Is belief in the Trinity necessary for salvation?
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OzSpen
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CI,
The true God revealed in Scripture is Trinitarian. Any other view repesents another god.
'In the beginning God (plural) created the heavens & the earth' (Gen 1:1).
Oz
I just think there's some leeway there. I don't think on it all that much but my mind doesn't seperate them out. I think of the Holy Spirit as God and I think of Jesus as God. Sometimes when I pray, I say Jesus, or Lord, or Father.
Some say this makes me a modalist, dunno.
But I get more concerned if someone says Jesus is not God than I do if someone says they just honestly don't think about the trinity doctrine and its just God to them., not seperated out in any exact and precise way.
But your question was do I think a man has to rigidly think of God in the exact way of the trinity doctrine in order to receive the Holy Spirit? No, I don't.
Some say this makes me a modalist, dunno.
But I get more concerned if someone says Jesus is not God than I do if someone says they just honestly don't think about the trinity doctrine and its just God to them., not seperated out in any exact and precise way.
But your question was do I think a man has to rigidly think of God in the exact way of the trinity doctrine in order to receive the Holy Spirit? No, I don't.
Helen
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Father, Son and Holy Spirit are deeply present in the New Testament, especially in John's Gospel, John's First Epistle, Romans 8, etc.
And errors And wrong thoughts about God are deeply present in everyone here. God does not reject a man because his knowledge is imperfect. MEN do that. Not God.
The imperfect rejecting the imperfect. You can't MAKE this stuff up!
We do need to be careful not to reject clear revelation. This is a good, cautious and reverential spirit to follow.And errors And wrong thoughts about God are deeply present in everyone here. God does not reject a man because his knowledge is imperfect. MEN do that. Not God.
The imperfect rejecting the imperfect. You can't MAKE this stuff up!
"..if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." (John 8.24)
All that God wants from you is perfection? No. All that God wants from you is trust.
Tell us what we must do to be saved. You must be without any doctrinal error to be saved. Sound right? Sound like the gospel you heard? Or does it sound like a different gospel?
Tell us what we must do to be saved. You must be without any doctrinal error to be saved. Sound right? Sound like the gospel you heard? Or does it sound like a different gospel?
We do need to be careful not to take the doctrine we've been taught and look for everyone who differs slightly from it and say we think they don't have the Holy Spirit or the salvation of God. This is a good, cautious and reverential spirit to follow. (And humble.)
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Helen
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You are ‘on a roll’ tonight.
If doctrine could save us there would have been no need at all for Jesus to die on the cross!!
But, perfect doctrine is what some here tell us ‘saves us’ from Hell.
The same as some teach that a prefect walk saves us from Hell !!
Again, if that were truth...why did Jesus die!!!
Our first focus must be Godward and Scriptural; within that framework, we then witness.
You are ‘on a roll’ tonight.
If doctrine could save us there would have been no need at all for Jesus to die on the cross!!
But, perfect doctrine is what some here tell us ‘saves us’ from Hell.
The same as some teach that a prefect walk saves us from Hell !!
Again, if that were truth...why did Jesus die!!!
As our friend epi says, righteousness is a moving target.
A parent is pleased with a newborn about things they would in no way be pleased about were he to still be doing them at 3 years of age. The thing that will please the parent is a moving target.
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Our first focus must be to trust God.
Our second focus must be to trust God.
We are in a race of trust.
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"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." Jesus Christ (John 14:15)
"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me." Jesus Christ (John 14:23-24)
"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." Jesus Christ (John 12:48)
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven [will enter]. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and [yet] it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell - and great was its fall." Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:21-27)
God incarnate, Jesus Christ, expresses the love, authority, importance, relevance, and impact of Lord Jesus' words!
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jesus Christ (John 3:3)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Jesus Christ (John 3:5-8)
God incarnate, Jesus Christ, expresses that a person MUST be born of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God!
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." Jesus Christ (John 6:29)
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
When the disciples heard [this], they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
And looking at [them] Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
(Matthew 19:23-26)
God incarnate, Jesus Christ, expresses a person faith/belief in Jesus whom the Father has sent is a work of God!
"I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged." Jesus Christ (John 16:7-11)
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; [that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." Jesus Christ (John 14:16-18)
God incarnate, Jesus Christ, expresses the ourpouring of God's Holy Spirit in us believers!
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." Jesus Christ (John 3:21)
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:15-20)
God incarnate, Jesus Christ, expresses that we believers exhibit fruit of the Spirit of God (not fruit of man), the fruit is consistent with the words of Lord Jesus the Anointed!
In all of this, Lord Jesus Christ expresses
A) "He" for the Father (John 14:16)
B) "He" for the Holy Spirit (John 16:8)
C) "Me" for the Son (John 14:5)
Lord Jesus decisively declared "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30); therefore, three eternal persons are revealed in One Holy God! To not believe what Lord Jesus says is to deny the Lord Jesus which carries eternal consequence of damnation (Matthew 7:21-27)! To deceive others with teachings contrary to Lord Jesus' words carries eternal consequences, too!
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