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Instrumental Music In Worship???

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33;, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33;

    Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33; New Member

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    Hello everyone, my name is Dustin and this is my first post. I am a member of Christ's church. I also hold a lot of beliefs that most "modern Christians" would disagree with. All of my beliefs are based on God's Word. I would like to discuss several subjects with every one here to help us all grow in God's Word. I am not looking for an argument!!! I am looking for good bible study so we can all find what is the will of God for man. The first subject that I chose is probably the most controversial of all of the subjects that I believe, and that is the subject of Instrumental Music in Worship. Here is a list of 10 reasons why I don't believe they are to be used in worship. please read them over and tell me what you think about these reasons.1) There is no command in the New Testament for Christians to use instruments of music in the worship of the church.2) There is no example in the New Testament of a church, apostle, teacher, or any Christian ever using an instrument in worship.3) It is not of faith, therefore it is sin (Romans 14:23).4) It is going beyond that which is written (1 Corinthians 4:6).5) It violates the command to “sing” (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16).6) Singing is commanded; the accompaniment of a musical instrument is an “addition” to this command, and therefore it is wrong (Rev. 22:18).7) The use of the instrument in worship to God is a failure to “abide in the doctrine of Christ” (2 John 9).8) Those who use the instrument in worship “reject” the authority of Christ (Matthew 28:19; Luke 6:46).9) It cannot be done “in the name” (or by the authority) of Jesus (1 Corinthians 4:6; Colossians 3:17).10) From the above evidences, the use of the instrument in worship is obviously not from Heaven, so it must be from men (Matthew 21:25).Thanks for your time and study.With Love in Christ,Dustin Humphreys
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Hi there, may I ask you why do you think that we aren't allowed to use instruments? And do you think that the Old Testament are done away with?Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Nothing personal I think your arguments are taking the word totally out of context to support your own thoughts. There is no evidence of instruments in church ? the defention of a church is where two or more gather together in the name of the Lord so the fact no intruments are mentioned is a mute point.If it is not faith its a sin??? how can you judge that? if one plays the harp while meditating on God who are you to say this isnt faith??? this is one of the woes of the end times to lose the following:Rev 18:22The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you againAnd What do you call trumpts if not instruments??? I think God has more important matters on his mind than musical instruments and to be honest I think he would be unhappy that you are using the messages in these verse's to apply to something as trival as instruments.you asked:)
     
  4. Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33;

    Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33; New Member

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    (thesuperjag;18869)
    Hi there, may I ask you why do you think that we aren't allowed to use instruments? And do you think that the Old Testament are done away with?Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
    Thank you for your response!the reason that I don't think we should use instruments in worship is because God told us what to do. In all of the Scriptures concerning Music in Worship We are told to sing. If we add instruments thats going beyond what is written. Yes, the scriptures tell us that we are no longer under the law(OT) but under grace.(Rom. 6:14)
    Nothing personal I think your arguments are taking the word totally out of context to support your own thoughts. There is no evidence of instruments in church ? the defention of a church is where two or more gather together in the name of the Lord so the fact no intruments are mentioned is a mute point.If it is not faith its a sin??? how can you judge that? if one plays the harp while meditating on God who are you to say this isnt faith???What do you call trumpts if not instruments??? I think God has more important matters on his mind than musical instruments and to be honest I think he would be unhappy that you are using the messages in these verse's to apply to something as trival as instruments.you asked
    Thanks you as well for your response!Actually silence is a valid point there are some things that God commanded not. But it was still understood that you shouldn't do it anyways. in Hebrews it said that Christ couldn't be an earthly preist because"For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." (Heb 7:14) here we see that God said that priest were to come out of the tribe of Levi, but he never said they could come out of the other tribes, but they understood what he meant. they understood that he spoke nothing concerning preists in the tribe of juda.every act of worship that we are commanded to do is spiritual. we are commanded to pray, preach(study), give, lord's supper, sing. If we add instruments, its kinda like saying you God you said you wanted me to sing, but I can really play the guitar so I'm gonna play it too. because Singing(vocal) and instrumental music is two completely different kinds of music, and we are commanded to sing(vocal) so that automatacally excludeds instruments, except the voice.Is Music really a trivial subject. I think that God has made it clear throughout history that he doesn't like people disobeying his commandments, and singing is a commandment. anything outside of singing would be sinful.With Love in Christ,Dustin Humphreys
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    DID you ever hear Christ said he came not to change one iota of the law but fulfill it Yes we are under Grace but the law has never been replaced nor made null and void.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I had to agree with Kriss. The scripture says it.Matthew 5:17-18 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.So the Old Testament is so valid even today.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Just a few examples: Why didn't you tell me, so I could send you away with joy and singing to the music of tambourines and harps?The musicians Heman, Asaph and Ethan were to sound the bronze cymbalsDavid told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.All the Levites who were musicians—Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun and their sons and relatives—stood on the east side of the altar, dressed in fine linen and playing cymbals, harps and lyres. They were accompanied by 120 priests sounding trumpets.As I said you are taking scripture completly out of context.
     
