If God's first words were Gen 1:3 "And God said, let there be light..." and it is further written in John 1:3 that "All things were made by him (the word); and without him (the word)was not any thing made that was made." Then how is it that so many Christian sects believe that Genesis 1:1 was God's first act of creation?
Is Genesis 1:1 an act of creation?
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in the case of Gen 1:3 they are the first words spoken by God while He was Present in His creation. He inhabits eternity, that doesn't mean creation does. creation has a beginning, God does not have a beginning, nor does He have to be in the creation to make it. so Gen 1:3 isn't necessarily the first spoken Word of God. nothing but God was, before creation, and actually He is the witness to us on what He did to make His creation, seeing man wasn't until the sixth day.
ummm no. Christ clearly states NOTHING was made without the word. All creations have a beginning and we are not addressing a beginning of God since he is eternal. He is the uncaused cause. You need scripture to back the assertion that "Gen 1:3 isn't necessarily the first spoken Word of God". Without scriptural backing you have no grounds to stand on period.
And actually he is not the 'witness to us on what He did to make His creation' because a witness to his own actions does not refer to himself in the third person. The message was given by an angel just as all messages have been given to man. Further, man was not the first intelligent being to exist. the angels came first, they are the ministering spirits who perform the desires of God. You see this in Job 38
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Go ahead... assert that the morning stars and the sons of God are just the heavenly stars....
for one, God was the only One that was forever therefore by reason of sanity it stands He's the only witness thereof, because the angels and the like were made also, correct? and you haven't pointed out exactly when they were and were made. would that be before Gen 1:1 or after?
and since it is true that nothing was made without His Word then darkness void the deep the earth and heaven were made through His Word. before verse 1:3 before His Spirit moved on the face of the waters that had to have been made through His Word, before He spoke being Present in His creation located over the face of the waters. and all these things scripture says, as plain as all these things are there by reason of His Word and then He said something more while His Spirit moved over the waters. oh and then He said some things if you read on.
oh yea don't forget, God has probably said a whole lot of things that hasn't been document by man "scriptures" to many people and other living entities like angels you've never heard of or will.
and since it is true that nothing was made without His Word then darkness void the deep the earth and heaven were made through His Word. before verse 1:3 before His Spirit moved on the face of the waters that had to have been made through His Word, before He spoke being Present in His creation located over the face of the waters. and all these things scripture says, as plain as all these things are there by reason of His Word and then He said something more while His Spirit moved over the waters. oh and then He said some things if you read on.
oh yea don't forget, God has probably said a whole lot of things that hasn't been document by man "scriptures" to many people and other living entities like angels you've never heard of or will.
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God would indeed have been the only witness if Gen 1:1 was an initial creation event but as scripture plainly asserts in multiple places there was no type of creative event without the word and is described in a very detailed way;
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Thus, the Word (Christ) is the witness testifying of the actions of the Father through him.
Herein is your error, you assume according to a mans understanding that "then darkness void the deep" were created. The logic that time, space and the deep were created is only valid if you first assume that Gen 1:1 was a creative act. Once you remove that assumptive bit of reasoning then you are left with the truth. God has always existed within time and space and nothing that HE created was done without the word.
He may very well have said many things that are not documented to us but, that does not mean he was speaking to no one.
One of the keys to understanding the creation can be found when considering God's first words "Let there be light"....
Since God is light according to the scripture;
1 John 1:5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Then what did God actually create when he said "let there be light"... Do you suppose he created himself? or simply physical light? keep in mind that there was no sun or moon or stars made yet to emit physical light.
