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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

    90.5%
  2. No

    9.5%
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  1. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Yes, we are kings and priests, but we have not been given our true positions yet. That happens at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Right now, we only rule in the spiritual realm, as the light of the world and the salt of the earth, and we are to be overcoming the evil one, who is the ruler of this world.

    Jesus is the King of all kings---which means he is above all kings---which inludes the righteous.


    Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)

    [sup]18[/sup] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
     
  2. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    We will rules as kings when Jesus returns. The judgment seat I am assuming you are talking about is the white throne judgment. The white throne judgment is a separate thing that will take place after the millennium.
    What we have been given now is the authority to preach the gospel and dominate every aspect of our lives.


    It still does not change the fact that we are kings and will rule over the Earth.
     
  3. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Buzzfruit:

    The Judgment Seat I refer to is the Judgment Seat of Christ, not the GWT Judgment.

    The rest of your post I agree with and you are agreeing with me.
     
  4. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Then I am assuming that by Judgment Seat you are talking about the throne of Jesus.

    Then I don't understand why you have been so resistant to what I have been saying - everything that I have been saying I have backed up with scriptures.
     
  5. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Explain this Scripture then:

    1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    You are saying that we also are going to be KINGS OF KINGS? Lords of lords? that we will be the only immortals?
    How can one be the ONLY immortal along with someone else who is the ONLY immortal? Impossible, except in one's tortured imagination.
     
  6. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    First thing: I never said we were going to be kings of kings and lords of lords. I said and showed you the scripture that said we will be kings/lords. And I said that Jesus is our King and that we will be kings under Him. Now, as for God being the only immortal, the Bible tells us that the our corruptible body will put on immortally......our bodies will be immortal but we will or should I say we now have eternal life......God has given us His life.

    1 Corinthians 15:53 (ASV)
    [sup]53 [/sup]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


    Everything that I have said is scripturally sound; it just that many Christians have not been studying all the scriptures and often enough. Many of you are not being fed spiritually enough in Church to grow in your understanding beyond where you are.
     
  7. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    I have got serious doubts. The case for Jesus' supreme deity has been laid out. I rest my case.
     
  8. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Amen, and thank you.
     
  9. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    I have never said anything that challenged Jesus' deity but show me what I have said that you regard as unbiblical. I did however showed you all that Jesus quoted the Old Testament saying that God said that they(human beings) are gods, when they accused Jesus of blaspheming because He said He was the Son of God.


    It was not a question of whether they were judges or not……they were questioning who Jesus said He was. So Jesus quoted them the scripture showing them that God called them gods. Then if one continues to read God says, they will die like men.

    John 10:33-36 (GW)
    [sup]33 [/sup]The Jews answered Jesus, “We're going to stone you to death, not for any good things you've done, but for dishonoring God. You claim to be God, although you're only a man.”
    [sup]34 [/sup]Jesus said to them, “Don't your Scriptures say, ‘I said, “You are gods”'?
    [sup]35 [/sup]The Scriptures cannot be discredited. So if God calls people gods (and they are the people to whom he gave the Scriptures),
    [sup]36 [/sup]why do you say that I'm dishonoring God because I said, ‘I'm the Son of God'? God set me apart for this holy purpose and has sent me into the world.



    Greek Strong's Number: 2316
    gods,God

    Greek Word: θεός
    Transliteration: theos
    Root: of uncertain affinity, a deity, especially (with <G3588>) the supreme Divinity
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 3:65,322
    Part of Speech: n m
    Vine's Words: God

    of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with <G3588> (ho)) the supreme Divinity; figurative a magistrate; by Hebrew very :- × exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary


    Psalms 82:6-8 (ASV)
    [sup]6 [/sup]I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
    [sup]7 [/sup]Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
    [sup]8 [/sup]Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.


    gods, God
    Hebrew Word: ‏אֱלֹהִים‎
    Transliteration: ʾelōhîm
    Phonetic Pronunciation:el-o-heem'
    Root: plural of <H433>
    Cross Reference: TWOT - 93c
    Part of Speech: n m p
    Vine's Words: None



    plural of <H433> ('elowahh); gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative :- angels, × exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), × (very) great, judges, × mighty.


