Interesting Read on Bible Versions
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Thank you, but this won't move me from reading the KJV as my primary English Bible. There's nothing in the article I haven't read previously but it is a good refresher and I would not discourage people from reading it, in spite of my preference. Note that my preference is NOT due to a belief that the KJV is the best translation, but rather that is the best for me. What I have learned from it cannot easily be translated in myself from another version that I don't read regularly. I have never read another English version regularly and after all of these years in it, I hardly think a change would be helpful for me. I speak for no one else.
Cannot God guide a person through even the worst of translations [which one is that?] to his Truth, if the person is really hungry for His kingdom and His righteousness?
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled." Matt 5:6 [Modern KJV]
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be completely satisfied." Matt 5:6 [Weymouth]
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled" Matt 5:6 [NIV]
"Happy are those who long to be just and good, for they shall be completely satisfied" Matt 5:6 [Living Bible]
Give God the glory!
Cannot God guide a person through even the worst of translations [which one is that?] to his Truth, if the person is really hungry for His kingdom and His righteousness?
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled." Matt 5:6 [Modern KJV]
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be completely satisfied." Matt 5:6 [Weymouth]
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled" Matt 5:6 [NIV]
"Happy are those who long to be just and good, for they shall be completely satisfied" Matt 5:6 [Living Bible]
Give God the glory!
God can use any bible but he does expect us to use resources that assist our growth the best.
What you say is so, but don't presume to say that what is best for you is necessarily best for everyone else. We are, or should be, led in our walk with God by the Holy Spirit. Let the Holy Spirit in a person be the Helper, the one that assists, so that our growth is best as God sees it for us. We are NOT all the same part of the Body of Christ. The Head, Jesus, ministers to each part of His Body as I believe through the Holy Spirit which connects us all to Him. If you are not the Head, you should not presume to serve in that capacity.
I'd never told to which one to use. Just shared information.
On this thread, yes.
On other threads you have expressed a disregard for the KJV in particular. On one thread without addressing me directly you repeated my quoted KJV verses with the same verses from another translation. Was your purpose intended only to help others understand better? You need not answer.
It seems some are strongly for KJV while others are strongly against it, based usually on the expert opinions of other men, for the one side or for the other side. Do we really suppose God has a side in this that applies or should be applied to every man?
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I do strongly love the KJV.
It is a translation, of course; and I use various other versions in other languages.
Not a disregard but a recognition that the KJV is loaded with errors, hard to read for most and some treat it as if it is a God given and ordained version over all others. In fact the only one that should be used.
I post the NIV when the subject is very important, the KJV is difficult to understand or has an error in the verse.
I believe God wants us to be as accurate as we is such discussions. And that is not the King James version.
The word is sharper than any two edged sword. But the issues with the King James version can dull it for many.
The work I did in intelligence and government demanded accuracy. No errors were acceptable, regardless of how small.
The bible has eternal consequences. So the demand for accuracy is even higher.
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There's nothing new or enlightening in this article. Same old, same old.
Plus a few lies to add spice. So let's take it apart.
1. THE LANGUAGE OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE: Everyone knows that the language of the KJV is from the 17th century. Why did this person fail to point out that the King James Bible 2000 and a few others have already addressed this issue? Of course, that would take the wind out of her sails.
2. THE KJV HAS BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL EDITIONS: So what? That was perfectly legitimate in order to keep the spellings and punctuation current. However, there was absolutely no change in the actual words. And here's the proof.
ORIGINAL KJV
In the beginning God created the Heauen, and the Earth. And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deepe: and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters.
CURRENT KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
So what do we see? MINOR changes in spelling and orthography.
3. KING JAMES AUTHORISED THE NEW BIBLE TRANSLATION FOR POLITICAL REASONS: So what? The end result was an OUTSTANDING English translation that has continued for over 400 years and was the sole English Bible for over 300 years. This accusation is a straw man which is designed to give the impression that the translation itself has been corrupted for political reasons. That is TOTAL BALONEY.
4. THE TRANSLATORS OF THE KJV 1611 WERE UNTRAINED IN KOINE GREEK: Now this is TOTAL GARBAGE. The KJV translators were OUTSTANDING scholars in their own right, well versed not only in English and Latin, but Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.
