Is Faith in Jesus Faith to Keep the Law?

[marks]

When we are born again, is it so that we will now be able to keep the Mosaic Covenant? The 10 Commandments?

This is how I answer.

Romans 7:1-4
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

According to James, the Law is a single unit. If you break one law, you are a law breaker. Paul speaks of the law that includes coveting (vs. 7) which is included in the 10 commandments. Either way, this includes the 10 commandments.

The married woman is bound by the law of marriage to her husband, but if he be dead, she is loosed from that law. She no longer has to keep it. He's dead. She's free. Even if she were to try to return to the law of marriage, it would just be a horror story because he's dead. There won't be any resemblence of any kind to the previously existing marraige because he is dead. A corpse. You don't get up in the morning and have coffee with a corpse.

That marriage no longer exists. He is dead. She is loosed.

So in the same way, we are dead to the law, including the 10 commandments. Being joined to Christ has made us free from the law previously given. Even if we were to try to have some relationship with the law now, it is just as unseemly as trying to be married to a corpse. It won't be what was. Marriage was never meant to survive the death of the spouse.

And in fact, the comparison gets worse. Being joined to Jesus and seeking a return to the law would be like being married, but insisting on propping up the corpse of husband #1 with his cup of coffee also.

At least, if we use the example God gave, that's what it looks like.

Is this how Paul lived? Absolutely.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 “For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Paul felt perfectly free to live as those without law. This did not make him “lawless”, an accusation that's been made against me as well. Under the Law of Christ.

Go ahead. Say it. “The 'Law of Christ' is just another name for the 10 commandments.”

But my question for you is this. How can that be, considering God's example of marriage?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Windmillcharge]

How can that be, considering God's example of marriage?

We do not live to obey the law in order to earn our salvation instead we show our love for Jesus by our obedience and voluntary compliance with the law.

The law tells us how to live as David wrote in the psalms Gopds law is a lamp for his feet, showing him hw to walk in Godlyness.

 

[marks]

1 Timothy 1:5-11
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Is the law then for you?

Much love!
mark

 

[101G]

Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:15 "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:18 "For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

so it's not about a death or a rebirth, but the belif in that death and rebirth, this belief is the LAW of "FAITH".

this is all in the SEED which is CHRIST. 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers".

"Knowing this?" this is something that we all should know.

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

Go ahead. Say it. “The 'Law of Christ' is just another name for the 10 commandments.”

Absolutely. But you need to distinguish between the Mosaic Covenant (the Old Covenant) and the Ten Commandments (which are also within the New Covenant).

The Old Covenant had various groups of laws for a total of 613, but only the Ten Commandments are immutable. They are God's moral and spiritual standards. And those who are regenerated are also enabled by the Holy Spirit to obey the spirit and the letter of the Ten Commandments through the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love (Agape).

But the question in the title of this thread is something else altogether. Faith in Christ means (1) believing without the shadow of a doubt that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed who He is as revealed in Scripture (the Savior of the world), and (2) believing without the shadow of a doubt that His finished work of redemption in His death, burial, resurrection is necessary and sufficient in order to be saved. Therefore repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ are two sides of the same coin (Acts 20:21). Which leads to calling upon the Name of the Lord, and receiving Him as both Lord and Savior.Romans 10 gives the complete picture.

 

[brakelite]

In the OT the sanctuary service, along with the priesthood, the feast days, and sacrifices etc, were given to Israel for one primary reason...to reveal to those who were awake, the gospel. The entire yearly service, from the first feast day to the last, was a pictorial presentation of the gospel...a shadow and type of the ministry of Christ.
Starting at the altar of sacrifice, and finishing with the priest exiting the temple/sanctuary on Yom Kippur after taking the blood of the goat into the most holy place and "cleansing the sanctuary of al the sins of the children of Israel", every item of furniture, every piece of clothing, every action and word spoken, every sacrifice and prayer offered, was a type of the plan of salvation offered through Christ. All of it essential, and even the smallest item having its significance. More so, is the antitype, the reality, essential to man's salvation. Once that was complete, Israel then celebrated their freedom with the feast of tabernacles.

