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Featured Is Jesus the only Way?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Episkopos, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Greetings to all...even those who by seeing the OP title are already spoiling for a fight! ;)

    The title of the OP is vague in that it brings in an already determined...even set in stone...religious response that tends to be jumped on without a second thought.

    So then the OP can mean various things...many of these are presumed. A carnal man will get defensive about his possession of Jesus the way a hungry person looks at his next meal.

    We need to be clear on where this is going.

    For many people the bible is truth only insofar as they are the ones that are doing the interpreting. So then the bible itself is not being actually respected ...it is the interpretation that it is being given....THAT is what is being respected and trusted as truth. If such a person is corrected by the bible they will ignore the verses that would seem to contradict their stance...and not think twice about it.

    We see the same thing with OUR understanding of Jesus...too often an erroneous, programmed and religious idea of Jesus.

    Do we really believe the way of Jesus is important? Really? Do we realize that Jesus was far more critical of religious people than of sinners in the flesh?

    As in...Sinners and prostitutes will get into the kingdom before you...who are religious hypocrites.

    Mat. 21:31 "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

    Now homosexuality is the "sin du jour" of our time. But is this a carnal sin or a religious sin? If we judge one sin over another...or judge at all...in the class of sin that is with the flesh...are we not doing a greater sin as the pharisees did? Are we not reacting to the flesh as they? Are we not displaying a "sin preference"?

    Did Jesus do this? Or did He treat physical sins of the flesh as an ailment of someone who needs a doctor...not condemnation?

    The wise will consider this.

    I hate the whole idea of homosexuality. But can I not see weakness and brokenness for what it is...without my own judgment and hatreds getting into the mix?

    We are to love, not judge. Of course we are to discern and be able to help people. We are here to save lives not kill people or condemn them. Just like Jesus did. :)
     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is seen as a commodity in our time. Something that is OURS to market and profit from as we see fit. We may consult others about how this Commodity is utilized (in a elder's meeting) but it seems we never get around to consulting God Himself.

    That's seen as impossible.

    What is Jesus the only way to?

    The only way to salvation? As in...accepting Jesus as we have...thereby proving that we are the ones controlling the commodity?

    Or receiving Jesus as He is?

    Jesus is the way...to the Father. Jesus is the way to eternal life. Yes...and that is entered into right now... We go to the Father right away to get the grace required to minister Christ in the world.

    Does one need to accept Jesus religiously in order to be saved?

    Of course not.

    We will not be justified by our beliefs or opinions. All people will be judged by what they have done with what they have been given.
     
  3. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    TAG
    I like it already though :)
     
  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I think that when people see the OP statement they are thinking...Jesus is the only religion that saves. As if Jesus was offering Himself as a religion of men. As if we could claim Jesus for ourselves to the exclusion of others based on OUR say so.

    But that's where people stumble over Jesus. They haven't understood Him.

    Christianity is not a religion...although it is made out to be so in error.

    Jesus is a stumbling block to many...especially Christians. They think Jesus is a partisan religious figure looking for adherents.

    Unlike us, Jesus isn't bothered by other religions. Whoever does what is right and fears God, is accepted by the Father. That means that we need to BEHAVE as Christians to BE Christian...not just label ourselves as Christians. People in other religions often behave more like Christians than we do. And God will grant MORE for them because of it. And we will suffer loss because of this.

    God is righteous even if we are not. It isn't the one who hears the will of God that is justified, but the one who DOES His will that is acceptable to Him.

    There are going to be many surprises on that day when all is revealed.

    The fear of the Lord is still the beginning of wisdom. Whoever (religious affiliation notwithstanding) does what is right and fears the Lord is accepted with God.

    Acts 10:35 but in every nation the person who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
     
  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    So if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...and not just those of Christians...why be a Christian?

    Being a Christian is about knowing God in intimacy so as to enter into His life and glory. The irony is that no one goes to Him by trying to save their own lives. So this is not about a salvation scheme as so many believe. Being a Christian is to suffer and die for others...to be as Jesus in the world.

    Why?

    So that we might be with Him eternally. This is not just about salvation...but about glory.

    2 Tim. 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    Coming to Christ is to learn to let go of ourselves...our lives, our loves, our ambitions, our ways. We come to die so that we might live unto Him. We come to God as a living sacrifice...or not at all.

    Do you have to be a Christian in order to not be thrown in the lake of fire? Is being a Christian like an insurance policy against hell?

    That's what is taught...although it is only half true.

    A Christian will be judged harder than a non-Christian...because of grace. What have we done with the forgiveness and grace from God? Are we now qualified to judge others?

    So then many believers are simply running towards a greater judgment because these are bringing sin INTO the church. These have no fear of God and speak swelling words that will condemn them on that day.

    2 Pet. 2:10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones,

    Who are these glorious ones that they revile? These are the actual sons of God whom they pretend to be part of...but lie. They assume that no one is better placed than they are by being in the church. These show that they are corrupt by their lack of love for the brethren. They are not of us...
     