How can anyone live by every word of God if there is no comprehension of his very first words? Remove the man made assumptions and the truth will be all that is left.
na, you're just trying to create an argument that isn't there, if All things were made by him (the word); and without him (the word)was not any thing made that was made (which is scripture) then the statement in the beginning God created (which is scripture), is that very thing that all included in the first verse other than God was made, therefore through His Word. just because it was void full of darkness and without form doesn't mean it wasn't made, just not brought in to conformity to accommodate the presence of life therein. again no assumptions, just obvious observation of what is there and the knowledge of how it got there, knowing it was through His Word.
all you are trying to do is to get some believers to think that something was before God, nope, you're most definitely incorrect, and seemingly disingenuous.
anyways the scriptures state the God inhabits eternity
Isa_57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
but its on you to prove anything that exists that inhabits eternity other than God. and since you require scripture, then find the scripture that says so.
all you are trying to do is to get some believers to think that something was before God, nope, you're most definitely incorrect, and seemingly disingenuous.
anyways the scriptures state the God inhabits eternity
Isa_57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
but its on you to prove anything that exists that inhabits eternity other than God. and since you require scripture, then find the scripture that says so.
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Those words certainly are scripture and God certainly did create the heavens and the earth and he did it in 6 days just as it is written;
Exodus 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day...
Not only did these words of God get spoken to men but it was also;
Deut 9:10 ....written with the finger of God,....
God created the heavens and the earth IN SIX DAYS and not prior to that. Gen 1:1 is a description of what God did in the beginning (time) and the beginning (time) consisted of 6 days of creation and one day of rest. You cannot break Gods word by insisting that he did these things in 1.
No where in any of Gods word does he assert that he made anything other than the heavens and the earth described within the 6 days of the creation account.
If you have any scripture.... any at all.... that would support your assumption then by all means provide your references.
There was never anything before God since he is eternal no matter how you would like to twist my words however, the conceptual ideas of time and space have apparently existed alongside God for eternity as well since he never asserts the creation of such.
I would also point out that your reference to Isa_57:15 also states "with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit" so, is it also your conjecture that God has existed an eternity with someone else who has a contrite and humble spirit?
I think it is also worthy of pointing out that God says that he inhabits....(lives within) eternity... logic dictates that if he exists within eternity and eternity cannot exist without the existence of time...
Eternity
1. infinite time; duration without beginning or end.
Then time and space have also always existed.
Actually it is not.
God never says that time and space did not exist or that he made it, so, It is on you to prove by God's word that he did make time and space. My bible states quite clearly that he created the heavens and the earth described in the 6 days of creation and the construction of the heavens are described here on the second day;
Gen1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Sounds clearly like heaven is a construction within space and time to me and the construction of the earth is described here on the third day;
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
and the earth also appears to be a construction within space and time just like heaven. If you would like to show by Gods word how this can be understood any other way then you know what you have to do.
So heaven was created on the second day and earth on the third day, which you cannot scripturally counter but you still have not answered my question ----"If God is light then what did God create on day 1"-----
Matt 13:35That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
John 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.... 8...and have known surely that I came out from thee.....24....that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
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Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
The first thing that needs to be understood is the nature of the way the six day creation was written or narrated. The Bible is more than your typical science book, it is eye witness testimony, and this is exactly how the creation event is written. It was written as if the author saw it occur with his own eyes from earths perspective. Understanding this simple observation, we can see that he gives a blow by blow description of the entire event. I have found that taking the most literal, chronological interpretation of the six day creation is the only one that makes complete sense. The creation event can be divided into three creative acts: (1). The heavens and earth in the very first verse; (2) animal life; (3) human life.
When it says that God created the heavens and the earth, it means exactly that. Its saying that on the very first day, the earth, sun, moon and stars were already created "in the beginning", from the start. What God does from there on in is set it all in order. It goes on to explain that the earth, on day one was without form, void and dark. So when it says that darkness was on the face of the deep, it is simply saying that the light God already created "in the beginning", or the suns rays were not at that point shining on the "face of the deep". "Let there be light" is not an actual statement of creation. What God is actually doing at this point is letting the light shine or diffusing it. However, the light isn't actually shining on the earth because it is stated in verse five that the light was still divided from the darkness on the face of the earth.
