Is Faith Healing Really from God?

[Aunty Jane]

Imagine that you are among a crowd of people who have just witnessed a severely paralyzed man being healed before their very eyes. The healer told the man: “Get up and pick up your bed and be on your way home.” And the man did just that! He was no longer paralyzed! No wonder that those present “began to glorify God”! (Luke 5:18-26) This cure, performed by Jesus Christ almost 2,000 years ago, very clearly had God’s approval.

What about today? Is miraculous healing still a reliable cure and evidence of the actions of God's spirit for those who can find no medical solution to their illness or infirmity? Jesus and his disciples performed healing miracles....no doubt about it.....

Matthew 10:1, 5-8....
“So he [Jesus] summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. . .
These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.”

Faith healers today claim to imitate them.....can they?
Do we understand why Jesus performed miracles and gave his disciples the same power of holy spirit to perform them too? Do we understand the connection between preaching about "the Kingdom of the Heavens" and the miracles that took place?

What role does "faith" play in these healings?

Do modern day "healings" mirror those of the first century? If so, how? If not why not?
What about the failures? Whose fault is that?

Why do we not see the 'raising of the dead', since this was given to the first century disciples as well? It is supposed to be the same "holy spirit" that is responsible for these modern day miracles, so why is it lacking?

What are your thoughts?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Imagine that you are among a crowd of people who have just witnessed a severely paralyzed man being healed before their very eyes. The healer told the man: “Get up and pick up your bed and be on your way home.” And the man did just that! He was no longer paralyzed! No wonder that those present “began to glorify God”! (Luke 5:18-26) This cure, performed by Jesus Christ almost 2,000 years ago, very clearly had God’s approval.

What about today? Is miraculous healing still a reliable cure and evidence of the actions of God's spirit for those who can find no medical solution to their illness or infirmity? Jesus and his disciples performed healing miracles....no doubt about it.....

Matthew 10:1, 5-8....
“So he [Jesus] summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. . .
These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.”

Faith healers today claim to imitate them.....can they?
Do we understand why Jesus performed miracles and gave his disciples the same power of holy spirit to perform them too? Do we understand the connection between preaching about "the Kingdom of the Heavens" and the miracles that took place?

What role does "faith" play in these healings?

Do modern day "healings" mirror those of the first century? If so, how? If not why not?
What about the failures? Whose fault is that?

Why do we not see the 'raising of the dead', since this was given to the first century disciples as well? It is supposed to be the same "holy spirit" that is responsible for these modern day miracles, so why is it lacking?

What are your thoughts?

Only born again Christians have the authority to heal, Mark 16:16-18, and that means every born again believer.

Today, not every believer in Jesus has been freed from sin, the first sign of being born again. Sinners do not have the authority of God abiding in them. That is the main reason.

 

[Carl Emerson]

James 5:16
New American Standard Bible 1995

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Only born again Christians have the authority to heal, Mark 16:16-18, and that means every born again believer.

Today, not every believer in Jesus has been freed from sin, the first sign of being born again. Sinners do not have the authority of God abiding in them. That is the main reason.

Verses in Mark 16 after verse 8 are considered later additions, not found in earlier manuscripts.
So I do not believe that we can base our faith on spurious verses.

What does it mean to be "born again" in your opinion?
How are some "born again" whilst others are not?
Can there be Christians who are not “born again”?

 

[Aunty Jane]

James 5:16
New American Standard Bible 1995

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

The whole point of the OP was today’s miracles. In the first century when James 5:16 was written, the gifts were still in evidence. James’ comment above however, is related to committing sins and confessing them, so apparently the healing here is spiritual. Prayers of that nature are still said.

But Paul indicated that the miracles would cease and make way for a more mature approach since he said that it was basically ‘childish’ to base your faith on external things. The full grown man was not to rely on what is seen, to furnish his faith. (1 Corinthians 13:8, 11; 2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

[JohnPaul]

Imagine that you are among a crowd of people who have just witnessed a severely paralyzed man being healed before their very eyes. The healer told the man: “Get up and pick up your bed and be on your way home.” And the man did just that! He was no longer paralyzed! No wonder that those present “began to glorify God”! (Luke 5:18-26) This cure, performed by Jesus Christ almost 2,000 years ago, very clearly had God’s approval.