  8. Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33;

    Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33; New Member

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    (kriss;18875)
    DID you ever hear Christ said he came not to change one iota of the law but fulfill it Yes we are under Grace but the law has never been replaced nor made null and void.
    For what you are saying it seems that you have never read the book of hebrews, in this letter its main focus i show the new covanant is BETTER than the old covanent, and how the old covanant was old and ready to be replaced. You really need to ready Hebrews, especially chapters 7,8,9, and 10. (heb. 10:9) here is a scripture in hebrews that says that he takes away the first so he can establish the second.(jer.31:31-32) this is a prophecy of the establishment of the new covanent, the hebrew writer actually quotes from this in his letter to the hebrews in chapter 8.
    DID you ever hear Christ said he came not to change one iota of the law but fulfill it Yes we are under Grace but the law has never been replaced nor made null and void.
    In Hebrews Chapter 8 and verse 13 he tell us that he made the first covanent obsolete and I went online a looked up the word obsolete to get the correct definition and it said"1 a : no longer in use."With Love In Christ,Dustin Humphreys
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I have read the entire bible probably more times than you are old [​IMG] Did you read jags post?Matthew 5:17-18 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.What do you not understand the law is not changed.There is no contradictions in Gods word trying to prove the OT no longer valid to make a ridiculous instrument argument is absurdity. Please understand I'm not Not trying to be rude here but this laughable
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Are you kidding? Hebrew and Greek words surpasses English. We study Hebrew and Greek words...Hebrew is a fixed tongue whereof the English tongue is not.Leviticus 11:9-12 - These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.Let's just say that I ate something that had no fins or scales and eat it? So you are saying I can get away with it and continue to do so cause it's no longer useful?Better yet, I'll quote these verses.Malachi 3:6 - For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
     
  11. elmo

    elmo New Member

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    if the old testament is wrong why is it part of the "Bible"and if it is part wrong and part right then Id like to know exactly what is wrong and what is rightthe books psalms speaks of many instruments, written by David, a servant of God and why would God not be mad a David in the old testament for using instrument and yet get mad at people in the new testament which we're livingDidn't God say he was the same yesterday, today and tomorrow?if God goes back on his word I want to know (about what) (where in the bible) (and why he went back on his word)that's all I want to say
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You must uderstand that there is a differnce between the Laws and ordinances these are completley different. Laws God dosent change, Ordinances are what is old and replaced. Hebrews 10:9 "Then said He, "Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God," He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second."God did take away the first [the blood sacrifices and ordinances] when His Son went to the cross. With the death of Christ on the cross the establishment of the second was completed. He took those blood sacrifices and ordinances away because the blood of Christ paid the price for one and all times. God did not take away the law, but the blood sacrifices and those things that were required under those ordinances. No blood sacrifice can sent the Holy Spirit, for it is dead and gone. But at Christ death, the Holy Spirit did come and it warms the heart of everyone that He touches.
     
