Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

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Humbleman

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Oct 24, 2010
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I was wondering what people believe about Baptism. Is is necessary for salvation? Or can one be saved without being baptized? Please use the Bible to back up your belief.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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I was wondering what people believe about Baptism. Is is necessary for salvation? Or can one be saved without being baptized? Please use the Bible to back up your belief.

Welcome to this forum

Mark 1
[sup]4[/sup] John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. [sup]5[/sup] Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.
[sup]6[/sup] Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. [sup]7[/sup] And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. [sup]8[/sup] I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”



Ephesians 1
[sup]13[/sup] In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [sup]14[/sup] who[sup][b][/sup] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The key in my opinion, is a proper mind and understanding of salvation. Rom 12:2

Jer 17:10
Jer 11:20
Jer 20:12
Rev 2:23
Ps 7:9

need more faith Rom 10:17

Be confident
Phil 1:6
2 Tim 1:7
 

Anastacia

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Oct 23, 2010
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Unless death or injury stops a person....a person should get water baptized.


John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

We are still to be water baptized, for the remission of sins….to prepare the way for Jesus Christ into our lives.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



We are to get baptized with water. Even after the Holy Spirit came…people were baptized in water.

Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” Acts 10:47



Water baptism is a pledge of a clear conscience toward God. And baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Our old nature is to die and we are to be “buried with Him through baptism into death.” We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to walk in newness of life (live like Jesus).

See Romans 6:4…
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Johns Baptism was before the coming of the Holy Spirit, it was exclusively for the Jews, no Gentiles were baptized before this account in acts 10. Acts 10 is the going out of salvation from the Jews to the nations of the earth just as the promise to Abraham said Gen 12:3 Gal 3:8 , threw you all nations will be blessed.

Verse 34-43 Peter speaks the message of salvation threw Jesus
Verse 44 The Holy Spirit fell upon all those that HEARD THE WORD. Just as Paul teaches Eph 1:13-14
Now Peter says that they can be baptized. After they received the HS
Its this going forth of salvation from the Jews to the Gentiles that most churches teach that water baptism is an outward sign of an inward work.
In other words you are properly baptized in water after you receive the Holy Spirit.
Please don't make the mistake in believing that you receive the Holy Spirit at the time you decide you need to be water baptized there is no scripture that supports this notion.

Acts 10
[sup]34[/sup] Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. [sup]35[/sup] But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. [sup]36[/sup] The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— [sup]37[/sup] that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: [sup]38[/sup] how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. [sup]39[/sup] And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they[sup][e][/sup] killed by hanging on a tree. [sup]40[/sup] Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, [sup]41[/sup] not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. [sup]42[/sup] And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. [sup]43[/sup] To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

[sup]44[/sup] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. [sup]45[/sup] And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. [sup]46[/sup] For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, [sup]47[/sup] “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” [sup]48[/sup] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Jesus Himself said its the Father who sends the HS. He who knows mens hearts and minds.

John 14
[sup]15[/sup] “If you love Me, keep[sup][d][/sup] My commandments. [sup]16[/sup] And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— [sup]17[/sup] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. [sup]18[/sup] I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 1
[sup]4[/sup] And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; [sup]5[/sup] for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” [sup]6[/sup] Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” [sup]7[/sup] And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. [sup]8[/sup] But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[sup][a][/sup] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Now Think on this John 15:2-3 cleaned by the word.
Hearing the word, Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word
 

Humbleman

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Oct 24, 2010
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Hey all, I like to thank the people who took time to post their beliefs on the topic "baptism". I hope it will continue.
I will briefly tell you my belief , "is baptism is necessary for salvation?"
Why should one be baptized?
1. Because Christ commanded it. Mark 16:16

2. For (unto) the remission of sins. Acts 2:38

3. To wash away sins. Acts 22:16

4. Because Peter said that baptism saves. 1 Pet. 3:21

5. To enter Christ. Gal. 3:26-27

6. To reach the atoning blood of Christ shed in his death. Rom. 6:3-4; John 19:34
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Hey all, I like to thank the people who took time to post their beliefs on the topic "baptism". I hope it will continue.
I will briefly tell you my belief , "is baptism is necessary for salvation?"
Why should one be baptized?
1. Because Christ commanded it. Mark 16:16

2. For (unto) the remission of sins. Acts 2:38

3. To wash away sins. Acts 22:16

4. Because Peter said that baptism saves. 1 Pet. 3:21

5. To enter Christ. Gal. 3:26-27

6. To reach the atoning blood of Christ shed in his death. Rom. 6:3-4; John 19:34

So I am going to presume you mean all the usages of the word baptism above are referring to water baptism.
Its pretty clear from scripture there are 2 one of water and one of Spirit, the latter one is what saves.

