:
No the call is to flee from babylon, not major cities.

As to becoming a 'preper' that is up to you, but do think seriously about how you will live for Jesus with starving people around you?

The one 'preper' area we all should think hard about doing. Is how we live now for Jesus.
Let us be rounded up because we are Christians who do good, rather then for other political crimes.
 

Bobby Jo

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Let us be rounded up because we are Christians who do good, rather then for other political crimes.

You know, many people say that when missiles are in the air that they will run to the "bright lights", but we weren't created for DEATH, we were created for ETERNAL LIFE. So when the time comes, it's my bet that they will RUN FOR THEIR LIVES.

And where the WWII era Japanese military had a saying: Train Hard, Fight Easy; I would propose: Prep Hard, Live Easy.


But we all choose!

Bobby Jo
 

VictoryinJesus

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Rev. 13:10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes ...

What a powerful "state" we live in with cameras in most business; cameras in government buildings; cameras in police cars; cameras mounted on police cars that drive through business parking lots (i.e., Walmart) scanning every license plate; cameras mounted on traffic lights; cameras mounted on street lights; and cameras mounted on drones.

And it's not IF you're sought for questioning, it's WHEN you're sought for questioning.

Folks, the future is here. The Deep State is in control, anarchists are in every branch and aspect of government, and most sheeple are asleep.

I had a co-worker whose grandfather saw the dark clouds in pre-WWII Europe. He sent his wife and young son to Canada with the assurance that he would complete a few financial matters and be on the next boat out. -- But the doors closed, and he perished in the concentration camp ovens.

One has to wonder what percentage of christians will comprise the "Great Falling Away". Some 60%?, 70%?, or higher? Apparently 65% of the Jews living in Europe during WWII perished in the Holocaust. So should the "church" expect anything different, especially when the church "hireling" purposefully discounts and discredits our Christian roles given in 1 Cor. 14, by making himself/herself the central source of "christianity" in our "fellowships".


Whoever wants to be part of the ~65%, -- PLEASE DO NOTHING. I'm quite certain everything will be JUST FINE.


Bobby Jo

Revelation 13:10
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Ephesians 4:8
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

What is captivity?
 

Bobby Jo

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... think seriously about how you will live for Jesus with starving people around you ...

... to continue the thought, -- perhaps we should "think seriously" how we will live STARVING with "starving people" around us. -- You know, if we had some stored food (Please see "Augason Farms", -- with Free Delivery from Walmart) we could SHARE. But you can't share what you WILL be trying to get for yourself.


Good Luck!
 

Naomi25

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Hi Naomi25,

There's several things we can anticipate, it's difficult to assign any priority, and best to start where GOD leads you, -- but START.

One aspect is that we're warned to flee from major cities:
Rev. 18: 4
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
I think, perhaps, you and I differ much in our view. But I can still voice my opinion on these things you suggest we do. The problem I see with "needing to flee major cities" is that the bible really doesn't say that. The verse you quote above is talking about Babylon, not "major cities". Now, even if we see 'Babylon' as a world system where they embrace worldly things rather than Godly ones, the call is still just to turn our backs on societies rebellion of God. We must not be a part of the "Babylonian" system.
So, regardless of whether Babylon is a single city or a system, that is all this verse calls for. And no other verse in scripture calls Christians to abandon the major cities at the end.

Another is that we won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, so it might behoove us to have a "lifeboat", which is to suggest a Shelter, with a MINIMUM ~six month supply of Food; Fuel; and other Necessities.
Rev. 13:16
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
This...is a huge topic that requires a thread all by itself! Obviously many people see 'the mark' as a physical mark that will indeed be necessary for 'buying and selling' at the end. However, just as many people see it to be talking about declaring loyalty. When you say something is on their 'hand or forehead' you are saying they follow with deeds and thoughts. Revelation talks about the faithful also receiving the a mark, or seal, from God. This is not really painted as an actual mark, but more a stamp of loyalty...God calls and knows his own and we follow him with our thoughts and deeds. At the time of the end, anyone not willing to be a wholehearted follower of the social order will be unable to participate, which means buying or selling. This is not the first time we've seen this in history. When John wrote Revelation the Christians were experiencing a similar thing. Most had to be a part of a guild to work (and therefore buy and sell), but that guild would require tithes and worship of the Emperor, sometimes even celebrations that would include prostitutes. If Christians refused to take part in those things, the guild would toss them out, effectively cutting of their ability to be part of society; to work, to buy and sell. To follow Christ means you cannot follow a society that follows their own Satanic, Babylonian, anti-god agenda.

