Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

[grumix8]

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of.
Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Moses who was ordered by God to pray to the rock and water will come out but Moses disobey and changes things and hit the rock. This angered God and told him he will not enter the promise land. Moses change what God said changed the destiny israel had to had an error while using the word of God,
Numbers 20:6-12
we have Huldah who made mistake in prophecy which A king said he was going to die A peaceful death 2 Chronicles 34:28 and then he died by arrows and had horrible mistake 2 Chronicles 35:22-24.

Here linkhttps://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/do-prophets-of-god-make-mistakes-sometimes/

also Elijah who said Acab will die in one place and Acab did not die according to what Elijah said.
1 Kings 22:1-40

This what shows that destiny changed and the lord allowed it happen he can rewind and move it but he did not becuase he has A plan of God.

Still people can change their course in life if mistake happened like those times of moses. We can change our destiny by failure of men and women who with God prophecy was shown here with Moses and Huldah. Not saying you should make the same mistaek as they did for not God's fault even if moses and huldah with words change the future of Israel and changed the destiny God adjusted to show he forgives moses and Huldah and those did happen. Destiny of your life being a poor shoesales man, poor garbageman, and what you see in your future can always change but ask God for it and do not make the mistakes Moses and Huldah did.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

 

[grumix8]

This is the point only God who is creator of good and evil of light and darkness is who moves it all, we were never meant to understand. What would of happen if he would of not put the tree of good and evil and would of never enter this world. We would of being like children still with our envelope of innocence and be in front ogf God protected by him ?


Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eatena nd alter remove by God ?





But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us. The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?




No, this why it is better that inside this world we live we can live in many possibilities and be saved by grace and baptized from sin into salvation and put love into salvation ! We would not of found our destiny if we could decide our destiny in that moment from baby to adult in space. He put us in Eden to be protected and choose not to eat the tree of good and evil and let use have choice ! If we didn't eat we will be perfect and without sin ! But we felled and he gave As econd chance in Jesus and glad that even those scientist believe if they ahd possiblity to ebf ree into choosing thier future our possiblities from predestination would make thier sum of equations and free from God soveriegn and have freewill ?





You have freewill protected and relying in God's effort and his soveriegn that you are not in space making decision but here in the world where in his care of law of moses and law of genesis. They would not of eating the fruti they will live in the probabilities in those rules and soveriegn of G-d's law and love. Be under his guidance and be saved. Knowing we can change those probablities and change our destiny from being A shoe salesman and into lawyer or governor of A state and reach our max and be what we want !


Moses change those probabilities and also Huldah in her prophecy, G-d could reverse those action make us forget it and then done but he let those error stay and destiny was changed seeing he does not make it all effect in a sense of our errors do not ruin our future and in error the Eden will return and heaven on earth and we will be saved despite our errors in Jesus. God could of just erase us and no one will know of our exsitence and done but he lets us know and see those error have existed and predestiantion can change and destiny and sum of those variables and one million in one probablities can change and anything is possible. Let us do good and make knowing of good and evil in God's favor and find our purpose in life and pray to him.


See he made probablities and the sense some people say that one can make decision and really can't change thier future or predestiantion just fear and laziness that future can change and just like Moses and Huldah made mistake know we can make success into our favor and do good and change our future with him and play hard ball i life and into all the promblems life does go thru and breakthru it all and not passive christian that rolls over and breaks the mold life give and make good in life and saves his family.


Kicks and screams and changes his future his predestiantion and not this that with God you can't change your future or predestiantion I see you can't change your future idea and you do not understand it still ! This why you do not understand how freewill works in God's favor and his plan of God. But still stuck with the laws of modern world and liberalism USA faces ! You have freedom to choose and better under God's wing and not in space where psycologist and scientist say they don't get to choose and if they choose they would make more errors and wouldn't recognize them !

 

[grumix8]

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d. When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.

 

[Wynona]

I believe we have freewill but why do you think free will is important.

I did read all your posts. I'm a bit confused.

Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white.

I get that they made him white in paintings but how did they rob the Christians of Jesus?

people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible.

Luke's gospel shouldn't be in the Bible because he isn't a Jew?

 

[grumix8]

Sorry Wynona been writting in A lot fo forums more than 18 of them and debating in all of them. They robbed because of all the time the made him that way lying to the public the catholic chuch for so much and the time they have in thier minds they should of know the truth ! things like Jesus wasn't on A cross but A stake. The sabbath was change by constanstine in the times conflict and Catholic still keeps many secrets of the bible in the vault of vatican.

The catholics did wrong to people but it is why to have freewill to decide from it and look for the real stuff of the bible ;D. You can choose your future ;D.

 

[michaelvpardo]

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don't talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d's plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Free will is the belief that choice is unaffected by our nature.
The curses placed upon us in chapter 3 of Genesis changed not only our nature, but all nature.

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
Romans 8:19-21

 

[TLHKAJ]

If we invented free will, wouldn't that be an act of our will??

 

[grumix8]

People the choosing right or wrong and have the freedom to choose it was something G-d gave and he gave it to Adam that is why he disobeyed if he could not he would of not of fallen. The reason freewill has and even I don't like saying the devil had freewill. So know that freedom of deciding even do the word freewill does not exist in hebrew language and have found the same question the truth is that freedom to choose and disobey G-d has existed before the bible and angels and man have it.



It does not the word or phrase freewill does not exist in the hebrew langauge it conception does not exist. But still to choose " לבחור" It is what closest word to freewill of choosing is.

