In an odd dither this morning

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess it's not really a dither. Just...thinking things through, I guess.

I was looking over some notes from speaking with a good friend a few weeks ago. He said one of the tablets was holiness laws and the other tablet was righteousness laws. So, he said, loving God is holiness, loving your neighbor is righteousness.

And in looking over the notes, it suddenly struck me that I am neither. I can have a basic courtesy towards others, but I do not love them as I love myself. And in fact, I'm confused about loving myself. I am selfish and it makes me hate myself, not love myself. (I'm in trouble if the phrase is true, that you can't love others until you learn to love yourself, because I find myself odious and difficult to bear with and I find others odious and difficult to bear with too. But I have no reason to believe the phrase is true.)

And if I can't love others who I see, I am not loving God who I don't see. So I am neither. Unless I say that manners and basic decency are love, which I don't believe. I think manners and basic decency are social conditioning.

But then there is what God says about the righteousness that is by trust. I used to say I trusted Him but I proved myself to be a liar by all of my worry. I went on that way for almost 13 years. But then I began to truly trust and I found that it was not impossible to do, whereas to love is impossible for me. And the last 9 months have been practicing that trust. I can sometimes begin to waver in it for a few minutes when I have a bad week at the shop and no real sales but then I turn back pretty quickly to trust and insist on it. (I realize that others are probably sick to death about me always talking about money/provision but its where my trust issues were, so its what I talk about.)

So...because I have finally begun to trust God in truth, not just in useless words, but actually practicing trust, He counts me as righteous. I don't feel righteous, because even if I manage to do what is right outwardly, my heart is sometimes a seething cauldron of resentment and...just, not loving, but being mannered and having a basic decency. But God says He counts it as righteousness if I trust Him. If the determination were left to me, I would not say I was righteous. I don't even know how it is possible that to trust Him is counted as righteousness, but He has said it, so I just have to believe Him. A righteous man does what is right but it doesn't really make sense to me because even when I do what is right outwardly, its often not really right because of what my heart is doing simultaneously...and yet, I trust Him and He says that is the righteousness that is by trust.

My problem is a lack of love, at least to my eyes. I can only love like the world loves, just a basic and mannered decency that I was taught. So it's almost as if God HAS to count me as righteous because of trust because I'm honestly not ever going to have the righteousness that is by loving my neighbor as myself. That righteousness is an impossibility for me. My heart can't do it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You know...its possible that righteousness is just not what I've thought it is or should be. I discovered that prayer isn't what I supposed it to be, so...its possible. Maybe righteousness is doing what's decent and the hearts motions can be wrong but...ah, I don't know...

 

[101G]

So...because I have finally begun to trust God in truth, not just in useless words, but actually practicing trust, He counts me as righteous. I don't feel righteous

not Juding you, nor saying that you're right or wrong in your assessment, but consider these words, "SPIRITUAL GROWING PAINS". Feeling have nothing to do with righteoussness, but (KNOWING & UNDERSTANDING) do.

as with prayer, comes the growing pains, but consider these words also, Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

I can only say this, "you're on the right road", we encourage you to seek and follow God as best as you can. just one thing when you pray, "just be honest in what you say, speak from your heart". God knows your heart. for he is tha author and finisher of your FAITH, for without FAITH we cannot please God.

be blessed.
PICJAG.

 

[Philip James]

That righteousness is an impossibility for me. My heart can't do

But HIS heart can. All things are possible with God!

Do not dispair but cry out to God with your broken heart.

May our Lord Jesus Christ fill you with the fire of His love.

Peace be with you!

 

[Willie T]

SBG,
Because someone you spoke with expressed an opinion, that makes it so? You received nothing more than something to mull over. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But HIS heart can. All things are possible with God!

Do not dispair but cry out to God with your broken heart.

May our Lord Jesus Christ fill you with the fire of His love.

Peace be with you!

Yes, all things are possible for Him. I've moved past despair over what I am and what my heart does. I still don't like it, but what good is it for me to despair? This is me. It is all of us. Well maybe I shouldn't say that last part. I'll just say this is me.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

SBG,
Because someone you spoke with expressed an opinion, that makes it so? You received nothing more than something to mull over. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think its an opinion. I can see that one tablet deals with loving God and the other deals with loving others. Or do you mean that it is opinion that loving God is holiness and loving others is righteousness?

 

[Willie T]

I don't think its an opinion. I can see that one tablet deals with loving God and the other deals with loving others. Or do you mean that it is opinion that loving God is holiness and loving others is righteousness?

