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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

  2. No

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    WISDOM CALLED New Member

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    In Judaism there is a difference between God and god. Its important that you know the difference.

    In the same way there is a difference between Lord and LORD.
  2. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    No, there is no difference at all. In Hebrew there are completely separate words for God and god and Lord and lord. It is when translated into English the confusion creeps in since we have no other ways to differentiate the two except with capitalization.
  3. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    For those who don't believe that Jesus is God then who was king David was referring to when he said these words?

    Psalms 110:1 (KJV)
    [sup]1 [/sup]The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    Hebrew Word: ‏יהוה‎
    Transliteration: yhwh
    Phonetic Pronunciation:yeh-ho-vaw'
    Root: from <H1961>
    Cross Reference: TWOT - 484a
    Part of Speech: n pr dei
    Vine's Words: Lord

    from <H1961> (hayah); (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God :- Jehovah, the Lord. Compare <H3050> (Yahh), <H3069> (Yehovih).

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

    Hebrew Word: ‏אָדוֹן‎
    Transliteration: ʾādôn
    Phonetic Pronunciation:aw-done'
    Root: from an unused root (meaning to rule)
    Cross Reference: TWOT - 27b
    Part of Speech: n m
    Vine's Words: Lord

    or (shortened) 'adon, aw-done'; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine) :- lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

    It's the same question that Jesus asked the Pharisees.

    Luke 20:41-44 (KJV)
    [sup]41 [/sup]And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
    [sup]42 [/sup]And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    [sup]43 [/sup]Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    [sup]44 [/sup]David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

    David said the Lord (Christ) was his Lord and another LORD said to David's Lord to sit at His right hand until He makes His enemy His footstool. In other words, the God of the Old Testament in none other than Jesus Himself.
  4. us2are1

    us2are1 Son Of Man

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    God is Spirit. Christ had Gods Spirit in Him. The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are the same. The flesh profits nothing.

    Romans 8
    9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

    John 6
    63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

  5. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    In Exodus 15:2,

    2 Yahweh is my strength and song, and He has become my Yashua;
    this is my God, and I will praise Him; my father’s God, and I will extol

    This is repeated in Isaiah 12:2, 3, Jesus applied Isaiah’s words to Himself in John 7:37-39. As
    history proves, God came to earth in the form of Yashua, as prophesied in the Old Testament.
    Jesus Christ was incarnated in the earth through Mary.

    In Rev. 1:8,

    8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and
    who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

    So according to what I have been reading on some of these post… we have two Almighties.

    Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, and Omega is the last letter. God knows the
    end from the beginning. More than that, HE IS the beginning and the end. This is a reference
    to the timeless nature of the spiritual realm. Whereas we on earth are normally bound by
    time and space, God is not bound in the same way. He is “the Almighty.” In fact, Revelation
    1:8 implies that He is “the Almighty” in that He knows the beginning from the end. In fact,
    He IS—that is, He exists—in the beginning and the end at the same time.

    If we find this difficult to comprehend, it is only because we see events of history occurring
    on a linear time line, while God sees history from a higher perspective. To Him, all of history
    has no time line but occurs in the ever-present at the same moment. All history is a
    momentary event.

    Some Christian authors in recent years have put forth the idea that God only knows
    everything that He needs to know. They say that God does not really know what man
    will do until He does it. They say that if God really knew the end from the beginning,
    it would violate man’s free will. Hence, such authors have sacrificed even the
    foreknowledge of God upon the altar of free will. In doing this, they undermine or
    deny the very possibility of Bible prophecy, for how could God predict anything with
    certainty if He had any ignorance of the future? All Bible prophecy would be reduced
    to an educated guess.

    Such preposterous views come from men who think that God is as much bound by
    time as we are. But John says that He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is not only
    the beginning, but the end as well. John repeats this assertion in Revelation 22:13.

    Revelation 1:1 says that this is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Verse 8 identifies Jesus
    as “the Lord God” and as “the Almighty.” The Greek word translated “Almighty” is
    pantokrator. It is a compound Greek word that means “all-ruling or all-powerful.”
    Even before the time of Christ, the Septuagint (Greek) translation of the Old
    Testament used this word as the translation of the Hebrew term, “Lord of Hosts.”
    (See 2 Sam. 5:10 and 7:25, 27.)

    Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament, the Creator (John 1:1-3) and the
    One who gave the law to Moses. As I showed earlier, Exodus 15:2 reads, literally,
    "Yahweh. . . has become my Yahshua,” or Joshua, the Hebrew name for Jesus.
    This is repeated in Isaiah 12:2, 3. Jesus’ Hebrew name, Yahshua, literally means
    "salvation,” and this is why it is translated in this manner. Even so, it is also a
    literal reference to Jesus Christ.

    And so when Jesus identifies Himself as the Alpha and Omega and “the Almighty,”
    He is referring to Himself as the Lord of hosts in the Old Testament. It means that
    He is Lord not only of the hosts of heaven, but also of the earth. This foreshadows
    one of the primary purposes of the book of Revelation, which presents Jesus Christ
    as "the Almighty” (Rev. 19:15) and as “King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16).
    It presents Christ as ruling His creation—the earth and all that is in it. The future is
    good. Jesus Christ wins in the end. His dominion will be from sea to sea. His will be
    an unending Kingdom that will never be destroyed.

    Can we get happy about this TRUTH?

  6. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Those who deny that, as God's Word so states, have the spirit of antichrist, for denial that God as Jesus Christ came in the flesh is Apostle John's definition of an antichrist...

    I Jn 2:22-23
    22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

    The Title of "the Christ" originates in the Old Testament prophets about God as The Saviour.

    I Jn 4:3
    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
  7. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    PS Why is everyone shouting? :)
  8. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    As you know Logabe I have posted considerable work on this subject, which totally opposes your above views.

    The difficulty you have with Rev 1:8 in assuming this title apply’ s to Jesus being “actual” Yahweh Himself, as the name and title includes the saints also.

    Somehow you need to explain how the Saints are Very God and form part of the deity also.

    Of course we know you cannot achieve this without breaking Scripture. Ultimately you will concede the Alpha and Omega must apply to Jesus and the Saints, both having a beginning (birth) and end (death) provided for by Him without beginning and end.

    You need to acknowledge One who stands outside of the Alpha and Omega but also be able to define those who are within!

    Nothing else will do.

  9. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    I noticed that none of those who believes that Jesus is not God have not taken up the challenge to answer my post in #203.

    And while you'll at it not answering that question here is another one. Who is this person that is cloth with a vesture dipped in blood? It says His name is called the word of God. Question: where else in the Bible is this person mentioned as the Word? Isn't it John 1?(John 1:1) Isn't this the same Word whom it says, the Word was God and was with God? And does it not say the Word became flesh and dwelled among us and we beheld His glory, the glory as the only begotten Son of the Father? (John 1:14)

    Revelation 19:13 (KJV)
    [sup]13 [/sup]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

  10. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    An argument of whether or not God can be tempted to prove He is God is a vague argument. God has been tempted many times as written.

    Num 14:22
    22 Because all those men which have seen My glory, and My miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted Me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to My voice;

    What tempting was that? A temptation towards God to destroy all those in Moses' day who would not hearken to His voice. Because of Moses' interceding for the people by pleading to God, He did not destroy them.

    With Christ being tempted by the devil in the wilderness, it was because the devil wanted to prevent Christ's crucifixion coming to pass as He foretold by His prophets. That's why the devil took Christ upon a high pinnacle and misquoted Scripture to Him to cast Himself down, tempting Him to rely on angels to protect Him (Luke 4).

    Luke 4:9-14
    9 And he brought Him to Jerusalem, and set Him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto Him, "If Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down from hence:
    10 For it is written, 'He shall give His angels charge over Thee, to keep Thee:
    11 And in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone."

    The devil was quoting from Ps.91:12, and added that phrase, "at any time", which changed the whole meaning of the Ps.91:12 verse. It was to tempt Christ to put on a show to prove He is God The Saviour.

    And Christ's answer...

    12 And Jesus answering said unto him, "It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

    Thus the temptation was about Christ being tempted and not succumbing to the temptation. By the devil's tempting Him, and Christ giving that answer, Jesus was proclaiming Himself as God.