In short I would recommend using Strong's Lexicon numbers to see the use of the Greek words translated baptism. http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

907. baptizo bap-tid'-zo from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.

908. baptisma bap'-tis-mah from 907; baptism (technically or figuratively):--baptism. 909. baptismos bap-tis-mos' from 907; ablution (ceremonial or Christian):--baptism, washing. 910. Baptistes bap-tis-tace' from 907; a baptizer, as an epithet of Christ's forerunner:--Baptist.



Mark 16:16 is from Jesus speaking to the Hebrews and referencing Johns baptism 907 it is speaking of those that heard John and believe in Jesus but before the HS is given to the Apostles in Acts.

Acts 2:38 Peter has spoken the word and the hearers are cut to the heart and ask what shall we do. 907 its an outward act of an in word conversion / conviction.

1 Peter 3:21 Peter




18 For Christ also suffered nonce for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death pin the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which3 he went and qproclaimed4 to the spirits in prison, 20 because5 they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this,(SEE ABOVE BOLD TEXT) now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and xis at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

The word used here is 908 its used figuratively in reference to the context. being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, Water baptism is is a figurative expression of the baptism that saves threw Jesus, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Gal. 3:26-27 Here Paul uses 907 but follows with the definition "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." It would seem to be clear that Paul is speaking of the baptism of the HS.

Rom 6:3-4 the same is true in Romans, he follows with into Christ, not into repentance. So you cant just go threw scripture and find every accout of the word baptism and apply it to water immersion. If you look, perhaps you will see many things that were done by men that are a reflection of the reality. Water baptism is a reflection of the reality of being baptized with the Holy Spirit. It was introduced by John whom God used to prepare the way for the real thing. Those Jews that received Johns baptism and believed on the one whom John pointed them to, were destine to receive the reality, being born again of the Spirit. It was Gods provision to those that heard and knew the truth, outside of the teachings of Pharisee's. This distinction must also be realized when reading scripture, at what time were they speaking before Pentecost or after. As I said before baptism was first exclusively for the Jews pre Pentecost. As you pointed out in Acts it follows the work of the Spirit. In fact Acts 2 was before the Spirit was pored out on the Gentiles, so these were Jews who were not baptized by Johns baptismal but were convicted by the Spirit.

Jews born of the Spirit

Acts 2 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

now compare that with the Gentiles receiving the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Its the reverse order from Acts 2, first convicted by the Spirit, now repent and be baptized, then you shall receive the HS. This is the Jewish salvation method.
Acts 10 they received by hearing then were baptized. This is the method to the Gentiles.

To summarize baptism was necessary for the Jews to receive the HS. It was not necessary for the Gentiles. I could explain it in more detail but I find such things are not for the majority you must know the basics, those basics include the times in which things take place in context with to whom they were intended. There is a reason the Jews were required to be baptized before the promise went to all the Nations. After the pouring out of the Spirit on Cornelius and his house hold, all men including Jews are saved by faith threw grace. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people, I believe that week ended when Cornelius and his household received the promise. Just look at all the hevenly signs to both Cornelius and Paul, this event was orchestrated from above in person. But don't get me wrong just as Peter says, Acts 10 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, the question is do you? Do you understand that all men now stand on equal ground. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people.

Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God.
 

Anastacia

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Oct 23, 2010
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My replies to bud02 in blue.

So I am going to presume you mean all the usages of the word baptism above are referring to water baptism.
Its pretty clear from scripture there are 2 one of water and one of Spirit, the latter one is what saves.

Exactly which of the scriptures given are you saying is about water baptism, and which ones do you think are about baptism of the Holy Spirit?

In short I would recommend using Strong's Lexicon numbers to see the use of the Greek words translated baptism. http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Why are you relying so heavily on Strong's interpretation of the Bible? He is a man that could and does makes mistakes.