So I get to wondering. I ask, if every single action was so essential to salvation for the Israelite, (for those who made it as far as Yom Kippur but failed in their right attitude at that final yearly event were cut off from Israel) and every single aspect of the antitype essential for the Christian, why is it that so many Christians believe the sacrifice at Calvary, the equivalent to the altar of sacrifice in the OT, is sufficient for salvation? If the Israelite could not ignore or think the priest's carrying of the blood into the sanctuary was unimportant to his salvation, why does the Christian think that all he has to do is accept Calvary, calling that one single event "Christ's finished work" and claim faith in that is sufficient...completely ignoring or just giving lip service to the resurrection and even more so the mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary where Christ presented His blood before the throne of the Most High? Can we ignore the final day antitype of Yom Kippur and continue to believe we will not be cut off from the spiritual house of Israel?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Not strange at all is it that so many guilty Christians believe running will get them away from the All=One Law of God instead of believing the Holy Spirit "convinces of SIN and Judgement" over every word spoken in unbelief against Him in self-justification and righteousness.

 

[Willie T]

All that extra typing, and *WindMillCharge* said it all in his succinct post.

 

[brakelite]

voluntary compliance with the law.

All that extra typing, and *WindMillCharge* said it all in her succinct post.

That term "voluntary compliance" is well expressed. It is the totality of true Christian experience. It is surrender to the Spirit of God who changes our mindsets and hearts that we love to obey, and obey to love. Which is why I observe the Sabbath. It has become a beloved appointment that I keep every day to be with my Saviour...He has placed a blessing on that day that no other day possesses. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

 

[Windmillcharge]

All that extra typing, and *WindMillCharge* said it all in her succinct post.

Get the gender correct.

 

[Willie T]

Get the gender correct.

Sorry. That may be why some of us post our pictures in the avatar.

 

[marks]

I appreciate your responses! A few questions if I may . . .

On what basis do we separate the 10 commandments from the remainder of the commandments?

What gives us the authority to regard some of God's commandments, and disregard others?

And why has no one addressed the example of our relationship the Law from marriage shown in Romans 7?

Thank you!
Much love!
Mark

 

[mjrhealth]

We do not live to obey the law in order to earn our salvation instead we show our love for Jesus by our obedience and voluntary compliance with the law.

The law tells us how to live as David wrote in the psalms Gopds law is a lamp for his feet, showing him hw to walk in Godlyness.

And Jesus said,

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

and again

Luk 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

no one keeps the law not one.

oh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

If a man has not love, the law is just an excuse to boast as many do.

 

[brakelite]

On what basis do we separate the 10 commandments from the remainder of the commandments?

We don't separate anything. God did. He first gave the tables of stone on which He wrote with His own finger His law. Then after Israel miserably failed to honour that very law through idolatrous partying before the golden calf, then God told Moses to write laws, and codes of conduct because the first law was broken.
Gal.3:19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Moses' law was given primarily as the remedy for sin. Of course it also included counsel on diet, and various civil laws that pertained to the nation as a political entity. But the law that Moses wrote himself on paper and placed beside the ark of the covenant (as opposed to inside the ark such as were the tables of stone) dealt primarily with religious rituals, types, shadows, and observances all of which pointed to Christ. It was the gospel (among other things) to Israel. So two distinct and separate laws...two distinct and separate purposes. God's law...a reflection or written transcript of righteousness and holiness; Moses law...the means by which to attain to living in harmony with those laws. Did Israel succeed in accomplishing that? No. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;....the stumbling stone today has shifted somewhat...Christianity today throws the law aside and claims it is impossible to obey, making God out to be a ruthless despot giving laws that are impossible to keep, and punishing those who cannot. But they misrepresent the character of God. To those who have faith, those commandments become promises. The Father gave His own Son that those who trust in Him may be granted, by grace through faith, the power to obey those laws...both in the letter AND in the spirit.

What gives us the authority to regard some of God's commandments, and disregard others?

See above. It has nothing to do with us, or some imagined authority. It is all of God. From start to finish.

And why has no one addressed the example of our relationship the Law from marriage shown in Romans 7?

Who died? The old man. Who is the woman? The church. Who is she now married to? The Son. Which law is she dead to? The law which bound her to her first husband. What happened to the law? Nothing. It still lives. The only thing that passed away was the old man. We are now new creatures in Christ and by the grace and power of God who is sanctifying and imputing and imparting His righteousness to us, "He gives us power to become children of God."