God doesn't allow the earth to receive light until verse 14, the fourth day where the term "let there be light" occurs yet again. This proves that "let there be light" was never a creative act. To believe so is an obvious contradiction that I really should not have to spell out. Its because of this false belief about the term "let there be light" that there is so much confusion concerning the six day creation to begin with. The creation already occurred four days ago "in the beginning". What God is doing at this point on day four is letting the earth receive the light from the sun, moon and stars by making them fully visible in the firmament God calls heaven, or the sky as we call it. Some lights will rule over the day, others for the night.
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The account was certainly witnessed but you are completely wrong about it being from the "earths perspective" as can be clearly seen in the account given in Job 38
Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
A corner stone of any construction is the first of the components in a series of parts used to form it and since "morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy" when this first part was laid in place would mean that the observers were not on the earth. If Gen 1:1 meant that the earth was poofed into existence whole there would have been no scripture given by God describing its stage-wise construction beginning with a corner stone.
Then you deny the Lords words which specifically state;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God's first words are obviously "let there be light" Since the witness records the action of Gods statements.
It is also quite obvious that you aren't aware of the manner that stories were told in ancient times. It is typical for ancient stories to be told with an introduction and a summary as can be plainly seen in the genesis account;
Introduction;
Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Summary;
Gen 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Note: There is another verse that references the creation which also shows that God did not create the earth in a formless state in Gen 1:1;
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
If as you believe he first created the earth in an uninhabitable form in Gen 1:1 then this verse would be a lie.
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Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Earth is the focal point of the entire narrative from which its being told. Its not being told from the perspective of anything else. I don't see why there would have to be a foundation laid down for the observer to witness it all "in the beginning", when its clearly stated that the "cornerstone" wasn't laid laid until day two. By "witness", I'm not talking about morning stars and sons of God, I'm talking about Moses, who spoke to God directly, and wrote Genesis. If your interpretation is correct, then it means he in fact was not a witness to the entire event, since there just had to be a solid ground for the author to stand on, according to you, as if a simple vision wouldn't suffice. Meaning, he didn't witness the spirit of God moving upon the face of the waters, separate light from darkness, and separate the waters above and below the firmament. And since Job isn't the one that wrote Genesis, what is stated in Job 38:1 is irrelevant to eye witness testimony, since Job was not a witness to any of it. We're not talking about the book of Job we're talking about Genesis, so lets not deflect the issue.
Which statement comes first to the testament of the six day creation in Genesis 1? Is it "the earth was without form and void", or is it "let there be light"? You get hung up on the term "let there be light", not realizing that every word written in the book IS the inspired word of God. If God was already moving upon the face of the waters of the earth that was "without form and void" before he later says "let there be light", then obviously "let there be light" was NOT the first creative act he did "in the beginning". I already explained to you that "let there be light" wasn't a creative act at all in fact, since the light was already created "in the beginning". Its not always as simple as dismissing the first statement in every chapter as simply an introduction. Genesis 2 is simply an elaboration of the six day creation chronicled in Genesis 1 and continues on from there, and nothing more. Was the earth already present "without form and void" before he says "let there be light" or not? Its a really simple question.
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Earth is not the focal point. The focal point of the creation is the "heavens and the earth".... very plain and simple. If the heavens had no bearing then vs. 1 would simply have said In the beginning God created the earth...
You didn't see what I was telling you in that response... according to you God made the heavens and the earth in one fell swoop in verse 1 and then later the earth was revealed. I pointed out that the earth was constructed in a step-wise fashion not all at once and God had a multitude of observers watching and shouting for joy as it was being put together just as it is pointed out in Job 38 by God himself. You want an instant creation of everything from nothing and scripture does not back your desire.
ahhh now it becomes clear. You believe that Moses watched God perform the creative acts and then wrote what he saw....lol. Let me clear up that major error for you;
Exodus 33:20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 1;18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1 John 4:12No man hath seen God at any time.
Does this clarify your error? I would also point out that God is spirit.... what exactly could a human see?
Only the Son and the angelic host has seen God as it is written;
Matthew 18:10 ...their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven...
Luke 1:19 ...“I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God...