'Of the fifty-four translators, four were college presidents, six were bishops, five were deans, thirty held PhD’s, thirty-nine held Masters degrees, there were forty-one university professors, thirteen were masters of the Hebrew language, and ten had mastered Greek. Every man involved in the King James Bible translation believed in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, all believed in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and all were men of prayer. Many were not only Biblical scholars and master linguists, but also God-called, Spirit-filled preachers. Yet the translators considered themselves “poor instruments to make God s holy truth to be yet more and more known unto the people.”'
The Translators of the King James Bible
5. THE KJV TRANSLATION OF THE NT IS BASED ON RELATIVELY RECENT GREEK MANUSCRIPTS. Again. TOTAL NONSENSE. The testimony of Bishop Ellicott -- who was no friend to the King James Bible nor its Greek text -- refutes this myth created to put down the KJV:
THE TESTIMONY OF BISHOP ELLICOTT DISPELS THIS MYTH
As for the Received Text being based on “seven late manuscripts,” consider further the testimony of Bishop Ellicott, the chairman of the committee that produced the English Revised Version of 1881 (the committee also included Westcott and Hort), the predecessor of all modern versions:
“THE MANUSCRIPTS WHICH ERASMUS USED DIFFER, FOR THE MOST PART, ONLY IN SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT DETAILS, FROM THE GREAT BULK OF THE CURSIVE MSS. The general character of their text is the same. By this observation the pedigree of the Received Text is carried up beyond the individual manuscripts used by Erasmus ... That pedigree stretches back to remote antiquity. THE FIRST ANCESTOR OF THE RECEIVED TEXT WAS AT LEAST CONTEMPORARY WITH THE OLDEST OF OUR EXTANT MSS, IF NOT OLDER THAN ANY ONE OF THEM” (Ellicott, The Revisers and the Greek Text of the N.T. by two members of the N.T. Company, pp. 11-12).
Is the Received Text Based on a Few Late Manuscripts?
6. THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS, OR RECEIVED TEXT, IS BASICALLY ERASMUS’ GREEK TEXT. This is another myth created by the enemies of the KJV. Erasmus was THE FIRST of many Greek scholars to put the Greek New Testament into print (1516 AD). As noted above, his text can be traced all the way back to the original autographs -- as confirmed by the enemy. There were about two dozen editions of this text between 1516 and 1633 (over 100 years). It is generally agreed that the 1550 Textus Receptus of Robert Estienne (Stephanus) is considered the Received Text.
Editions of the Greek New Testament
7. ALL EARLY EDITIONS OF THE KJV CONTAINED THE APOCRYPHAL BOOKS: Again, SO WHAT? Unlike the Catholic bibles, the King James translators were fully aware that the Apocrypha contained non-canonical books, therefore it was placed separately between the Old and New Testaments (where it belongs historically). The Catholic bibles mix the Apocrypha into the OT, but the KJV translators informed the reader that those books were not Scripture.
8. CRITICISMS OF RECENT BIBLE TRANSLATIONS: Anyone who knows anything seriously about this subject will understand that ever since Westcott & Hort, ALL MODERN VERSIONS are based upon the *critical texts* of the scholars who have rejected the Textus Receptus and replaced it with a corrupted Greek text based upon a handful of Gnostic corruptions -- Aleph, A, B, C, D and a few others. But this writer Marg is trying to deceive the reader by claiming that they are not all essentially the same.
...and we have sufficiently explained how it comes to pass that not a few of the codices of primitive Christendom must have exhibited Texts which were even scandalously corrupt. “It is no less true to fact than paradoxical in sound,” writes the most learned of the Revisionist body,“that the worst corruptions, to which the New Testament has ever been subjected, originated within a hundred years after it was composed: that Irenæus [A.D. 150] and the African Fathers, and the whole Western, with a portion of the Syrian Church, used far inferior manuscripts to those employed by Stunica, or Erasmus, or Stephens thirteen centuries later, when moulding the Textus Receptus.” And what else are codices Aleph B C D but specimens—in vastly different degrees—of the class thus characterized by Prebendary Scrivener? Nay, who will venture to deny that those codices are indebted for their preservation solely to the circumstance, that they were long since recognized as the depositories of Readings which rendered them utterly untrustworthy?
Burgon, The Revision Revised, pages 55-56
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
God gave us Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they are the best resources, but usually lie forgotten and unwanted.
The only real problem with the KJV is that the younger generations, for the most part, can't even read modern English well enough to locate a bus stop or tell what is in a package at the grocery store. Why ask them to have to also try to read in a dead language no one uses anymore? We have some seriously limited children when it comes to Comprehension and Critical Thinking, and we seem to think it is somehow cute to complicate their lives even further when it comes to Spiritual matters. (Seriously, "Thee" and "Thou" are not words Jesus and the disciples used.)