 

[grumix8]

but free does not exit with it and it does not mean the same thing in modern times. Liberals, democracy, and tea party do not mean the same thing in old time hebrew and wouldn't mean that.

see that you have all the right to choose good or evil and everything is choices you make but like moses who should pray for the water but instead stroke it. Also Hulda who made mistake in prophecy or the kings of israel all have made mistakes and change the course of destiny but still God's plan adapts to thier errors not God for he dones not make errors. But still things willbe different if they didn't do those things but all works good at the end.

 

[grumix8]

The importance is to put things in God's hands even if it's hard to do the freewill put things in God hands no matter what. Even we say now in our modern times putting our hands is that we are happy and thankful for what happens and faithful. Did people back in the old put thier ahnds in God trusted him ?


Yes


Psalm 138:7
your gith hand saves me and that action required for us to put our hands in his ;D.


1 Peter 5:6


humble and he will life you with his hands


proverbs 29:25


Trust in the lord


Ecclesiastes 2:24


From his hand


Isaias 48:13


His hand have created all




the most important hand
Deuteronomy 7:8


His hand took Israel from Egypt.


Even it is not possibel for he all powerful to walk blindfolded and he holds your hands and guides you get to heaven sometimes we must take chances in life.

 

[grumix8]

People the question do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?


Their is no word in hebrew that is freewill you need to put 2 hebrews for that and the concept is that they have A decision and choice to do good or evil and God gave it. Question did the enemy had A choice becaus of his rebellion. I don't like the devil and do not want to say but he ahd A choice and he did bad and good. The nature of good and evil or conscience of existence the choice ? People just make things more simple just do good and put things in God's hands and he will make your choice over the path he gave the power to move it and do good not bad.

 

[grumix8]

People the scripture uses the word "will"
בצוואה
and "free"
But to describe a person as free, as in not a slave, you’d say בֶּן/בַּת חוֹרִין (ben/baht hoh-REEN

Free and will do exist but to make in concept it is need the thing of freedom and good and evil the conscience to be able in hebrew in writting but they cuould not explain they did not have the experience of government,freedom of women, freedom of slavery, and concept of theology were needed but still the base is that choice by God to be with him in doing good or evil but consequence is death for evil or eternal life for good.


Their is gray area and that is Elijah's error, Moses Error, and Huldah as prophets that they made mistakes and change the destiny of the plan of God but God cover it with forgivness and let them learn from thier errors for A purpose and all purpose being good or evil will be in the end A happy ending in revelations. Put things in God hands and put love they God and nieghbor and he will do the rest ;D.

 

[grumix8]

Destiny can be changed and it's based on choice God gave it so use it wisely.freewill does exist even do in light and dark is use it is God who decides.

chekc this out and it gives different perspectives about freewill.

 

[grumix8]

Point of view of science

yes it is an illusion but God can give us the power to decide.

I think that the reason we will be held morally responsible for unbelief is rooted in what is written in John 3:18-21.

Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Given a choice to either believe or not believe, one might choose not to believe because his deeds are evil and he does not want them to be exposed to the light. Or, one might choose to believe because he does the truth and he wants his deeds to be manifest that they have been wrought in God.

The fact that there are reasons behind belief or unbelief does not negate moral responsibility; because those very reasons have the morality of the individual at their base.

So, understanding that I may not have free will because those reasons are predetermined does not negate moral responsibility. I choose to believe or not believe based on reasons that have their basis in morality.

 

[grumix8]

Know that you have freewill and God gave it to you since the dawn of time we all have it and also since Eden know that the devil had it and it was his downfall to atack God but man fell but not's it's fault but the enemy and justice will be ours.



The holy spirit works and exist accordance to God's will and for A purpose as we see freewill existed people. God gave it to us even to the devil ahd freewill. How he got it and still why of he's rebbelion is still A mystery.


But we know that the heart has A part to play with freewill from the lord. Heart is where is the mind is and how the mind does things we exist thanks to God's will to put conscience and know of our existence. We have existence since we can talk and obey question is our conscience of Adam is the smae us our modern humans think ? Or Like A recent baby thinks when he coms to the world. What is the basisi of conscience ?


Our freedom is from our conscience and tell us what we are.

 

[Wynona]

things like Jesus wasn't on A cross but A stake.

How do you know it was a stake? Hmm. Im wondering if the Bible refers to it as a cross. In Galatians 2:20 it says I am crucified with Christ. Weren't crucifixions done on crosses?

 

[grumix8]

This may come as a surprise to many, but the precise shape of the object on which Jesus was crucified cannot be proved explicitly from the Bible. The Greek word translated “cross” is stauros, meaning “a pole or a cross used as an instrument of capital punishment.” The Greek word stauroo, which is translated “crucify,” means “to be attached to a pole or cross.” Outside of the Bible, the same verb was also used in the context of putting up a fence with stakes. Though stauros can mean either “pole” or “stake,” many scholars argue that Jesus most likely died on a cross in which the upright beam projected above the shorter crosspiece. But a biblical, airtight case cannot be made for either a cross or a pole/stake.

The Romans were not picky in regards to how they would crucify people. Historically, we know the Romans crucified people on crosses, poles, stakes, upside-down crosses, X-shaped crosses (such as the apostle Andrew is said to have been martyred on), walls, roofs, etc. Jesus could have been crucified on any of these objects, and it would not have affected the perfection or sufficiency of His sacrifice.

 

[grumix8]

Was Jesus crucified on a cross, pole, or stake? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Wynona]

I see. Interesting.

 

[grumix8]

From the legendary Stanley

the conscience and freewill is linked and both show what is the way. Because like A famous saying says " We exist therefore we are, and we are because we exist ". Complex statment by many philosphers. different ways said but which one would you use ?

Here is another form of explaining freewil and consciousness.