What about today? Is miraculous healing still a reliable cure and evidence of the actions of God's spirit for those who can find no medical solution to their illness or infirmity? Jesus and his disciples performed healing miracles....no doubt about it.....

Matthew 10:1, 5-8....
“So he [Jesus] summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. . .
These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.”

Faith healers today claim to imitate them.....can they?
Do we understand why Jesus performed miracles and gave his disciples the same power of holy spirit to perform them too? Do we understand the connection between preaching about "the Kingdom of the Heavens" and the miracles that took place?

What role does "faith" play in these healings?

Do modern day "healings" mirror those of the first century? If so, how? If not why not?
What about the failures? Whose fault is that?

Why do we not see the 'raising of the dead', since this was given to the first century disciples as well? It is supposed to be the same "holy spirit" that is responsible for these modern day miracles, so why is it lacking?

What are your thoughts?

I think they are cons and charlatans and it's all staged to get people to believe and more money in their pockets, Jim Jones was a great example, hence the term drinking the Koolaide.

 

[JohnPaul]

Only born again Christians have the authority to heal, Mark 16:16-18, and that means every born again believer.

Today, not every believer in Jesus has been freed from sin, the first sign of being born again. Sinners do not have the authority of God abiding in them. That is the main reason.

Born again? I have never stopped believing so I never needed to be born again, only God Jehovah and his only begotten son Jesus Christ have the power to heal and perform miracles, not some shady preachers who claim to do so.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think they are cons and it's all staged to get people to believe and more money in their pockets, Jim Jones was a great example, hence the term drinking the Koolaide.

Those who are sincere are not evil people...they are deceived into believing that they are truly gifted by God to heal people....but there are only two sources of power in this world....Jehovah and the devil. God will never prevent us from believing what we want to believe.

God eventually withdrew the miracles (which died out with the apostles) because they had accomplished their goal....to show the people that God was backing his Messiah....and giving them a first hand demonstration of what life would be like in the new world to come under Christ's rulership. (Revelation 21:3-4)

The apostles were the only ones who could pass on the gifts. That demonstration of God’s power was seen by thousands of people in the first century, and the legacy of their experience is retained in the NT scriptures for us all to read. But the modern day healers are a different story.
Some are absolute charlatans, no doubt about that....but others are completely deceived, thinking that “the angel of light” is God....that is most definitely a con, but the victims are the healers as well as the healed IMO.

When Jesus comes as judge, look at what they will say to him to defend themselves....
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"

Do you see what they were doing to claim that they were Christ's followers?..."did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" What does Jesus say next? "then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness."

Miracles and exorcisms are not a proof of God's holy spirit in this time period.....so they must come from God's enemy, since these ones are accused of the 'practice of lawlessness'. Whose laws are they breaking? It has to be God's laws.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Those who are sincere are not evil people...they are deceived into believing that they are truly gifted by God to heal people....but there are only two sources of power in this world....Jehovah and the devil. God will never prevent us from believing what we want to believe.

God eventually withdrew the miracles (which died out with the apostles) because they had accomplished their goal....to show the people that God was backing his Messiah....and giving them a first hand demonstration of what life would be like in the new world to come under Christ's rulership. (Revelation 21:3-4)

The apostles were the only ones who could pass on the gifts. That demonstration of God’s power was seen by thousands of people in the first century, and the legacy of their experience is retained in the NT scriptures for us all to read. But the modern day healers are a different story.
Some are absolute charlatans, no doubt about that....but others are completely deceived, thinking that “the angel of light” is God....that is most definitely a con, but the victims are the healers as well as the healed IMO.

When Jesus comes as judge, look at what they will say to him to defend themselves....
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"

Do you see what they were doing to claim that they were Christ's followers?..."did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" What does Jesus say next? "then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness."

Miracles and exorcisms are not a proof of God's holy spirit in this time period.....so they must come from God's enemy, since these ones are accused of the 'practice of lawlessness'. Whose laws are they breaking? It has to be God's laws.

Do you appreciate that if you are wrong, you attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan...

I seem to recall this is a very serious sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Imagine that you are among a crowd of people who have just witnessed a severely paralyzed man being healed before their very eyes. The healer told the man: “Get up and pick up your bed and be on your way home.” And the man did just that! He was no longer paralyzed! No wonder that those present “began to glorify God”! (Luke 5:18-26) This cure, performed by Jesus Christ almost 2,000 years ago, very clearly had God’s approval.