907. baptizo bap-tid'-zo from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.

908. baptisma bap'-tis-mah from 907; baptism (technically or figuratively):--baptism. 909. baptismos bap-tis-mos' from 907; ablution (ceremonial or Christian):--baptism, washing. 910. Baptistes bap-tis-tace' from 907; a baptizer, as an epithet of Christ's forerunner:--Baptist.
I don't see the good explanation here. Do you think you might point it out and explain it better to me? We can be immersed in the water---for a water baptism, and when Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, we can be immersed with the Holy Spirit.



Mark 16:16 is from Jesus speaking to the Hebrews and referencing Johns baptism 907 it is speaking of those that heard John and believe in Jesus but before the HS is given to the Apostles in Acts.

Acts 2:38 Peter has spoken the word and the hearers are cut to the heart and ask what shall we do. 907 its an outward act of an in word conversion / conviction.

Acts 2:28 is also about water baptism. 1 Peter talks about the water which saves. And in another scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 is also about water, water from the sea, and water of the cloud. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

1 Peter 3:21 Peter
18 For Christ also suffered nonce for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death pin the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which3 he went and qproclaimed4 to the spirits in prison, 20 because5 they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this,(SEE ABOVE BOLD TEXT) now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and xis at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

The word used here is 908 its used figuratively in reference to the context. being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, Water baptism is is a figurative expression of the baptism that saves threw Jesus, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:21 is about water baptism and "an appeal to God for a good conscience." Peter speaks about the water which saves. And in another scripture, Paul speaks about the water which saved too...1 Corinthians 10:1-2 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

So are you really trying to say it doesn't have anything to do with actual water?

Gal. 3:26-27 Here Paul uses 907 but follows with the definition "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." It would seem to be clear that Paul is speaking of the baptism of the HS.

Don't know what your trying to say. You can't say Galatians 3:26 has nothing to do with water baptism, in fact, it is much like Romans 6:3-4. Why are you trying to get rid of water baptism? You are denying the scriptures. Believers get water baptized. And some are baptized with the Holy Spirit before water baptism, and some are baptized with the Holy Spirit after water baptism.

Rom 6:3-4 the same is true in Romans, he follows with into Christ, not into repentance. What are you talking about? Romans 6:3-4 illustrates water baptism!
So you cant just go threw scripture and find every accout of the word baptism and apply it to water immersion. Seems like you are trying to get rid of water baptism. If you look, perhaps you will see many things that were done by men that are a reflection of the reality. Water baptism is a reflection of the reality of being baptized with the Holy Spirit. It was introduced by John whom God used to prepare the way for the real thing. Those Jews that received Johns baptism and believed on the one whom John pointed them to, were destine to receive the reality, being born again of the Spirit. It was Gods provision to those that heard and knew the truth, outside of the teachings of Pharisee's. This distinction must also be realized when reading scripture, at what time were they speaking before Pentecost or after. As I said before baptism was first exclusively for the Jews pre Pentecost. As you pointed out in Acts it follows the work of the Spirit. In fact Acts 2 was before the Spirit was pored out on the Gentiles, so these were Jews who were not baptized by Johns baptismal but were convicted by the Spirit. Are you trying to get rid of confessing/repenting?

Jews born of the Spirit

Acts 2 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

now compare that with the Gentiles receiving the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Its the reverse order from Acts 2, first convicted by the Spirit, now repent and be baptized, then you shall receive the HS. This is the Jewish salvation method.
Acts 10 they received by hearing then were baptized. This is the method to the Gentiles.
There isn't a different methold of salvation for the Jews and a different one for Gentiles.
To summarize baptism was necessary for the Jews to receive the HS. It was not necessary for the Gentiles. I could explain it in more detail but I find such things are not for the majority you must know the basics, No, this isn't right.
those basics include the times in which things take place in context with to whom they were intended. There is a reason the Jews were required to be baptized before the promise went to all the Nations. The Jews had to repent. And so do the Gentiles!