Job wasn't the one doing the talking.... Take a closer look at who is doing the talking;
Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
The Lord himself was talking. The lord himself asked Job to answer his questions about the creation of the earth and now I think you should sit in Job's place and answer the questions that God asked since you feel you understand how it was done.
I counter your lack of understanding with... What are God's first words?
Does Genesis 1:1 begin with "and God said let there be heavens and earth?
Why would an observer begin a story with describing God's actions without words and then switch to God's actions with words? and God said "Let there be light". An observer could simply have stated and God made light.
Who said that the face of the waters were on the earth? According to Genesis 1:2 2 ...the earth was without form, and void.... Kinda hard to have water hanging out on an earth that is without form and void wouldn't you think? Come to think of it why would the earth be described that way if in fact it was already formed and simply had a mass of water on it? it would neither be without form or void would it if it was fully formed in verse 1.
You have indeed explained a number of times now how little you actually comprehend the inspired written word.
The answer to your question is that nothing was made without the word, not the heavens nor the earth or any of the other things that are described in the 6 days of creation. A simple answer to a simple question and an answer that is backed by scripture.
How about something from outside the bible to further your desperately needed education of biblical Hebrew since you deny the actual words from the bible itself?
(Gen 1:1) In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth – the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters” (YLT)
Recent advances in our understanding of Hebrew grammar have largely confirmed Young’s translation. In fact, these advances have improved our understanding of the Hebrew verbal system so much that many biblical scholars now take the view of Philo and the early Church fathers who understood that verses 1 and 2 describe the initial state of the universe prior to God creating light. In other words, Philo and the earliest commentators had this correct all along. The text, properly understood, describes creatio ex materia.
The First Day: Genesis 1:1-5 - Learn Biblical Hebrew
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Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I never said earth wasn't made in a step by step fashion. I in fact made that very clear that the six day creation is chronological in nature. I'm repeating exactly what the text says, that in the beginning, the sun, stars, moon and earth were present, but without form and void. Where did I say that all of it as Adam and Eve saw it was instant?
You can't clarify an error that wasn't there to start with. Yet again, you are putting words in my mouth. When John is given the vision of revelation and describes the one who sits on the throne in heaven, he describes him as having the appearance of jasper and Sardine stone. Again, this is in the form of a vision, but just as real as if God was on his throne right in front of you. It was no optical illusion. With your strong adherence to the belief that no one has seen God, Ezekiel sure had a difference of opinion when God also appeared before him in all his glory in the form of a vision. Some might say he was high on magic mushrooms and hallucinating, but I can assure you that God will have some choice words to say to those people. There is no error in my interpretations, but you are certainly taking liberties with yours. What I am doing is rightly dividing scripture. The text you cite explains that no man has seen God with there own two eyes, at no point is that in reference to the many times God appears before man in a vision, and not under some other guise, not a burning tree, or an exploding mountain, but as he appeared to them in all his glory in heaven.
Thanks for proving my point. Job was not a witness and is therefore irrelevant. So what exactly is yours again? What is your deal?
No, it begins with "God created the heavens and the earth". You do know what the word created means right?
Analogy: In the beginning, a Ford plant created the Ford Fusion 2017, and the car was without form and void, before it, the sum of its parts was assembled along with the body and processed......etc.
This is the six day creation in a nutshell. The sum of earths parts may have been formless, but its matter was present. And really, you speak as if water hanging on an earth that is without form is too difficult a task for God. Is any task too hard for God? According to you there is. God must be such a weakling.
In other words, you haven't proven any point but mine. The fact that you have to adhere to an authority outside the Bible isn't helping your case.
"Ohh but the Hebrew"
Nope, I don't care because I don't speak Hebrew, I speak English. We are using a book translated in English. If you can't convincingly prove your point in plain English, then you have no point to prove at all.
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You absolutely stated that everything was already made;
Dcopymope said "When it says that God created the heavens and the earth, it means exactly that. Its saying that on the very first day, the earth,
sun, moon and stars were already created "in the beginning", from the start. What God does from there on in is set it all in order."