What about today? Is miraculous healing still a reliable cure and evidence of the actions of God's spirit for those who can find no medical solution to their illness or infirmity? Jesus and his disciples performed healing miracles....no doubt about it.....

Matthew 10:1, 5-8....
“So he [Jesus] summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, in order to expel these and to cure every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. . .
These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.”

Faith healers today claim to imitate them.....can they?
Do we understand why Jesus performed miracles and gave his disciples the same power of holy spirit to perform them too? Do we understand the connection between preaching about "the Kingdom of the Heavens" and the miracles that took place?

What role does "faith" play in these healings?

Do modern day "healings" mirror those of the first century? If so, how? If not why not?
What about the failures? Whose fault is that?

Why do we not see the 'raising of the dead', since this was given to the first century disciples as well? It is supposed to be the same "holy spirit" that is responsible for these modern day miracles, so why is it lacking?

What are your thoughts?

It's a good question. I happen to think the Master had to demonstrate he was the Messiah. And so, he reached out to Israel in its worst condition, offering healing and restoration while they were being punished for their sins.

It was no different for him in sending out his apostles. They represented him in the time of his Messianic revelation. They performed many miracles of restoration in his name.

But after Messiah was rejected by Israel and went to heaven, what remained was the Gospel of the Kingdom. It undoubtedly still contains the gifts of healing, but it has never been at the level that it was displayed in the time of Christ. Faith Healers have claimed they had that power, and sometimes have claimed it was actually happening at that level. But it really wasn't.

I don't doubt that some miracles take place at Faith Healing meetings. I just think they are over-hyped. And I reject Faith Doctrine, which claims Healing is virtually "On Demand," if we just have enough faith. Healing is the domain of God, and not just our faith. If we are to have faith at all, it is faith in God's word and faith in His will.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Verses in Mark 16 after verse 8 are considered later additions, not found in earlier manuscripts.
So I do not believe that we can base our faith on spurious verses.

What does it mean to be "born again" in your opinion?
How are some "born again" whilst others are not?
Can there be Christians who are not “born again”?

And exactly when were those verses added. What date were they added? And who considered them to be later additions? An unbelieving cessationist? Be careful what rumors you trust, and by whom. By their fruits you shall know them.

Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:8-9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Matthew 7:21-23
1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[JohnPaul]

And exactly when were those verses added. What date were they added? And who considered them to be later additions? An unbelieving cessationist? Be careful what rumors you trust, and by whom. By their fruits you shall know them.

Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:8-9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Matthew 7:21-23
1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I’m not born again as I never stopped believing since I was taught which was from a very young age and I still sin, it’s human nature.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I’m not born again as I never stopped believing since I was taught which was from a very young age and I still sin, it’s human nature.

There are two types of sin. Willful lawless, and unintentional sins of immature fruit of the Spirit. Which are yours? 1 John 3:9 is referring to 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness.

It is the difference between sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.

 

[JohnPaul]

There are two types of sin. Willful lawless, and unintentional sins of immature fruit of the Spirit. Which are yours? 1 John 3:9 is referring to 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness.

It is the difference between sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.

Unintentional sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I’m not born again as I never stopped believing since I was taught which was from a very young age and I still sin, it’s human nature.

Interesting. I don't know you from Adam, but I've said similar things, though not precisely in those words. I was raised as an infant in Christianity, and never had a "conversion" experience. However, I would not say I'm not "born again."

At some point in my life, however, I began to wander off to mix with the world, and felt terribly guilty about it, particularly as I got ever deeper into complicity with its sin. That ultimately drove me back to Christ, where I came to realize that there was a deeper experience with God that I had not yet fully explored.

Another way to express this has been with my doctrine of water baptism. I feel like water baptism was given only for those who had been walking in sin, and did not know God at all. Those of us raised up in the faith really had no need for water baptism, but only for being dedicated through some ritual of water baptism.

Our parents promised, before God, to raise us up in the teaching of Christ. In time we would awaken to faith at some point.

 

[lforrest]

I should think the #1 priority of those seriously seeking God would be to receive the Holy Spirit. Which means being born again. It's supposed to be easy and from my experience it took less than an hour.

