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Featured If you want to Choose to Reject the Rapture=Just stay here!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by GISMYS_7, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    4Jesus likes this.
  2. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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  3. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak Member

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    Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

    Matthew 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

    Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

    Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    If we are going to be raptured away, why does Jesus give us several warnings about staying faithful until his coming? It has nothing to do with being righteous so you do not go to Hell, because that can happen when you die just as easy as when Jesus comes. There is something specific we are waiting for and have to stay faithful for, at the moment before Jesus comes that will test us.

    Matthew24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Matthew24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Matthew24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    We are told in the same chapter, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days....then shall appear the...Son of man in Heaven....and he shall send his angels...they shall gather together his elect". Jesus himself tells us we will be here for the great tribulation of the antichrist, and only "Immediately after" will Jesus come down and gather the Christians. This is plain as day if Christians put their trust in God, instead they are scared of the tribulation so they create a false doctrine to protect themselves since they believe God is not powerful enough to protect them while satan is on Earth.

    2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    This chapter explains the rapture and the deceiving of the Christians when satan comes:

    "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition...whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders". If you think Jesus is a liar in Matthew 24, we are told in 2 Thessalonians that "our gathering together unto him" will be "after the working of satan...so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God". Before Jesus comes and gathers us, satan will be on earth deceiving us and he will be in Jerusalem at the rebuilt temple sitting in the holy of holy chambers pretending to be God.

    Towards the rapture and those that will be deceived by satan when he comes, because they did not want to prepare for the tribulation or trust God. The Lord says "because they received not the love of the truth...God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie". If you do not prepare for the tribulation because you think you are going to be raptured away, then when satan comes you will have no idea what is going on or what to do, and it will be very easy for satan to trick you into worshipping him. Really when satan comes to Earth, all he has to do is rapture you all into the clouds and you will be on your kneels worshipping the devil in 10 seconds. I am not even a powerful supernatural being like satan, but even I can trick 90% of Christians on Earth to sell their soul in a matter of seconds because your fear is so blinding to you.

    Why do it the hard way?

    Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Because there is only the hard way being a Christian, if it was easy everyone would be able to be perfect and put Jesus to shame as we all would be perfect non-sinners. But we all sin and fall short; why? Because it is HARD to be good in this evil world.
     
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  4. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    Those that are left behind on rapture will try to live under anti-christ rule and the judgments of the great tribulation!!! All their sad, poor choice!
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There will be a great multitude dressed in white, who will have come out of great tribulation...

    some would teach that these saints are not the church.

    So there will be saints who are not in the body of Christ?
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    For the simple reason that following the Resurrection/Rapture, the saints will be gathered at the Judgment Seat of Christ, where their works will be judged, and they will either receive rewards and crowns, or forfeit them.

    While we are on earth we are to be faithful servants. But the Rapture is not based upon our merits or what we deserve. It is purely based upon the grace of God and the finished work of Christ, which includes the redemption of our bodies.

    As an example Lot and his family did not deserve to be taken out of Sodom before it was judged. They had willingly and wilfully chosen to live there in spite of its wickedness. But God -- in His grace and mercy -- deemed Lot to be righteous (because he believed God) and caused him and his family (excluding his sons-in-law) to be literally DRAGGED out of Sodom. Yet because his wife's heart was still in Sodom, she was judged. And even after escaping Sodom, his daughters did wickedly.

    But what this tells us is that escaping the wrath of God is not based upon our merits at all. It is based upon what God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit have done for those who have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  7. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Well it's already happened! I have been raptured! I'm waiting for you to join me!

    Quit looking to the sky!
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    If you have already been raptured can you in all honesty claim that you are now sinlessly perfect in a glorified body? If not then you are mocking the Rapture.
     
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  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There are computers in heaven connected to the internet? (I wouldn't be surprised!)
     
  10. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    Well the 2015 southwest believers convention has been and gone so we've missed it.

    The rapture happen while the convention was on, back in 2015.


    Only goes to show how stupis these calls are about the rapture.
     
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  11. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Rapture or no rapture, now is the time to be ready for this is the day that the Lord hath. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Stop worrying about the tomorrow that may never come for YOU or for ME.
     