If a man has not love, the law is just an excuse to boast as many do.

If the law is cast aside as being of no relevance and deemed a burden impossible to obey..."love" is just an excuse to boast as many do. They forget that what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3,4

 

[mjrhealth]

If the law is cast aside as being of no relevance and deemed a burden impossible to obey..."love" is just an excuse to boast as many do. They forget that what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3,4

exactly not after the flesh, that is why there is no requirements to keep it as you do, because no man can, not you not @Phoneman777 not any one any God is under no obligation to help you keep it so you can boast. this bit

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thats where you all stumble, the works bit.

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Because it adds not one dot to anymans salvation not one.

Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So all your works

Isa_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

And still you wont leave your religion for Christ., will you...

 

[brakelite]

exactly not after the flesh, that is why there is no requirements to keep it as you do, because no man can,

The carnal man cannot obey the law of God, for it is enmity to him. But we are not of the flesh, but of the spirit. Prove to me that a spiritual man cannot obey God's laws. Prove to me that a man, believing in God's promises, (thou shalt not steal eg) cannot do so.

 

[mjrhealth]

The carnal man cannot obey the law of God, for it is enmity to him. But we are not of the flesh, but of the spirit. Prove to me that a spiritual man cannot obey God's laws. Prove to me that a man, believing in God's promises, (thou shalt not steal eg) cannot do so.

Spiritual men, would not be following men, they would follow Christ because they know His voice and wont follow after stangers. Spiritual men know the law profits nothing because is is by faith we are justified and it is faith that please God, spiritual men have noting to boast of but Jesus Christ for they know there works profit nothing, Spiritual men trust God and the works of Christ to save them by faith, and know by faith they are already saved and justified in Christ..

You dont keep the law, not even the Sabbath, for even that you profane because the law is nit by faith, it is by works, so you never rest, because we rest in Christ from our own, and you have never stopped working.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

all simply unbelief. No matter how many time you look in that mirror all you will ever see is the outside of the cup.

 

[brakelite]

Spiritual men, would not be following men, they would follow Christ because they know His voice and wont follow after stangers. Spiritual men know the law profits nothing because is is by faith we are justified and it is faith that please God, spiritual men have noting to boast of but Jesus Christ for they know there works profit nothing, Spiritual men trust God and the works of Christ to save them by faith, and know by faith they are already saved and justified in Christ..

You dont keep the law, not even the Sabbath, for even that you profane because the law is nit by faith, it is by works, so you never rest, because we rest in Christ from our own, and you have never stopped working.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

all simply unbelief. No matter how many time you look in that mirror all you will ever see is the outside of the cup.

You continue to respond based solely on your own immature understanding of the gospel, and God's purposes for man. You seem to think...no I retract that. You DO THINK that God is incapable ...not powerful enough...not even willing to so change a man so as to make him perfectly obedient to His commandments. You keep accusing us of a lack of faith...in reality it is you who has no faith. You believe God is totally ineffective in establishing His righteousness in anyone. The moment you see someone actually living out His faith. you revert to your default position of charging them of legalism or working their way to heaven. You fail...you refuse to even contemplate the possibility that this is God's doing, and it is marvellous in His eyes. It is to His glory.

 

[mjrhealth]

You continue to respond based solely on your own immature understanding of the gospel, and God's purposes for man. You seem to think...no I retract that. You DO THINK that God is incapable ...not powerful enough...not even willing to so change a man so as to make him perfectly obedient to His commandments. You keep accusing us of a lack of faith...in reality it is you who has no faith. You believe God is totally ineffective in establishing His righteousness in anyone. The moment you see someone actually living out His faith. you revert to your default position of charging them of legalism or working their way to heaven. You fail...you refuse to even contemplate the possibility that this is God's doing, and it is marvellous in His eyes. It is to His glory.

God changes a man a when a man is willing to follow after Him so that he can wear the righteousness of Christ, not by any of His own works but by Faith, because by faith all things are justified, and all you do is seek to justify your works and your religion just as BOL and MM do, in that you are no different, the mother of all harlots and her children having a family dispute. which is the prettiest, all thinking they are His bride but wont be found worthy for they wont come out so they can be washed clean.

 

[mjrhealth]

One for teh lawyers