I mean that every word out of his mouth was simply what he thinks he knows about words on the pages of whatever books he has read, and the conclusions he came to from considering that information. He may be right on some things, or he may not.

 

[Hidden In Him]

And in looking over the notes, it suddenly struck me that I am neither. I can have a basic courtesy towards others, but I do not love them as I love myself. And in fact, I'm confused about loving myself. I am selfish and it makes me hate myself, not love myself. (I'm in trouble if the phrase is true, that you can't love others until you learn to love yourself, because I find myself odious and difficult to bear with and I find others odious and difficult to bear with too. But I have no reason to believe the phrase is true.)

When we are convicted by the Spirit about attitudes we have taken towards others, we will always feel this way. We don't like ourselves for the way we are feeling and acting either.

And if I can't love others who I see, I am not loving God who I don't see. So I am neither. Unless I say that manners and basic decency are love, which I don't believe. I think manners and basic decency are social conditioning.

Yes, and this is where it gets rougher to take. We sense that the Spirit is displeased with us because we are walking in a wrong spirit.

But we all go through this on our way to finally becoming obedient : ) If it didn't hurt and didn't convict us, we would never change. You just have to get to where you see the wisdom in loving even the unlovable; the wisdom in blessing those who curse you, and doing good to those who despitefully use you.

I can sometimes begin to waver in it for a few minutes when I have a bad week at the shop and no real sales

Ah.... scripture says to guard your heart, for out of it flow the issues of life. Financial concerns and worries are another thing that can effect your attitudes towards others and towards life as a whole, so this is another thing that all believers have to conquer, getting to the place where they take no thought for tomorrow and what it will bring, and trusting completely that no matter what the stock market does, no matter what the economy does, no matter what one's employers or clientele do, the Lord Jesus Christ will provide. That just takes walking with Him enough to where you finally realize nothing will interfere with His ability to provide for you.

I don't feel righteous, because even if I manage to do what is right outwardly, my heart is sometimes a seething cauldron of resentment

Yep : ) The Spirit will never settle for this, for "out of the heart proceeds..." You're heading for a fall until you can kick ALL resentment out completely. Not always easy, but this is why you still feel... somewhat in a dither.

My problem is a lack of love, at least to my eyes. I can only love like the world loves, just a basic and mannered decency that I was taught. So it's almost as if God HAS to count me as righteous because of trust because I'm honestly not ever going to have the righteousness that is by loving my neighbor as myself. That righteousness is an impossibility for me. My heart can't do it.

No! Stunned By Grace, Don't say that to yourself. Listen, if I can do it then anyone can do it, and I'm not kidding you. In myself, I am mean as Hell sometimes, and even to this day. [Edited out. Sharing a little too much, LoL]. But it is going away now (after decades) because the Lord is slowly training me to see people in entirely different ways. The body of Christ, for instance. The way I see things now is, I am called to be a servant to even those who curse me and say I have no respect for all things holy and other stuff like that. It just bounces off me now, and I remain focused on trying to be a blessing to them. Why? Because He is training me to see people differently. I don't look at their sins, and I don't look at their insults. I look only at what I can continue to do for them, and how I can potentially be a blessing to them (hopefully).

Look, trust me, ok. If God can do this through an SOB like me, He can do them through anyone. You just need to keep walking with Him until He does.

Sorry if this post comes off as preachy. I just wrote what I felt led to say.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But we all go through this on our way to finally becoming obedient : ) If it didn't hurt and didn't convict us, we would never change. You just have to get to where you see the wisdom in loving even the unlovable; the wisdom in blessing those who curse you, and doing good to those who despitefully use you.

I see the wisdom in loving. That's not a problem. Its the doing the loving that I cannot do. It's useless to think I am truly loving if it's an outward doing while the motions of my heart are not hidden from Him, or from me for that matter.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I realize that others are probably sick to death about me always talking about money/provision but its where my trust issues were, so its what I talk about.

If it's a reoccurring thing, always remember to add in with your prayers that if He would have you doing another line of work to reveal to you what you can do. I may be a little uneasy at first if He finally tells me it is time to do a different line of work, but I trust Him. Even at 55 I believe He will take care of me, but I leave His options open (while nevertheless being careful not to cut ties with my present line of work too quickly).

 

[Hidden In Him]

I see the wisdom in loving. That's not a problem. Its the doing the loving that I cannot do.