    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

    Note: the same Hebrew and Greek words that is used for God is used for those whom God called gods. If God called mortal and sinful human beings gods, then what do you think it will be like when God's children are glorified?
    So anyone that has a problem with the scriptures above they can take it up with God because it was He that said it.
     
  10. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Question: "What does the Bible mean by 'you are gods' / 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?"

    Answer:
    Let’s start with a look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses. Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

    This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

    The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

    Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

    In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds—there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.


    http://www.gotquestions.org/you-are-gods.html
     
  11. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    This author fail to see why God called those men gods even though it says it right there in the scripture. It was not because they held position of authority…..it was because they were sons of God. It was the fact that they were sons of God why they were called gods and which is what Jesus said He was and why they said He blasphemed. The Jewish religious leaders understood what it meant to be a son of God and as far as I know none used that term of themselves, because of implication of saying it. Today, Christians use it very freely without fully understand what they are saying.
     
  12. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Actually, the writers of this article communicate correctly what is meant in the scriptures concerning the term, 'gods' and why is was applied to men. There should be no more confusion about it, but I see some like to hold fast to it.
     
  13. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    The author is mistaken when he said that God called them gods because of their authority or position. God said,Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. They were gods because they were sons of God......that is the reason why God called them gods.


    There is no confusing from my end so I will hold fast to my conviction.
     
  14. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    No, actually it is you who is mistaken.


    It is a sad thing to see a person with his fist tightly holding to a lie. However, it is your prerogative to remain there. I will pray that the Lord will be able to loosen your grip.
     
  15. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Then where in Psalm 82 does it say they were called that because of their authority? Verse 1 says all of you.....it was not only addressing those in authority or else it would not have said all.


    The scripture says, prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.
     
  16. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Psalm 82 (AMP)

    A Psalm of Asaph.

    [sup]1[/sup]GOD STANDS in the assembly [of the representatives] of God; in the midst of the magistrates or judges He gives judgment [as] among the gods.
    [sup]2[/sup]How long will you [magistrates or judges] judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah [pause, and calmly think of that]!
    [sup]3[/sup]Do justice to the weak (poor) and fatherless; maintain the rights of the afflicted and needy.
    [sup]4[/sup]Deliver the poor and needy; rescue them out of the hand of the wicked.
    [sup]5[/sup][The magistrates and judges] know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in the darkness [of complacent satisfaction]; all the foundations of the earth [the fundamental principles upon which rests the administration of justice] are shaking.
    [sup]6[/sup]I said, You are gods [since you judge on My behalf, as My representatives]; indeed, all of you are children of the Most High.
    [sup]7[/sup]But you shall die as men and fall as one of the princes.
    [sup]8[/sup]Arise, O God, judge the earth! For to You belong all the nations.
     
  17. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    That addressing everyone.....everyone should be just and look out for the poor and needy. But I am yet to hear/read why when the word Elohim or Theos are used in regards to the Creator it means God, but when it is used in regards to human beings it means magistrates.
     
  18. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    It is not addressing everyone!

    It takes spiitual discernment to understand the fact that 'elohim' is referring to magistrates, and a just a bit of grasp concerning context.
     
  19. Phillip

    Phillip New Member

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    Jesus is my Lord and my God. There is only One God, His Name is Jesus the Christ. I know of no other God. Only my God Jesus overcomes sin and death in me. For only He overcame sin and death. No other "god" did. No other God but Jesus has Fathered me by His Holy Spirit Come into me and dwelling with me forever.

    The Elohim of God are simply all those in Christ, as reflected in this scripture. It is truly this simple :)

    (Heb 12:22) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    (Heb 12:23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    (Heb 12:24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
     
  20. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    It says all in verse 6.
     
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