1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

    90.5%
  2. No

    9.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    33
    Is Jesus God, or is he not?
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    14,112
    Likes Received:
    4,769
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jesus is the Son of God. He is fully man and fully God.

    Luke 3:22
    and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”



    John 8:58
    “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
     
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father...

    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

    The Father has made Jesus Christ into a God...

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. - Matthew 28:18

    We through Jesus Christ have authority to put the Fathers power to work!

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
    - John 14:12

    Have you took any steps of faith today?
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    14,112
    Likes Received:
    4,769
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Um....I believe the Christian understanding is that Jesus has always been God.
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    Jesus Christ proceeds from his Heavenly Father "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." - John 8:42

    We have not access to the Father but by Jesus Christ....

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.- John 14:6

    The Father is the God and Jesus is son... God the Father has made Jesus as a God.... However the Father is mightier...

    Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28
     
  6. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    14,112
    Likes Received:
    4,769
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    John 8:58
    “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Aspen... Had you asked...

    1. Is Jesus the son of God.... I would have voted yes.
    2. Is Jesus a God... I would have voted yes.


    But to say

    Is Jesus God?

    A. Yes Vote... Seems to omit the Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit.
    B. No Vote... Would discredit Jesus from being part of the Holy Trinity.


    So I can vote neither yes or no on the poll.
     
  8. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Of course Jesus was God. Jesus taught Thomas for years.

    John 20:28-29 (ESV)
    28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
     
  9. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

    Messages:
    14,112
    Likes Received:
    4,769
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jesus is as much God as the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Recognizing God in any of the personages of the Trinity takes nothing away from any of the other personages. Jesus is certainly not a god - there are no other gods besides God.

    What is more important in a body? The mind? Heart? Spirit? All are one individual soul.
     
    antho91 likes this.
  10. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Due to the trinity doctrine having been ingrained as "truth" from the days of Constantine in 325 C.E., it is has been accepted as "orthodox" by a great majority of those who call themselves "Christian". However, that Jesus is God is not found in the Bible.

    John 1:1 is often used in support that Jesus is God. But, if these same individuals were to consider the grammatical structure, along with other evidence such as the Chester Beatty papyrus 813 of John 1:1, 2 that was written in Sahidic Coptic, it can readily be seen that John 1:1 does not teach that Jesus is God, but rather "a god." The Coptic language was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language that contained an indefinite article, such as the letter "a", unlike Greek which did not.

    The Chester Beatty papyrus 813 reads (interlinear translation): "In the beginning existed the Word and the Word existed with the God and a god was the Word." John 1:1, 2 says literally in Greek: "In beginning was the (Greek ho, definite article) word and the (Greek ho, definite article) word was toward the (Greek ton, definite article) God and god (no definite article) was the (Greek ho, definite article) word this was in beginning toward the (Greek ton, definite article) God." Had the "word" been God, John would have used the definite article ton with "god" in all three instances in John 1:1, 2.

    However, in order to distinguish between the one true God and Jesus as the word or God's chief spokesman, John intentionally left out the definite article in the second instance of "god", so that it reads "a god", defining a quality. Thus, John 1:1, 2 should read: "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God." If Jesus is God, then (1), why is called the "word" ? and (2) how can he be God and yet be "with God" ?

    Further evidence to show that Jesus is not God, is found at John 7:16, 17, whereby he says to the Jews: "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."(King James Bible) If Jesus is God, then why did Jesus clearly distinguish himself from God by using the word "or" (Greek e) in verse 17 after having said that the "doctrine is not mine" ? It is like saying "Do you think Gary wrote the poem or that John did" ? Use of the word "or" makes for a clear division between Gary and John.

    A dictionary says of the word "or": "CORE-MEANING: a conjunction used to link two or more alternatives. In a series of alternatives, it is usually used only before the last alternative. (as used in a sentence) Which do you prefer, butter or low-fat spread? factors that may trigger or exacerbate the illness. (Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) Hence, the word "or" provides alternatives or choices and at John 7:17 as to "whether it (what Jesus taught) be of God, or whether I speak of myself".

    Later, at John 8:28, 29, Jesus again tells the Jews " that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."(King James Bible) Jesus being taught by his Father ( and his having a Father also discounts that he is God or equal to God or that he does "nothing of myself ") is a clear indicator that Jesus is not God, for God was not taught by anyone.