After the pouring out of the Spirit on Cornelius and his house hold, all men including Jews are saved by faith threw grace. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people, I believe that week ended when Cornelius and his household received the promise. Just look at all the hevenly signs to both Cornelius and Paul, this event was orchestrated from above in person. But don't get me wrong just as Peter says, Acts 10 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
From 1 Corinthians 10:1-2, Galatians 3:26, Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21, you should be able to see that your theory is wrong. Don't try to do away with repenting and water baptism.


Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, the question is do you? Do you understand that all men now stand on equal ground. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people.

Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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Lets just say we don't understand each other.
I feel a bit mislead in replying to Humblemans second post on this forum, but its feels as thou I was batted into a topic that he already had an firm opinion about.
I've conversed on this topic many times and its clear that you and he see baptism as the same in every situation reguardless of the time or to whom or what it applies to.
I'm certain that someone knows what I'm talking about, God bless
 

Anastacia

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Oct 23, 2010
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Lets just say we don't understand each other.
I feel a bit mislead in replying to Humblemans second post on this forum, but its feels as thou I was batted into a topic that he already had an firm opinion about.
I've conversed on this topic many times and its clear that you and he see baptism as the same in every situation reguardless of the time or to whom or what it applies to.
I'm certain that someone knows what I'm talking about, God bless


I think I do understand you....I just hate to think that you are really trying to talk people out of water baptism. So, you don't want to look again at 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 ? You don't want to admit that these scriptures were about literal water too? When the earth was flooded in Noah's time, and the time with the cloud and Moses, and the parting of the sea....you don't want to admit it is about water?

As for Humbleman....so what he wants to talk about water baptism? There's nothing wrong with that. I think it is good that he brought it up, especially if there are Christians who don't see water baptism in the scriptures when it is there, and those who don't think it is even a necessary to do.

I love you in Christ. I hope you know that.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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I think I do understand you....I just hate to think that you are really trying to talk people out of water baptism. So, you don't want to look again at 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 ? You don't want to admit that these scriptures were about literal water too? When the earth was flooded in Noah's time, and the time with the cloud and Moses, and the parting of the sea....you don't want to admit it is about water?

As for Humbleman....so what he wants to talk about water baptism? There's nothing wrong with that. I think it is good that he brought it up, especially if there are Christians who don't see water baptism in the scriptures when it is there, and those who don't think it is even a necessary to do.

Who said anything about talking people out of water baptism? Would you consider baptism a work of the flesh? I would, so If its nessasary as you say then we must ignore the teaching that we are saved threw faith by grace, not of works. Eph 2:8-9 Gal 2:16

My intent is to bring understanding to the concept in context of all scripture, so you can fully understand the concept. I never said don't be baptized, but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit? Will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation? Or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation? If you notice I closed my last reply with, Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God. Rom 3:20
 

Anastacia

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Oct 23, 2010
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Who said anything about talking people out of water baptism? Would you consider baptism a work of the flesh? I would, so If its nessasary as you say then we must ignore the teaching that we are saved threw faith by grace, not of works. Eph 2:8-9 Gal 2:16

My intent is to bring understanding to the concept in context of all scripture, so you can fully understand the concept. I never said don't be baptized, but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit? Will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation? Or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation? If you notice I closed my last reply with, Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God. Rom 3:20


You deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism as speaking of water baptism. When you deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism and say it is not about water baptism---you ARE then trying to talk people out of the truth. You don't understand the scriptures. You ask me "will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation?" A PERSON WHO ALREADY BELIEVES GETS WATER BAPTIZED. UNBELIEVERS DON'T GET BAPTIZED. You said "I never said don't be baptized" and then you said "but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit"! We are commanded to be baptized! It is a pledge of a good conscience! You say "or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation?" I praise God for revealing the truth to me about water baptism. I pray that you will stop believing that THOSE SCRIPTURES WE DISCUSSED DON'T TALK ABOUT WATER BAPTISM. You STILL haven't acknowledged your error in 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.
 

bud02

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Aug 14, 2010
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You deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism as speaking of water baptism. When you deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism and say it is not about water baptism---you ARE then trying to talk people out of the truth. You don't understand the scriptures. You ask me "will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation?" A PERSON WHO ALREADY BELIEVES GETS WATER BAPTIZED. UNBELIEVERS DON'T GET BAPTIZED. You said "I never said don't be baptized" and then you said "but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit"! We are commanded to be baptized! It is a pledge of a good conscience! You say "or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation?" I praise God for revealing the truth to me about water baptism. I pray that you will stop believing that THOSE SCRIPTURES WE DISCUSSED DON'T TALK ABOUT WATER BAPTISM. You STILL haven't acknowledged your error in 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.