    13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from Him for a season.
    14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of Him through all the region round about.
  11. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    Ummmmmmm, so then you would assert that James 1:13 is WRONG?

    James 1:13
    [sup]13[/sup] Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    Such specious arguments. Is the church so removed from the TRUTH?

  12. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    No, James is right. God cannot be tempted 'WITH EVIL'.
  13. antho91

    antho91 New Member

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    Jesus is God incarnate. Without Him, we would still stuck in this hopeless sinful world.
  14. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    ... so if I understand the TRUTH of the matter, then Jesus laid aside his GOD authority to take the form of a simple man, (whereupon everything he did, we can do -- except forgive sin). As such Jesus WAS NOT GOD but became MAN, so that he could be tempted and suffer in like fashion as men suffer (i.e., hunger, fatigue, learning, and being tempted).

    TRUE or FALSE?

  15. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Sorry, loaded type questions with cornered choices such as TRUE or FALSE don't work with me.

    Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, as professed and witnessed all throughout the New Testament writers. And per the Old Testament 'The Christ' IS God The Saviour. To put trust in any other is to deny His free gift of Salvation by not believing on God having come in the flesh to die on the cross for the remission of sins for those who believe.

    Thus your sins are not 'remitted' as long you hold to Judaism's denial that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ of the Old Testament.
  16. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

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    You divert the discussion. The issue is whether Jesus is GOD on earth. Scripture says GOD cannot be tempted, and Jesus was tempted. So are doctrines correct that Jesus retained his GOD nature, or is Scripture correct that Jesus (laying aside his GOD nature) was TEMPTED?

    It's a simple determination, -- as simple as TRUE or FALSE.

  17. Comm.Arnold

    Comm.Arnold New Member

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    Ban em ban em this guy so fake I cant stand em .
  18. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    There's ample evidence that Jesus is God, evidence in scripture and evidence in the lives and hearts of those who know Him.
    There's also a lot of evidence that much darkness lingers in the world. Those that live in it do not know God, or heaven, or that anything exists beyond the end of their nose. Jesus said that the light shines in the darkness and the darkness does not understand it. Truer words were never spoken.
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    United States
    Jesus is God. If this is not true, I may as well become a Buddhist and attempt to conquer my expectations/wants/needs in order to pursue a good life here because there is going to be either nothing or Hell in my future.
  20. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    That is quite the emotional comment.

    It would seem to me that either way you would desire to find out from God what pleases God.

    Why do those who profess that works do not save them work so hard to prove their preferred way to believe?

    Our first man is like a man who believes that a coal of knowledge is too hot to touch and so does not try to touch it. But when someone assures him that it is not too hot to touch, though it is natural that he does not quickly believe them, he does sincerely examine it with them to see. Why? Because he knows that the proper thing is to make sure of what he believes. And, that is normal and healthy.

    Our second man is like a man who believes that a coal of knowledge is too hot to touch and so does not try to touch it. And if someone assures him that it is not hot he rejects even to consider the possibility. Why not? He is too fearful to find out, or he is too prideful to care, or both. And, that is not normal or healthy. It might even be common, but common ought to not be confused with normal.

    For people to regard their beliefs in a manner like our second man is not normal and it is definitely not healthy. For in reality they refuse even to consider whether they are wrong and so never really ever truly consider any evidence that is presented to them. In reality they balk at it all cock sure of themselves or all fearful and do not even really care to look to see, though they pretend to. In themselves they deny that they may not know, imagining anything that conflicts their belief has to be false without ever really giving themselves a chance to consider it.

    What kind of person do you choose to be? Will you have such strong emotional attachment to your beliefs that you are fearful to sincerely examine them? Or, will you be prideful and tell yourself you have already done that and so need look no further? Will you discredit the evidence presented to you never really having reasoned on it? If you are on a Bible debate site will you just start ignoring what was already answered in one thread and run quickly to start another thread where you can espouse the same old beliefs over again, hoping that this time you can prove you are right? Perhaps hoping that the answers you did not like will not show up in your new thread?

    Which kind of person do you imagine God is most fond of? Why do those who profess that works do not save them work so hard to prove their preferred way to believe?

    Is your desire to please God? That then ought to be true either way.
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