    Isaiah 40:13, 14 says: "Who hath directed the Spirit of Jehovah, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed to him the way of understanding? "(American Standard Version) Having put this within a question that is self-evident, Isaiah points out that God is not taught by anyone and yet Jesus acknowledged that he was taught by his Father.

    Jesus also said that he had a "beginning" (Greek arche) at Revelation 3:14: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"(King James Bible) Thence, Jesus is not God, but the "only-begotten Son of God".(John 3:18)
     
  11. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Messages:
    6,509
    Likes Received:
    211
    No Scripture exists to show that Christ was ever created; instead Scripture exists to show that all things were created by Him (Hebrews 1; John 1, etc.). The Psalms 8 and Hebrews 2 Scripture is about God The Son being made flesh to die on the cross. It's not about some supposed creation of His Spirit.

    There is only 2 sides of debate of whether or not Jesus Christ is God.

    1. Those who have been called to believe on Christ Jesus as Immanuel God with us come in the flesh to be the Perfect Sacrifice for sin, and offer all who would believe on Him everlasting Life.

    or...

    2. Those who refuse to recognize Christ Jesus as God The Saviour because they want to be their own god. These are antichrists, because they refuse to believe that God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ.


     
    Davy and Godssrvr like this.
  12. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Excellent post!
     
  13. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    I do not understand what you are saying.
     
  14. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Care to retract that statement?

    John 1:1 (ESV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (ASV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (NIV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (NASB)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (NKJV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (YLT)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

    John 1:1 (WesleyNT)
    1 In the beginning existed the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (BBE)
    1 From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.

    John 1:1 (MontgomeryNT)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (Darby)
    1 In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (KJV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (MaceNT)
    1 In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.

    John 1:1 (NASB77)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (NLT)
    1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:1 (NRSV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:2 (TLB)
    1 Before anything else existed, there was Christ, with God. 2 He has always been alive and is himself God.

    John 1:1 (WEY)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
     
    Godssrvr likes this.
  15. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    19
    Jesus Christ is the imbodiment of the Holy Spirit, incarnate.
     
  16. NicholasMarks

    NicholasMarks New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think we should be very careful when answering this question. It is commenly understood that Jesus is God but this is in breach of many points made by Jesus himself. It is delicate because Jesus said that "No one comes to the father unless it is through me". This means following his accurate teaching, and to do this, we must read the NT and make up our own minds instead of believing, blindly, what many others have decided is true.

    On several occasions Jesus says that God is in Heaven whilst he was on Earth doing God's work. Almighty God declares..."This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased". Jesus says that though he had become Godlike he stood back from that position, making himself subservient to his father to honour his God's divine status, as, the 'One, True, God'.

    Jesus, here on planet Earth, had made himself like God...being without sin and subjecting himself to God's will by suffering the pain and death induced by taking on the evil forces that was overwhelming the Jewish people.

    Jesus certainly came from Heaven and was a subject of Almighty God before Abraham, but the 'word' has a very special meaning to Almighty God which hasn't, yet, been revealed to us...but, according to my understanding...It is the light of the world.
     
  17. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Jesus taught Thomas. Thomas knew the Jesus was/is God.

    John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
    28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
     
  18. FlamingZword

    FlamingZword New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus was not only God, but he is alone God, there is no such as a trinity,
    The doctrine of the trinity was not part of early christianity.

    Jesus clearly said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
    this is a clear declaration by Jesus that he and the father are the same one.

    www.one-lord.org
     
  19. NicholasMarks

    NicholasMarks New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    1
    It isn't a point that I want to over emphasise within a Christian camp...but it is so vitally important that we see this truth clearly.

    Jesus said that Almighty God bore witness about Jesus and Jesus bore witness of Almighty God. This means that they are separate beings with the same understanding and that understanding hinges upon the true nature of the universe which filters down to the true nature of mankind. We are spiritual beings underneath the flesh and we too must honour our God and our lord by following their teaching accurately and thereby trying to be as righteous and obedient as Jesus was/is to his father...Almighty God. Our salvation is directly linked to Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.
     
  20. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Jesus is God.

    Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
    16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...