As I already mentioned above, that issue has already been addressed. So in fact it is a non-issue. Here is a portion of Romans 2 from the King James 2000 Bible:
Romans Chapter 2
God’s Righteous Judgment
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whosoever you are that judge: for in what you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them who commit such things.
3 And do you think, O man, that judge them who do such things, and do the same, that you shall escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart treasure up unto yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
For the thinking behind this version, see here.
The King James Version 2000 - Preserving the KJV for the 21st Century - Home
The King James 2000is a different version from the KJV. As is the New King James Version and other variations.
The KJVOist reject all of them.
Funny that group does not demand the 1611 version only.
King James Bible
Here is the KJV:
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
The KJVOist reject all of them.
Funny that group does not demand the 1611 version only.
King James Bible
Here is the KJV:
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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Your points are well taken except you neglect the ability of God to know all of the circumstances and to fill in any gaps or correct any apparent errors when appropriate.
No one whose heart is directed toward God, that is toward the Truth of God, will go far astray. People go astray because of their own shortcomings and/or their own blindness, which speaks to heart rather than to intelligence or to accuracy in what men put together.
I wasn't involved in intelligence but rather with people who came into Social Security offices primarily in California, Wyoming and Oklahoma wanting to know what was available, what was theirs and what to do about it. Are people really coming to God, or wanting to come to God so different?
In the Social Security office I was usually the final interpreter for them. In the things of God we should 0have the Holy Spirit as our interpreter. God may work through people to interpret but if the interpretation is good, it is NOT because of the Bible version or language but because someone is NOT paying attention to the leading of the Holy Spirit:
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28 [KJV]
"If there be no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God." I Cor 14:28 [NIV]
1
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 [KJV]
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26 [NIV]
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A comparison… and why I like various translations.
Romans 2 The Passion Translation (TPT)
God Judges Sin
2 No matter who you are, before you judge the wickedness of others, you had better remember this: you are also without excuse, for you too are guilty of the same kind of things! When you judge others, and then do the same things they do, you condemn yourself. 2 We know that God’s judgment falls upon those who practice these things. God is always right, because he has all the facts. 3 And no matter who you think you are, when you judge others who do these things and then do the same things yourself, what makes you think that you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Do the riches of his extraordinary kindness make you take him for granted and despise him? Haven’t you experienced how kind and understanding he has been to you? Don’t mistake his tolerance for acceptance. Do you realize that all the wealth of his extravagant kindness is meant to melt your heart and lead you into repentance? 5 But because of your calloused heart and refusal to change direction, you are piling up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed.
6 For:
He will give to each one in return for what he has done.
7 For those living in constant goodness and doing what pleases him, seeking an unfading glory and honor and imperishable virtue, will experience eternal life. 8 But those governed by selfishness and self-promotion, whose hearts are unresponsive to God’s truth and would rather embrace unrighteousness, will experience the fullness of wrath.
9 Anyone who does evil can expect tribulation and distress—to the Jew first and also to the non-Jew. 10 But when we do what pleases God, we can expect unfading glory, true honor, and a continual peace—to the Jew first and also to the non-Jew, 11 for God sees us all without partiality.
12 When people who have never been exposed to the laws of Moses commit sin, they will still perish for what they do. And those who are under the law of Moses and fail to obey it are condemned by the law. 13 For it’s not merely knowing the law that makes you right with God, but doing all that the law says that will cause God to pronounce you innocent.
God’s Judgment
14 For example, whenever people who don’t possess the law as their birthright commit sin, it still confirms that a “law” is present in their conscience. For when they instinctively do what the law requires, that becomes a “law” to govern them, even though they don’t have Mosaic law. 15 It demonstrates that the requirements of the law are woven into their hearts. They know what is right and wrong, for their conscience validates this “law” in their heart. Their thoughts correct them in one instance and commend them in another. 16 So this judgment will be revealed on the day when God, through Jesus the Messiah, judges the hidden secrets of people’s hearts. And their response to the gospel I preach will be the standard of judgment used in that day.
How many people realize there were several versions of the King James version and the one in use today is from 1769?
I grew up in the antique trade. Word said change so much from the early 1900s.
An example is to call a man a gay fellow then meant he was happy man. Not a homosexual.
I grew up in the antique trade. Word said change so much from the early 1900s.
An example is to call a man a gay fellow then meant he was happy man. Not a homosexual.
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