It seems you want to argue. Your first 3 statements are manufactured strawmen arguments. Like I said in the first place, we dont speak the same language
But your reply to my decline to respond seemed genuine in wanting to have a dialog. It's completely clear you don't, your looking for someone to beat on with a different opinion than yours. There are several others here that share the same attributes as you, the conversations consist of repeating myself simply because they continually misinterpret my statements. My time is spent defending myself from false accusations. I can't help but think the same thing happens when you read anything, including scripture. Good by. Pr 20:5 Pr 20:3 Pr 9:7-8
 

Anastacia

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Oct 23, 2010
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It seems you want to argue. Your first 3 statements are manufactured strawmen arguments. Like I said in the first place, we dont speak the same language
But your reply to my decline to respond seemed genuine in wanting to have a dialog. It's completely clear you don't, your looking for someone to beat on with a different opinion than yours. There are several others here that share the same attributes as you, the conversations consist of repeating myself simply because they continually misinterpret my statements. My time is spent defending myself from false accusations. I can't help but think the same thing happens when you read anything, including scripture. Good by. Pr 20:5 Pr 20:3 Pr 9:7-8


Where do you get off coming to a debate site and saying "it seems you want to argue"? You've got to be kidding. And no, that is your false tactic to say I have manufactured strawmen arguments. I guess since you can't defend your false beliefs with the Holy Scriptures...you then need to attack me personally. It is a typical tactic that I've seen many times. And then you cry that you have been defending youself against false personal attacks! You really do have a problem seeing clearly here.

You will have to answer for it one day that you are telling people water baptism is not spoken of in the scriptures that they are spoken of in. It's more serious than you seem to be able to grasp. Now stop with the creepy personal attacks on me, and your trying to use scripture to insult me. You are guilty of every false thing you falsely accuse me of.

You still can't admit that 1 Corithians 1:1-2 and 1 Peter 3:21 is about actual water....why can't you? What is holding you from speaking the truth about it? Tell us. If you can admit that the scriptures are talking about actual water....then you will have to admit your false doctrine.

Now do not come back with personal attacks on me. I'm speaking of the scriptures. Speak only to me about the scriptures. If you can.
 

Anastacia

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2 Tim 3:5-7


Bud02, Like Jesus says....you are guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse me of. And that scripture you give for me, it perfectly describes what you are doing. You are trying to worm you false doctrine into gullible people. Now shoo.



2 Timothy 3:5-7 (New International Version)


[sup]5[/sup] having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. [sup]6[/sup] They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, [sup]7[/sup] always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

Selene

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I was wondering what people believe about Baptism. Is is necessary for salvation? Or can one be saved without being baptized? Please use the Bible to back up your belief.

Hello Humbleman,

The fact that Jesus was baptized in both water and spirit show that we must also be baptized in both water and spirit because we believe that Jesus is the Way. Since we believe that He is truely the Way, then we should imitate Him in His footsteps. He is the role model and the example that we should follow.

In Christ,
Selene
 

bud02

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Please don't make the mistake in believing that you receive the Holy Spirit at the time you decide you need to be water baptized there is no scripture that supports this notion.

If you discern what I have been saying from the beginning I'm more concerned with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Will you be risen with Christ with only a water baptism? no. Why? simply because you can go to any church and have someone baptize you
Will you be risen with only a Holy Spirit baptism? yes. Why? because it is the seal of our redemption from God. Eph 1:13-14

Its impossible to speak of one without mention of the other, I'm concerned with people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

And as I said before.

Mt 3:14-15
Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God.
Rom 3:20
 

Selene

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If you discern what I have been saying from the beginning I'm more concerned with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Will you be risen with Christ with only a water baptism no. Why? simply because you can go any church and have someone baptize you
Will you be risen with only a Holy Spirit baptism yes. Why? because it is the seal of our redemption from God. Eph 1:13-14

Hello Bud,

Actually, it has to be both water and spirit. St. Peter said that water baptism also saves you (1 Peter 3:20-21). Water baptism did not come from man. It came from God (Mark 11:30 and John 1:33). Christ said that one must be born of "water and spirit" to enter the kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5). When Christ spoke those words to Nicodemus, He was referring to baptism - the same kind of baptism that Jesus underwent in the Jordan River. As you read in the Bible, when Christ was baptized by St. John the baptist, He was baptized in both water and spirit. He rose out from the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him declaring "this is my Son, whom I am well pleased."