1. Hear the word (I heard from my preacher during a sermon, which was a miricle in itself as my pre-teen attention span was non-existent)
2. Be convicted of my sins (all have sinned, Holy Spirit visits to make me know that I also sin)
3. Believe the word about Jesus Christ. (How he died and took our sins upon himself)
4. Repent of my sins (didn't know this either, just felt remorse and was like sure I never want to sin again)
5. Give my life to Jesus (Also didn't even know what this meant, just had a general feeling of devotion)
6. Pray and ask for the Holy Spirit, (Received the Holy Spirit.)
7. Be water baptized. (Was very worried and wanted to cross this T, took a few months to get it done)

That is how I was born again as a child like 30 Some years ago. Looking back It seems to have been consistent with the biblical process.

As for healing, I believe God still heals, and have been disappointed when he doesn't do so in this life. Other times he heals miraculously.
We used to have a mod Biggandy whom God gave a new liver.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I should think the #1 priority of those seriously seeking God would be to receive the Holy Spirit. Which means being born again. It's supposed to be easy and from my experience it took less than an hour.

Receiving the Spirit in the Born Again experience is not, I think, a mechanical process controlled by Man. It begins with Preaching, as inspired by God. In other words, God reaches out to us through the means He chooses to use, through the instrumentation He opts to use.

When we sense the pull of the Spirit, we either respond or not. I've seen some respond half-heartedly, only to yield up the experience to return to the "world." Their experience was aborted.

I've also seen those whose spiritual experience was aborted later have God call out to them again, this time to fully receive God's Spirit. But any time someone wishes to convert, God must reach out to them spiritually first. Otherwise, what are they converting to?

There is not really a period of waiting to receive the Spirit, in my estimation, although that was true on the Day of Pentecost. They were told to wait until God moved among them.

But since the Spirit has already been given to the Church, all we need do is exercise our ministry gift, and reach out to others if so led. Then a person may *immediately* respond, and not wait for anything.

God moves on people spiritually at His whim, and not ours. We may *think* we're getting "prayed up," or "praised up." But in reality, it is when God moves upon us that we can respond. He leads, and we follow.

In a sense, we are already called to be always in the Spirit. But still, there are specific movings of God and leadings of God in which God guides us along so that we are inspired by Him and thus work together with Him.

So a born again person need not *wait* to receive the Spirit. He simply needs to obey God and so be in a position to be led by Him. Then he may experience the Spirit always, and be specifically led at times.

Neither does a prospective convert need to *wait* to receive Rebirth and Spirit Baptism. If he is convicted by the Spirit all he or she needs to do is respond.

Experiencing spiritual moves of God in our lives is controlled completely by God. The only thing we can do is remain in a position of obedience so that we can hear God's word in our heart.

Healing is the same. We can always pray. But often, God leads us in our prayers. Otherwise we can just pray and let God determine if He wishes to heal us or not.

I think it's a good thing to lay all of our burdens on the Lord, and then just leave them there. God wants us, I think, just to show this kind of trust in Him, regardless of how He responds to our wishes.

He is *always* good. His choices may not appear to be good, but when we trust our concerns to Him, He takes up those concerns and is impressed by our willingness to endure whatever He calls upon us to endure.

 

[lforrest]

Receiving the Spirit in the Born Again experience is not, I think, a mechanical process controlled by Man. It begins with Preaching, as inspired by God. In other words, God reaches out to us through the means He chooses to use, through the instrumentation He opts to use.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 The father draws people to Jesus. John 6:44.
So yes the Father chooses who to give to the son. The words about Jesus are then preached to people and these ones are receptive to the word.

 

[lforrest]

There is not really a period of waiting to receive the Spirit, in my estimation, although that was true on the Day of Pentecost. They were told to wait until God moved among them.

it's a nice thought, about some sort of corporate dispensation of the Holy Spirit to the Church. But the most I'm aware of is a visitation. The Indwelling Spirit is for individual believers. It is the reason we are equipped with internal temples. The Holy Spirit will never again dwell in a temple made by human hands.

 

[lforrest]

There is not really a period of waiting to receive the Spirit, in my estimation, although that was true on the Day of Pentecost. They were told to wait until God moved among them.

Jesus said to be born again, so that is what people should be taught. It shouldn't be surprising that the natural mind doesn't desire the things of the Spirit. Which is why the fear of God should be leveraged to get people to take the first step. So they can have the benefit of the Spirit's teaching to lead them fully into God's will.