So...do we need to prep? I suppose it wouldn't hurt if that's what you're thinking. But others feel led, I think, to let God be sovereign over this matter. There is no explicit command for Christians to prepare so we can survive. Indeed, the sentiment is that if we must suffer and die, then so be it, we shall be rewarded at Christ's return. So, I'd say it's up to idividual interpretation.

It might also help if we're not depending on a "hireling" to do all of our studying, praying , and thinking:
Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.

I guess this means I won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.
I'm...not entirely sure what you mean here. Do we not, even now, approach God ardently on our own? Are we not supposed to? Who on earth approaches God while watching Oprah? *shudder*

Of course it might help if we could KNOW when these things are about to happen:
1 Thess 5:2
For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

As I understand the Scripturally based timeline, we've only got ~two years until the mark of the beast, and another ~6 months until Jesus returns:
Matt. 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

... but we can know the week; month; season; year (1); decade (10); score (20); century (100); daytona (500); and millennia (1,000). And I don't need to know down to the week, -- within a month is sufficient for my purposes.​
As I understand 1 Thess 5:4, it doesn't mean we are to have any 'special' knowledge about when Jesus is coming. It just means that as Christians we should live in a state of readiness, always watching for our Lord. If we do not 'sleep', we will not be caught out.

And I'm sorry, but I think saying "we can't know the hour, but we can know the year, season, etc" is attempting to do a swifty on the intent of the passage. Here's the thing: people often say 'we CAN know the season because of these signs Jesus gave us to look for!' The problem with that is that most of the signs Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse are signs that span the course of the interadvental period. Wars, rumours of wars. Earthquakes, famines, disease. False christ's and prophets, persecution. Are they not things we've seen forever? The ONLY true sign we can point to is the analogy Christ used in regards to 'birth pangs'...we can expect these things to become more frequent and intense. But, even this in itself will not lead us to a 'year or season', because labor pains are sometimes quick, but sometimes they draw out for a long, long time. How bad do the pangs have to get before the baby arrives? No one knows. And considering how long it's taken for the pangs to get where they are now, who knows how long they'll take to go further. So, we are back to "no one knows the day or hour".


But if you expect that the "rapture" will get you out of the 42 month (not "seven years" as we're errantly taught) tribulation:
Rev. 13:5
And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months;

... then you should probably study Rev. 20 more closely, where the "rapture" is how those who are alive and remain on earth AFTER the Millennial Kingdom arise to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air.
Or, -- I've heard that the concentration camps will offer "FREE" showers ...

With Best Regards,
Bobby Jo
Actually, I don't count on a Rapture until Christ returns. I think the bible is pretty clear it's just a single event.
 
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bbyrd009

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I'm not "scared". Are you? You should be.

Prepared, not "scared",
Bobby Jo
Oh I am sorry, bobby with a y duh.
um ya, I remember being scared, I guess "quite disturbed" expresses it better, after rd1 of The Rev. and I am just seeing that a um big part of the Revelation is about our suppression of this initial impression, and the lack of confession around that. This can only and inevitably manifest in the multitude of examples that I guess any OG would readily give witness to. I'll do my best to translate that to English later ok :D

anyway, you aren't still apprehensive maybe a little bit?
 

Bobby Jo

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... The problem I see with "needing to flee major cities" is that the bible really doesn't say that. The verse you quote above is talking about Babylon, ...
I certainly don't want to belabor the discussion, so I'll only address your first point:

Nebuchadnezzar employed the Metropolis model:

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224

... which all successive kingdoms have followed, up to the point where NYC was going to regulate the size of carbonated sugary beverages dispensed. Thus "Mystery Babylon" is the inference to the Metropolis model. This was easily recognized by the creators of "Superman"® which referenced the city in which "Clark Kent" resided as such; and of course the "newspaper" where "Clark Kent" worked was called "The Daily Planet". But the "church" isn't nearly as perceptive as the creators of a comic strip.

And so one should perceive that whether it's ANY large city, and even some small cities, those residents may be at significant risk to their futures. But each of us makes our own decisions! :)


Thanks,
Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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... you aren't still apprehensive maybe a little bit?
NO!! Scripture provides the events, the participants, and the timing. All I have to do is pursue my preparations to the very best of my ability:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force. -- Or better rendered: The kingdom of heaven is obtained by pursuit, and the pursuers take it by ardent action.

I guess this means I won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.


... and GOD/Jesus aren't "there for you" if you haven't done all you can for yourself:

Luke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

So are you taking action, using your Purse, Bag, & Sword, -- or are you watching Oprah?


Bobby Jo

WWII Japanese Military saying: Train Hard, Fight Easy.
End Time Christian saying: Prep Hard, Live Easy.
 