What form does the earth, moon and stars take if as you think they were already created? and you also assert they also had no form and were void? You cannot have it both ways either there is a created form or there is not. The earth, moon and stars are very specific entities that have specific forms
Provide the scriptural reference which states that the writer was taken into a vision. At every point where people are given a vision they state it as such in the writing;
Rev 1:10 On the Lord’s day I was in the Spirit, and I heard a loud voice behind me that sounded like a trumpet. 11 The voice said, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches
Rev 4:1 After the vision of these things I looked, and there before me was an open door in heaven. And the same voice that spoke to me before, that sounded like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” 2 Immediately I was in the Spirit, and before me was a throne in heaven, and someone was sitting on it...
Do you see any reference to any vision by the writer in Gen 1:1 or for that matter anywhere else in the bible that references back to Gen 1:1.You are adding assumption to the text with no scriptural backing.
Job wasn't and you weren't witnesses and neither was the writer of Genesis. You are adding in a non scriptural assumption.
Actually it does not begin that way.
(Gen 1:1) In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth – the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters” (YLT)
Created was a word used by ancient translators who did not know ancient Hebrew.
Nope. you can however, say In the beginning of Ford’s preparing the Ford Fusion the Fusion hath existed waste and void...
Which means exactly what it says there was no structure, no partially made components to assemble. You cannot infer that anyone has made something and it still be in the form of raw materials. I would further point out that there are an incomprehensible amount of raw materials still floating around in space that are not part of the earth, sun, moon, or stars. what do you propose the material should be called? Is it earth, sun, moon, or stars and how might you define the differences?
God does not say he made raw materials, that is an inferred bias of the reader based on his personal interpretation of a translation that came from poor ancient translators who were not cognizant of the meanings and usage of Hebrew language.
Gave you scripture first... you rejected it... then gave you expert reference... you reject it...
God's word was originally written in Hebrew not in English But, you will believe in some humans from centuries ago who were not even Jewish nor God inspired that attempted to make a translation of a written language that they hardly understood.
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ezekiel
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I would think that God made man before Angels. For in the beginning only God.
Matthew 22
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
For God is always the same. We must not forsake that many earths are out their, earth is not the first. When created the waters, rather space we call it, He gathered the earth together out of the waters. Galaxy, solar systems. Same as earth here dry land. It is two fold, a third prophecy. It is three fold as are many other prophecies.
Hebrews 13
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
You can certainly THINK that "God made man before Angels" but then you would have to be asserting that God was lying in Job 38;
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Man was not created until after the earth was finished which includes all other life first. So, who do you think the morning stars who sang together and the sons of God that shouted for joy were when only the earths corner stone was laid?
No one here infers that God is not the same.
Of course, this pile of earth was the one set apart for God's image to be placed upon and it would also be the one referenced in Job 38 since Job would have had no other earth (world) to reference to. Remember, humans were only able to see a handful of STARS during their existence so, other earths were not comprehensible.
And here is the translation of Genesis 1:1-5 of the bible (Tanakh) by Jews (Jews were chosen by God to convey his word) for english speaking people!
Genesis 1
1 When God began to create heaven and earth
2 the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water
3 God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, a first day......
This was made directly from the traditional Hebrew text into the idiom of modern English. It was translated by academic scholars and rabbis from the three largest branches of organized Jewish religious life in America. It was begun in 1955 and was published in three stages: Torah in 1962, Nevi'im in 1978, and Kethuvim in 1982. These were brought together into a complete English Tanakh.
The aim of the translators was to produce the Hebrew idiomatically; to reflect contemporary scholarship, emphasizing intelligibility and correctness; and to make critical use of early rabbinical and medieval Jewish scholars. Obsolete phrases and words were avoided. Logical units of meaning were followed even when they did not coincide with the conventional chapters and verses. However, the latter are marked and numbered throughout.
In order to provide an intelligent rendering of The Prophets (Nevi'im), the translators made corrections in passages where the meaning was uncertain. Some were made by consulting the Septuagint and the Targums, which had used ancient texts in translating.