Well what I mean is, you truly see it; see it enough that you change the way you are thinking, feeling and acting. For me, I realized that God is only going to reward those who are building His kingdom, not those who are tearing it down. And His kingdom in the earth is made up of believers. So if I am building believers up, I am building His kingdom. If I am tearing believers down, I am tearing down His kingdom.

This is what I mean by "seeing" it. I see exactly WHY I should be always treating others with kindness and respect even if they aren't showing it to me : )

 

[Willie T]

Let's not let being PC go to our heads. Was Jesus so worried about not appearing to be "loving" that He was afraid to call the Pharisees, "a brood of vipers?" There is something for us to learn in THAT verse, just as much as there is in many other verses.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Let's not let being PC go to our heads. Was Jesus so worried about not appearing to be "loving" that He was afraid to call the Pharisees, "a brood of vipers?" There is something for us to learn in THAT verse, just as much as there is in many other verses.

Well, yes. But I personally think He said these words under control. By that I mean, there wasn't resentment there, just an expressing of the truth regarding their spiritual condition and what spiritual forces were behind what they were doing.

SBG is expressing concern over the condition of her heart, and resentments definitely are something the believer has to guard against. Scripture calls it "bitterness," and it can eventually turn us into vipers if we allow it to build up in us : )

 

[Willie T]

Well, yes. But I personally think He said these words under control. By that I mean, there wasn't resentment there, just an expressing of the truth regarding their spiritual condition and what spiritual forces were behind what they were doing.

SBG is expressing concern over the condition of her heart, and resentments definitely are something the believer has to guard against. Scripture calls it "bitterness," and it can eventually turn us into vipers if we allow it to build up in us : )

All any of that means is that we are not Jesus. And, guess what? We never will be. We are all a work in progress, and we need to simply understand and accept that.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We are all a work in progress, and we need to simply understand and accept that.

Certainly we're a work in progress. But I think that's what's happening with StunnedByGrace right now. I think He is working on her to get her to a place where she doesn't feel bad about herself for what she feels in her heart towards people. My posts aren't a condemnation. I fully understand, and even shared my own weaknesses in this regard. But He never leaves us just as we are, and that is actually the good news for SBG. If she keeps going, she is going to get to the place of actually feeling love and forgiveness for others, and no longer have to just try and act them out even though she doesn't actually feel them personally.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Have to go, be back. Didn't want you guys to think I was ignoring you.

 

[Willie T]

I used to teach REBT (you can google it) and to demonstrate how our interaction with others is often (usually) clouded by our inaccurate perceptions and preconceptions, I gave this example to my clients:

You are suddenly cut off in traffic by a car veering directly in front of you, almost hitting you, then speeding off down the road. We don't even have to speculate about all the negative and retaliatory thoughts flashing through your mind.

A few miles further, you see that same car smashed into a telephone pole. You stop to gloat, and perhaps to inform the investigating officer of just what a jerk the guy is. But, as you are walking over to the ambulance, you hear the medics telling the officer how the man obviously suffered from a massive heart attack, probably ten minutes earlier, and was all but unconscious when he finally hit the pole.

You have to be awfully cold and callous to continue to harbor the feelings you had just so recently been glorying in. Why? Because you now had further information that made your earlier original emotional reaction seem foolish to you.

(It was Abraham Lincoln who said: "I don't think I like that man over there.... I believe I will go over and get to know him.")

 

[Pearl]

Jesus tells us that we are to love God with all our heart, all our mind and all our strength... and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Loving ourselves from God's perspective is not narcissism but rather just agreeing with how God sees us... We are fearfully and wonderfully made!

 

[marks]

I see the wisdom in loving. That's not a problem. Its the doing the loving that I cannot do. It's useless to think I am truly loving if it's an outward doing while the motions of my heart are not hidden from Him, or from me for that matter.

Hi stunnedbygrace,

I suggest that the will to serve is what love is.

I believe that feelings not in line with what God shows us are from the flesh, and in time they fade. Feelings that bring true affection and feelings of love will follow as we serve, and even if not, well, that may be something one must deal with.

My emotional make-up is not ideal to say the least! Having clinical depression gives me the gamut of emotions to deal with. But in reality they are all left behind when I just focus on the reality that God is here with me, and He loves me beyond all my understanding..

I think it truly is loving to make the choices to do the work of love when you don't have the feelings behind it.

How easy is it to care for those to whom your heart gushes in warmth? How much harder to care for those who leave you cold, but to serve them so they can't tell? Out of obedience to God's desire, focusing on His ability rather than my lack.

My heart goes to you!

Much love!