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If God is Totally Sovereign Now…

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by skypair, May 19, 2017.

  1. skypair

    skypair Member

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    …why would you expect heaven or the New Earth to be any better than what we have right now? Why would you pray saying, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done," if this is what heaven will be like?

    Is it that God is just going to quit doing/causing evil when we are in heaven or in the New Earth?

    skypair
     
  2. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    Heaven is not like this. You think there is stealing in heaven. This is the kingdom in a fallen condiction. So we pray thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven now, Thy Kingdom come as it is so far removed from what we have now. God is sovereign over all. But we have free will and God will not take that from us. So the condiction of man is in a fallen state now. But Christ has restored us to God, and we are seen as his sons. Perfect in Christ and through Christ and because of Christ. God has restored us to our original created value. And we are to bring about Gods kingdom as we go. By imitating Christ and setting the captives free, casting out demons raising the dead. God is Good. All the time.

    God cannot do evil. and has never done evil, God sent His Son to bring us life and life more abundant. satan came to steal,kill, and destroy. Once you catch that you will have a far better understanding of God. He sent His Son. So you can have an abundant life.
     
  3. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    what makes you think it wasn't the plan in the first place? every day of creation things where anew, and what makes you think there isn't an eighth day in mind? just how many days of the Lord God are there going to be in the eternity He inhabits?


    and for the record, it was mankind who invited what you would call evil into the world by trusting in their own judgement of what is good and evil rather than trusting God's Judgements.
     
  4. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    "When the cat is away the mice will play."

    I believe someone that is able to endure to the end and remain faithful in this life will be strong enough to remain faithful forever within God's presence. It is hard to be bad when you know your being watched.

    Even if time doesn't exist as we know it in heaven, and periods of tempting don't happen there. Our strength would endure too, so there would be no periods of weakness. The scales would tip in our favor so we wouldn't sin.
     
  5. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    Well we manage it just fine now. If you think your gonna be good just because your being watched your sadly mistaken
     
  6. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Who said just being watched is sufficient? I didn't.
     
  7. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    So what did you mean by this statement? looks very like you were saying its very difficult to sin whist being watched.
    Could you expand?
     
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    First, it helps to understand what "right now" is.

    Right now is not a universe unto itself with all the wonders we think we know. No, right now, is a manifestation...a mere image of a reality we have yet to know. We, seemingly, are born into this image, as an author writes a character into a book. Not unlike that, this book, God's book, is already written. The timeline of this would-be history, no more exists than the timeline narrative of Tom Sawyer - it's just a story. In this story, history (His story) tells us of Him...and of us - we are characters in his story. But just as God has not told us that he "was" nor "will be", but has said "I am." We, too, simply "are"...and although He knows who we are...we don't - that is, not until He tells us, or until (as it were) we read the pages of our lives within the greater story. We are simply last to know, and have to walk it out, to live it.

    So...the prayer...refers to you becoming who you are, you being happy with all the choices you have made and will make in your life...and then saying, "Amen" (or "Let it be so" - just as it is written in heaven...let it be so)...or "I am" (I am what I am), hallelujah!

    And that's heaven.

    PS, Alternatively, you come to the end of your life and find out you did not make good choices...and then there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, etc..
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  9. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    That statement is prefaced by the assumption that you make it to heaven in the first place. If you just dump everyone on earth into heaven yea, what you say is true most would still sin.
     
  10. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    If you make it sin is already gone.
     
  11. skypair

    skypair Member

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    So perhaps you can agree with me that God has sovereignty over the consequences of men's decisions(?) If Pharaoh had decided to let His people go, Pharaoh might have, himself, been saved. As it was, he wasn't saved and went after God's people to his own death.

    skypair
     
  12. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Good question! Remember when Adam and Eve fell? What was the first thing they discovered? that they were naked, right? Awareness of their flesh and that they could function according to their own sovereignty (morality) but doing so would bring consequences.

    And what is the purpose of creation? to create man in the image of God. That is, that all those who accepted His image spiritually and physically should be with Him in eternity according to their own choice to be like Him and not like fallen man.

    So God has sovereignty over His whole creation .. can cause a storm or still it .. can heal leprosy .. can cause a donkey to speak .. and man in His image has sovereignty over his own things as well. But what a man CAN do is surrender his sovereignty over his things to God, right? And that is what salvation is all about. When we "repent unto life" (Acts 11:18), we die to self and are made alive to Christ.

    So do you see that God, in order to save only those who would trust Him in eternity, had to give them sovereignty in this life to see what they would do with it. Then, of course, in heaven He will have only those who have given Him "total sovereignty" over their lives. In a word, "slaves" to Him.

    skypair
     
  13. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    Not quite sure what you mean there. I am a simple man who left school with nothing much.

    pharaoh tirned on God. and He decided he would do what ever he wanted. And will face God on judgement day. If he let them go he would at least not be in the same position he is now.
     
  14. Sword

    Sword Well-Known Member

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    What about sons of God? You need to explian the slave thing in a little more detail. There are many types of slaves.
     
  15. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Active Member

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    If there is no darkness or evil in him, then that means he cannot be the author of evil as you claim. Iniquity didn't start with God and neither did it start with man, but with Satan. If Satan never existed, the fall never would have happened to begin with and we would still be living on a planet that God deemed was "good". It was "good" because there was no sin. This is what it will be like in the new heaven and earth when the very idea of sin, and Satan, is blotted out for good. Do you not now see the simple fallacy in your argument. Start from the beginning of how this mess actually started and your argument makes no sense.
     
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