  12. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak Member

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    You are contradicting yourself, as you said God "deemed Lot to be righteous (because he believed God)". It was not grace that spared Lot, because if Lot attacked the angels like the rest of the city and showed he was just as evil then he would never have been saved. He made a choice of his free will to be righteous, and so God "deemed Lot to be righteous" in your own words. "1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Lot was saved while the others were not, because God declared no "unrighteous" will be saved...period.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    The lies of "Grace alone" has no Scripture backing it, just as the lies of the "rapture" has no Scripture backing it. There is only one verse in the entire bible that supports each of these doctrines...ONE. On top of that, there are dozens if not hundreds of verses that disprove these doctrines. There is one verse that says we will be taken up into the clouds to justify the rapture, but no Christian that believes the rapture ever researched to determine the time frame of when the gathering will be...or they ignored it willfully. As my last post exposed the rapture as a lie, I focused this post to expose grace alone as a lie:

    God's grace does not save us, because the "Father judgeth no man". We are all judged when Jesus returns by Jesus himself and when we die we will be judged by Jesus at the Throne of God, Jesus as the Word of God will judge us by the law according to our works which will witness for us our righteousness. "Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Everyone quotes this one verse and ignores the rest of the Bible, but it is taken out of context, as you are all ignoring the entire point of what Paul was saying: "lest any man should boast". It has nothing to do with grace making us robots serving with no free will, Paul is reminding us that we can not do it alone or earn salvation with our own flesh wisdom or flesh strength, but we need God's help. "Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    Jesus said himself, "he shall reward every man according to his works". While Paul said, "For by grace are ye saved through faith...Not of works". Now these are contradictions, do we as Christians call the Son of God a liar or do we call a simple man named Paul a liar? I would say neither, and believe that Paul's words were taken out of context to prove a tradition of man which was created (like the rapture) out of fear. What is the difference between "saved by grace" and "saved by works"? The Grace doctrine is a 100% guarantee that every Christian will go to Heaven no matter how vile their life was, while Works suggest there is a chance even as a Christian that you can still go to Hell if you are not living righteously. The only difference I see is that Christians fear that they might not be found worthy of Heaven, so it is EASY to believe you are saved by grace alone so there is no risk of going to Hell. The exact words of the author of this thread, "Why do everything the hard way??"

    Sorry my brother/sister Enoch, God does not want lazy servants that want the easy way in his eternity, he wants people of worth who will fight and even die to be righteous for no other reason but because it is the right thing to do.
     
  13. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak Member

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    Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    With respect; we need to worry about false doctrine like the rapture, because as John said "Blessed is he that readeth". If people believe the rapture they will not study and prepare for the tribulation thinking they will be flown away, and by any Christian supporting this ignorance and willful dismissal of God's warning their blood will be on our hands when they worship satan thinking he is God.

    Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    2Th 2:1, Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2Th 2:4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    That there will be a rapture is evident from the following scripture:

    1Th 4:13, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18, Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I believe we are in agreement. Rapture expectation from what I see is a waste of effort. Expecting and working [surrendering] so that Jesus will grow in our heart is NOT a wasted effort. It is on our hearts that God is focusing.
     
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  16. Mal'ak

    Mal'ak Member

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    2Th 2:3, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2Th 2:4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


    No one is disputing that Christians will be gathered by Jesus when he returns, the point is when and how. What you purposely over looked was WHEN, it clearly says "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first...so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God". The devil has to come "first" and sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem "shewing himself that he is God".

    Will the temple be built and satan reign from within pretending to be God before the tribulation or during? Sadly Christians that believe in a rapture cherry pick the Bible, "see! it says we will be gathered!" We will be gathered...but when? The rapture is not a gathering doctrine, rapture is a doctrine that declares no Christian will be here on Earth during the tribulation because they will be all flown away to avoid it and there is no Biblical backing for that.
     
  17. 4Jesus

    4Jesus Active Member

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    @GISMYS_7

    Are you a pre-tribulation rapture believer or mid-tribulation rapture believer?

    I'm a pre-trib rapture believer. However, I can see how the scripture in 1 Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." could be used to believe in a mid-tribulation rapture.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is also written that to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith will be counted as righteousness. Romans 4:5. So the Lord does justify the ungodly, or the unrighteous. It is just that He doesn't leave them in that state. They believe and are saved by faith and grace; and in this they are made into new creatures in Christ; which indicates a change of lifestyle, from iniquity unto holiness.

    First you say it has no backing, and then you say it is backed up by a single verse. I would say that if it is backed up by even a single verse of scripture, that we need to heed that verse. However, it is not backed up by a single verse only; it is backed up by four passages that I can think of (and there may be more):

    Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6, and Romans 4:1-8.

    The true grace of God is demonstrated in that a person will be made perfect after that they have suffered for a while (1 Peter 5:10-12 (kjv)). Grace is transforming.

    Jesus said, Ye must be born again; and this is never accomplished by any works on my part. If I give $5 or even $5,000,000 to the poor, this is not going to effect in me the new birth. I can only be saved by grace through faith: scripture is clear that my works are not going to save me (see references above).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There is a pre-tribulation rapture for those who are found worthy (overcomers in Philadelphia)...see Revelation 3:10.
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You are forgetting what it says in 1 John 3:2-3.

    In placing my expectation and hope in the coming rapture, I purify myself even as He is pure.
     
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