Where The Writings (Kethuvim) have similar passages to those in Torah and Nevi'im, rendering of those follow wording of the earlier books. Revision of the three sections, especially of Torah, have been done before this one-volume Tanakh was published. Jewish Publication Society (1988)
Genesis 1
1 When God began to create heaven and earth
2 the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water
3 God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, a first day......
This was made directly from the traditional Hebrew text into the idiom of modern English. It was translated by academic scholars and rabbis from the three largest branches of organized Jewish religious life in America. It was begun in 1955 and was published in three stages: Torah in 1962, Nevi'im in 1978, and Kethuvim in 1982. These were brought together into a complete English Tanakh.
The aim of the translators was to produce the Hebrew idiomatically; to reflect contemporary scholarship, emphasizing intelligibility and correctness; and to make critical use of early rabbinical and medieval Jewish scholars. Obsolete phrases and words were avoided. Logical units of meaning were followed even when they did not coincide with the conventional chapters and verses. However, the latter are marked and numbered throughout.
In order to provide an intelligent rendering of The Prophets (Nevi'im), the translators made corrections in passages where the meaning was uncertain. Some were made by consulting the Septuagint and the Targums, which had used ancient texts in translating.
Where The Writings (Kethuvim) have similar passages to those in Torah and Nevi'im, rendering of those follow wording of the earlier books. Revision of the three sections, especially of Torah, have been done before this one-volume Tanakh was published. Jewish Publication Society (1988)
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ezekiel
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And so are all the other worlds God created and placed man on and will create again. I tell you will see the new shortly.
What makes you think God spoke any "first" words at all? God IS the Word according to John 1:1.
How does the Word speak? If the WORD(God) IS the FIRST and the last and is eternal, the WORD "speaks" simply by just being what it is. It is no different to how Nature "speaks" or sends a message by being what it is.
What happens to your perception if you see the Word as God (John 1:1) instead of seeing it as a person named Christ who is the son of God?
Thus, the Word (God) is the witness testifying of the actions of the Father (God) through it.
It simply shows me that the WORD testifies to itself the same as Nature testifies to itself by simply being what it is.
Gen 1:1 implies a creative act.
The idea that God is some eternal character who used something called the Word to create things also still implies a creative act.
Consider the concept of the WORD being God itself. In that scenario, God uses God to create things or the WORD uses the WORD to create things.
That principle is no different to Nature using Nature to create things.
The idea of a character speaking to anyone at all gives readers a mental image of a person speaking to other people verbally like a human speaks verbally, but when you consider that spoken words are mere sounds, and written words are mere symbols, do you perceive Nature speaking verbally when it makes sounds like the sound of the wind blowing or the sound of water flowing? Do you perceive nature "speaking" to you when you see different physical shapes?
If you were blind and deaf, in what way would you perceive, see or hear sounds or symbols as Word?
If you study the Hebrew words you will notice in Gen 1:3 the word "said" is not past tense but is in the IMPERFECT tense. That means the action of saying something is not finished but is a continual repetitive event which happened in the past, is happening in the ever present and continues to happen in future.
The word translated as "Let there be" is "Hayah" which has also been translated as "I AM" in Exodus 3:14
The word "Light" ("owr") can be a reference to physical light or spiritual light as in revelation or illumination.
So, the LIGHT ( revelation, Truth) which is eternal, emits LIGHT( revelation, Truth) at all times past present and future.
Simply by being itself and naturally emitting Light, it "says" "Let there be"(Hayah) Light or "I AM"( Hayah)Light.
Basically the eternal Light( revelation) which always WAS, always IS and always IS TO COME for all eternity is always saying "Let there be" Light or "I AM" Light simply by BEING or EXISTING.
God does not speak audibly to anyone any more than Nature speaks audibly to anyone.
God is not a supernatural character who creates things daily any more than Nature is a supernatural character who creates things daily. It just IS what it IS and does what it does and the evidence is in the WAY it works in repetitive cycles through LIFE in TRUTH (Reality).