Naomi25

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I certainly don't want to belabor the discussion, so I'll only address your first point:

Nebuchadnezzar employed the Metropolis model:

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224

... which all successive kingdoms have followed, up to the point where NYC was going to regulate the size of carbonated sugary beverages dispensed. Thus "Mystery Babylon" is the inference to the Metropolis model. This was easily recognized by the creators of "Superman"® which referenced the city in which "Clark Kent" resided as such; and of course the "newspaper" where "Clark Kent" worked was called "The Daily Planet". But the "church" isn't nearly as perceptive as the creators of a comic strip.

And so one should perceive that whether it's ANY large city, and even some small cities, those residents may be at significant risk to their futures. But each of us makes our own decisions! :)


Thanks,
Bobby Jo

I think rather than focusing on how comic books portray 'the city model', and therefore 'mystery babylon', it would be better served to see how the bible looks at "Babylon". In the OT Babylon is alive and well and is often a brutal city standing against God's chosen people. They are a city of sin and indulgent pagan worship. Of course, in Isaiah 47:11 the downfall of this city is foretold, as so it happens. 630 years later Babylon is little more than a small village in a vast desert. And yet, we see the name begin to pop up in the NT again and again. Why? Because while in the OT she was a city, in the NT she is a spirit, representing that same sin and attitude the people of Babylon had; a symbol of a people at war with God and his chosen people. Both Peter and John refer to Babylon in this manner. And we can clearly see it for ourselves; a culture which kicks God out of schools, business, Courts. Which celebrates the murder of children and the infirm. Praises the lifestyles of the perverted and tears down those who do not lift such lifestyles high.
No...it is not cities that are the problem here, it is the culture; the society. And sadly, that spreads beyond the large cities.
 

Bobby Jo

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... it would be better served to see how the bible looks at "Babylon". ...

Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

It believe what is described above can be summed up with one word: HISTORY.

And so I've provided HISTORY exactly as Scripture dictates. Is this insufficient, -- or is this simply a contradiction of a doctrine which may supersede Scripture and HISTORY?

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]
_______________________________________________________
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224


Thanks,
Bobby Jo
 
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Enoch111

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As I understand the Scripturally based timeline, we've only got ~two years until the mark of the beast, and another ~6 months until Jesus returns
This is pure conjecture. The Second Coming of Christ is AFTER the Great Tribulation and its earth-shaking aftermath (3 1/2 years), which is AFTER the reign of the Antichrist (3 1/2 years before that) with the Mark of the Beast. So a minimum of seven years will precede the Second Coming from the time that the Antichrist takes control.

Furthermore, the temple in Jerusalem must be already standing, and the sacrifices being offered there, when the Antichrist takes control, and this could be some time in the future. Therefore your attempt at date-setting is misleading and fanciful.
 

Naomi25

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Deuteronomy 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

It believe what is described above can be summed up with one word: HISTORY.

And so I've provided HISTORY exactly as Scripture dictates. Is this insufficient, -- or is this simply a contradiction of a doctrine which may supersede Scripture and HISTORY?

The Babylonian Empire was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]
_______________________________________________________
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224


Thanks,
Bobby Jo

I've got no problem with history. I'm also not saying that the above is not historical. However, one cannot deny that you then attempted to link this historical fact to a comic book rather than the biblical account, and that also, the bible, however historical the above might be, does not insist that every "metropolis" must be Babylon.
 

Bobby Jo

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I've got no problem with history. I'm also not saying that the above is not historical. However, one cannot deny that you then attempted to link this historical fact to a comic book rather than the biblical account, and that also, the bible, however historical the above might be, does not insist that every "metropolis" must be Babylon.
The 1950's society's fear of nuclear war was manifested by Hollywood as irradiated Giant Killer Ants, and the such. Today Zombies reflect society's concerns, and the New Mexico state wide law enforcement Crowd Control training seminar several years back was called "Zombie Apocalypse Training". And you may not be aware, but you and I are the "zombies" and the Government is the "Humans". So the Superman "Metropolis" is NOT a figment of imagination, but rather an expression of a geopolitical reality historically presented through a commercial enterprise ("Superman"® comics).

Simply put: Society sentiments are easily perceived by the world, but the "church" is deaf, dumb, and blind.


And as a future point of reference, -- the U.N. will move it's headquarters (the pinnacle of "Metropolis") from NEW YORK CITY to Jerusalem:

Daniel 11:45 And he [the United Nations] shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain; yet he [the United Nations] shall come to his end, with none to help him.

... and ...

Daniel 2:45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold [the "Metropolis" model].

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end [the "Metropolis" model], and it shall stand for ever;


With Best Wishes,
Bobby Jo