  13. Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33;

    Godamp;#39;s Word Is TRUTHamp;#33;amp;#33;amp;#33; New Member

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    (kriss;18884)
    I have read the entire bible probably more times than you are old [​IMG] Did you read jags post?Matthew 5:17-18 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.What do you not understand the law is not changed.There is no contradictions in Gods word trying to prove the OT no longer valid to make a ridiculous instrument argument is absurdity. Please understand I'm not Not trying to be rude here but this laughable
    Ahh!! the age factor, i knew it would come up.[​IMG] but when someone brings it up it reminds me of a scripture (1 tim. 4:12) let no one dispise your youth.I'm just wondering, did you read any of the scriptures that I posted last, you know the one where it said that he took away the first to establish the second. or where it said that the first was obsolete. or any of hebrews.
    Are you kidding? Hebrew and Greek words surpasses English. We study Hebrew and Greek words...Hebrew is a fixed tongue whereof the English tongue is not.
    Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith (en tôi legein). Locative case of the articular present active infinitive of legô, "in the saying as to him." He hath made the first old (pepalaiôken tên prôtên). Perfect active indicative of palaioô, old verb from palaios (in contrast with kainos, fresh, new), to treat as old and out of date. The conclusion is to the point. That which is becoming old and waxeth aged (to palaioumenon kai gêraskon). Gêraskô is old verb from gêras (age) like gerôn (old man) and refers to the decay of old age so that both ideas appear here in opposition to kainos (palaios) and neos (geraios). Is nigh unto vanishing away (eggus aphanismou). Genitive case with eggus and late word for disappearance (from aphanizô,
    Let's just say that I ate something that had no fins or scales and eat it? So you are saying I can get away with it and continue to do so cause it's no longer useful?
    in (Acts 10 14-15) peter has a dream where God tells him that there are no longer unclean meats. because he has made them clean.
    Better yet, I'll quote these verses.Malachi 3:6 - For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    yes that is true God does not chage, but he does change the way that he deals with man. in Jer. 31:31-32 he plainly tells us hey, there is going to come a day where I am going to make a new covanent with man, that is not like the covanent I made with your fathersWith Love In Christ,Dustin Humphreys
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Like my dear sweet sister Kriss in Christ said...There is a difference between ordinance and the laws.The Ordinances - Do we still shed a literal lamb today for repenting the sins? Or do we shed the spiritual Lamb to repent for our sins?The Laws - Are we suppose to follow the Ten Commandments? or we don't? Yahshua quoted laws from the Old Testament.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  15. elmo

    elmo New Member

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    once again my comment didn't get through...as I wrote:if the old testament is false why did God choose to include it in the Bible as the truthand if The OT is part true and part false which part is true and which false so I can know for future referencesand as an example, in psalms David described many instrument and even played music for former king saul when saul was tourmented by evil spirits.please tell me, did it also not say in the bibleGod is the same yesterday today and forever?if so, than tell me how did God ever change in the old testament vs. the new testament?
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    GodsWordistruth do you read what we post? or just give your interpetations I will repeat my post againYou must uderstand that there is a differnce between the Laws and ordinances these are completely different. Laws God doesnt change, Ordinances are what is old and replaced. this is fact not speculationHebrews 10:9 "Then said He, "Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God," He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second."God did take away the first [the blood sacrifices and ordinances] when His Son went to the cross. With the death of Christ on the cross the establishment of the second was completed. He took those blood sacrifices and ordinances away because the blood of Christ paid the price for one and all times. God did not take away the law, but the blood sacrifices and those things that were required under those ordinances. No blood sacrifice can sent the Holy Spirit, for it is dead and gone. But at Christ death, the Holy Spirit did come and it warms the heart of everyone that He touches.Did you see Ordinances were taken Away not the Laws This is facts not my guess or something I made up therefore your interpitation that this verse means the Law was replaced is wrongNow I hate for a little thing like facts to disprove your ideas but it is what it is.
     
  17. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    It should have been a sin to be this dumb !
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    It is a sin my dear sweet sister...Matthew 16:6 - Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.I John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.False teachers, false prophet shall be judged first by the Judge.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  19. elmo

    elmo New Member

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    twice I posted a statement on this subject and twice it didn't get through...so Im going to repeat myself...if the old testament is wrong about instruments in church(because it does speak of instruments in psalms for example) then why would the OT be in the Bible referring to the Bible as the truthand if the bible teachings in the old testaments (besides animal sacrifices, because God replaced animals sacrifices with himself as the ultimate sacrifice on the cross) are part true and part false I would like to know what is true and what is false, in scripture notation, and futhurmoreI say this"God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow"so he hasn't changed
     
  20. elmo

    elmo New Member

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    I understand now that God never changed but the way he deals with us changes but why give people in the old testament the right to have instruments in church and yet it is not okay any more?
     
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