In Christ,
Selene
 

bud02

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Hello Bud,

Actually, it has to be both water and spirit. St. Peter said that water baptism also saves you (1 Peter 3:20-21). Water baptism did not come from man. It came from God (Mark 11:30 and John 1:33). Christ said that one must be born of "water and spirit" to enter the kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5). When Christ spoke those words to Nicodemus, He was referring to baptism - the same kind of baptism that Jesus underwent in the Jordan River. As you read in the Bible, when Christ was baptized by St. John the baptist, He was baptized in both water and spirit. He rose out from the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him declaring "this is my Son, whom I am well pleased."

In Christ,
Selene

You are of the Catholic faith so are these also a necessary work for salvation as well? The other 6 sacraments?
I just want to know how long the list is
Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion, Confession, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sick
 

Selene

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You are of the Catholic faith so are these also a necessary work for salvation as well? The other 6 sacraments?
I just want to know how long the list is
Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion, Confession, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sick

Water baptism came from God. It never came from man. Anything that comes from God is not considered "works." Jesus asked this question to the Pharisees:

Mark 11:30
The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or from men? Answer me.

We know the answer to Jesus' question because the Bible has the answer.

John 1:33 And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptize with water, said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Spirit.

Scripture clearly says that it was God who sent St. John the Baptist to baptize with water. It never came from man. Water baptism came directly from Heaven. It was ordered by God and nowhere in the Bible did it say that God rescinded water baptism. The Bible shows that a baptism of both water and spirit are required (See Acts 10:44-48 and Acts 19:3-6).

Acts 10:44-48 While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word. And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished, for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also. For they heard them speaking with tongues, and magnifying God. Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit, as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then they desired him to tarry with them some days.

As you can see from Sacred Scripture, the Holy Spirit fell on the pagans as St. Peter was speaking the Gospel to them. They were baptized with the Holy Spirit FIRST as they listen to God's word. Recognizing that the Holy Spirit was also in them, St. Peter then had them baptized with water. Sacred Scripture also shows that those who were baptized with water also needed to be baptized with the Holy Spirit through the "laying or imposition of hands." An Apostle baptizes a person with the Holy Spirit through the "laying or imposition of hands." (See Acts 19:3-6 and Acts 8:18)

Acts 19:3-6 And he said: In what then were you baptized? Who said: In John's baptism. Then Paul said: John baptized the people with the baptism of penance, saying: That they should believe in him who was to come after him, that is to say, in Jesus. Having heard these things, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.


Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw, that by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,

You are correct that baptism is a sacrament for us, but it has nothing to do with works. Why? Because anything that is ordered from God or comes from God is not considered "works by salvation." The Bible says that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Because He is the WAY, we follow in His footsteps and imitate Him. Jesus was baptized in both water and spirit in the Jordan River. He is our role model and our example to follow because He is the WAY to salvation. Therefore, since Jesus Christ was baptized with water and spirit, then we do the same thing. We also baptize with water and spirit by the "laying of hands." As you can see, the Apostles also followed Christ's example of baptizing with both water and spirit, so we also do the same thing.

If you put my faith down simply because of water baptism, just remember that Christ Himself was baptized with water. If you put down people who use water baptism, what do you have to say about Jesus who was also baptized with water and who allowed His disciples to baptize with water (John 4:1)? Are you going to say that Jesus was wrong in being baptize with water and allowing His disciples to baptize with water? Are you going to say that God was wrong to order St. John the Baptist to baptize with water? As the Bible clearly shows, water baptism was not an invention coming from man. It came directly from God and therefore not considered "works by salvation." Thus, if you are going to tell people that they are wrong to use water baptism, then you also need to tell Jesus that He was wrong to allow Himself to be baptized with water and in allowing His disciples to baptize with water. God bless. :)

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In Christ,
Selene