Whether creation has a beginning or not depends on whether you are talking about creation as a whole which includes all LIFE of the eternal past, present and future, or whether you are referring to individually created things like one tree or one animal which have obvious beginnings and ends in a physical sense of being born and dying.
Both aspects apply to creation. It has an eternal immortal aspect as well as a finite mortal aspect.
You also need to understand that God IS the beginning (Rev 1:8, Rev 21:6. Rev 22:13) and as an eternal BEING or an eternal EXISTENCE, .."In the beginning" means "In God" or "In the eternal existence"
Therefore to interpret "the beginning" as a specific point in time is foolish since "the beginning"(God) always WAS and IS and IS TO COME.
Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In the beginning = " In God" because God IS the beginning.( Rev 1:8, Rev 21:6, Rev 22:13)
God is also eternal. That also makes the beginning eternal. ( Gen 21:3, Deut 33:27, Isaiah 40:28, Rom 16:26)
Heaven and Earth therefore have eternally been "In God" and God in them. Otherwise where do you think the eternal God was if there was once no heaven or Earth or anything else? Nowhere?
Heaven in a physical sense merely refers to the atmosphere or space around our planet. Heaven in a spiritual sense refers to a state of peace and rest which can be WITHIN the heart of humans as well as all around them.
Heaven was not created by anyone any more than the LIGHT (God) was created by anyone. It always WAS and IS and WILL remain.
In a spiritual sense, heaven, a state of peace and rest, can be created in hearts and minds which are in "hell" or in a state of turmoil and unrest. Light can be created in hearts which are in darkness in order to take away the darkness within.
Any "beginning of Light" is where darkness ends.
John 1:1-5 In the beginning......... And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
This is also talking about the same "beginning" that Genesis 1:1 is talking about. Not a point in time but in God. The darkness in the beginning or the darkness in God is not referring to physical darkness but is a lack of comprehension, a lack of understanding, a lack of revelation.
Physical darkness cannot comprehend anything since it has no mind. The darkness therefore must be referring to the mental and spiritual state of mankind who cannot comprehend anything due to being spiritually dead and the dead know not anything. ( Ecc9:5)
Not even when Light ( revelation) shines in the darkness ( spiritually dead minds) can the darkness comprehend the Light.
Only Light can comprehend Light. Only Light can destroy darkness. Only revelation can destroy lack of comprehension.
In the beginning = " In God" because God IS the beginning.( Rev 1:8, Rev 21:6, Rev 22:13)
God is also eternal. That also makes the beginning eternal. ( Gen 21:3, Deut 33:27, Isaiah 40:28, Rom 16:26)
Heaven and Earth therefore have eternally been "In God" and God in them. Otherwise where do you think the eternal God was if there was once no heaven or Earth or anything else? Nowhere?
Heaven in a physical sense merely refers to the atmosphere or space around our planet. Heaven in a spiritual sense refers to a state of peace and rest which can be WITHIN the heart of humans as well as all around them.
Heaven was not created by anyone any more than the LIGHT (God) was created by anyone. It always WAS and IS and WILL remain.
In a spiritual sense, heaven, a state of peace and rest, can be created in hearts and minds which are in "hell" or in a state of turmoil and unrest. Light can be created in hearts which are in darkness in order to take away the darkness within.
Any "beginning of Light" is where darkness ends.
John 1:1-5 In the beginning......... And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
This is also talking about the same "beginning" that Genesis 1:1 is talking about. Not a point in time but in God. The darkness in the beginning or the darkness in God is not referring to physical darkness but is a lack of comprehension, a lack of understanding, a lack of revelation.
Physical darkness cannot comprehend anything since it has no mind. The darkness therefore must be referring to the mental and spiritual state of mankind who cannot comprehend anything due to being spiritually dead and the dead know not anything. ( Ecc9:5)
Not even when Light ( revelation) shines in the darkness ( spiritually dead minds) can the darkness comprehend the Light.
Only Light can comprehend Light. Only Light can destroy darkness. Only revelation can destroy lack of comprehension.
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