  6. Acolyte

    Acolyte Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Bless you. :)
     
  7. faithfulness

    faithfulness Well-Known Member

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    Ditto! :)
     
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Is Jesus like any man-made God whom we receive benefits from because of our praises?

    Jesus said...

    John 5:41 "I am not looking for human praise."

    So how can we own Jesus or manipulate Him so as to win favour for ourselves? How can we take advantage of believing in Him as an assurance of salvation for ourselves?

    We can't. We must be vetted first by a holy God. No one actually can approach Jesus to enter into Him unless the Father draws him/her to that place.

    So then is acceptance by God out of our hands?

    Completely. God decides whom He accepts and whom He rejects.

    This is not good for a religion...a religion is about giving people what THEY want out of God...not about what God wants out of us.

    We want a god to help us in OUR kingdom...not be a servant in someone else's kingdom...be He God or not.

    But we are not then wanting to worship the living God but rather a god of our own making. And the religious system will oblige that lesser appreciation of God in spades. Outright lies are only tolerated in certain extreme congregations...but it is the half-truth (which is just another way to lie) which has gained a lot of traction in the modern church.


    And the people loved to have it so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  9. Acolyte

    Acolyte Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, just noticed this is in debate forum. Wish I paid better attention to that. Still enjoyed and agree with your post @Episkopos .

    I usually take back likes in debate, but not this time. :D
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP only. I read the entire post, both of them. when you said,
    well you hit it on the head, it's people interpreting the bible. but a warning to all who do, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation". for sin is neither carnal or religious, but spiritual, which takes place in or of our conscience. it's only carnal or religious when manifested.

    barring that, the bible stated, and it is the Lord who is making the declaration, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

    here the Lord is clear in that he is "the" way. if he would have said, "I am (a) way", ok. but he did not. that "WAY" is holiness.
    but one other thing, he adds "I am the TRUTH" and "THE LIFE". now I will say this, "there are many avenues that lead us to holiness. for the Lord said if we lift him up he will draw all men unto him. for we cannot prostitute holiness.

    as for the prostitutes and tax collectors, it is the same as any, REPENT. it goes back to what you said.... people. but there was many, including the clergy, or of the religious group that did repent, scripture, Acts 6:7 "And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

    and as for homosexuality, you said," I hate the whole idea of homosexuality". but what is the Idea do you hate about homosexuality? I understand you don't hate the person, which is good, but the Idea, is that not a judgment call?.

    but yes, we all sin. 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". there's that TRUTH again that Jesus is. but, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

    if we speak what the bible say and no more, or less, he will separate the wheat from the tares, and the sheep and the goats when he comes.

    judge the righteous judgment, but put no stumblock in anothers way. Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way".

    PICJAG.
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "tomorrow comes today"

    nice imo
     
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  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    This is maybe a somewhat difficult v to interpret, as it is exactly not the people whom it might at first seem to be. The SDA Lady comes to mind here, for whatever reason, but no doubt others who have witnessed some Believer condemn whatever have maybe a better image. She comes to mind for me Bc i read about her um "fervor" i guess you'd call it, in condemning those who do not keep Sabbath like she does, etc

    And just since Peter came up, i am struck by the diff in the way he is so often portrayed in the gospels v the way he writes, this v being a good example i guess.
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We are not to condemn others. The example from 2 Peter was that the corrupt believers are NOT afraid to treat the brethren of Jesus in a way that blasphemes the Spirit in them. We see this all the time on this forum...a lot of accusations.

    But the accusers are bringing their proud flesh into a holy situation...and judging it by their flesh.

    So then it isn't the brethren who are bringing the accusations..it is the corrupters doing so...having no fear that they are heading for condemnation.

    The world will be judged by how it treated the saints of God.

    The irony is that the worst offenders are IN the church. Many OUTSIDE the church will be justified by it's good treatment of the saints...even though they are not followers of Jesus themselves.

    Oh, the ways of God!

    The first will be last and the last will be first in many cases.
     
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I don't think many realize that blasphemy of the Spirit happens all the time...even on this forum.

    How we treat the brethren is how we treat the Holy Spirit. We are to discern the body of Christ...or we may get sick or die...as Paul said. If not now...then surely judgment is coming.
    Do we fear the Lord and treat the brethren as we would Jesus Himself? Why not? Are we not believers? Why should our beliefs bring us to more harm than the unbelief of others?

    Where is the love for Jesus Christ...or from Jesus Christ in these?

    i think people are so focused on dogmatics and bible verses they are blinded to the living God acting and speaking in their midst. And this through His servants. But this is not understood by these. It is as if God was so far away from the situation that it was safe to behave in the most undignified and ungodly manner possible...for the sake of a perceived truism....from the bible. Such foolishness. And such a heavy judgment to come.

    It would be better to remain outside the church than to go into the church and attack what is holy. It is better to keep the flesh outside the church than to parade the flesh around in the church with seeming impunity.

    God is holy. It is a fearful thing to have to face Him in a defiled flesh.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    woe to you, scribes and Pharisees

    why do you call Me good? No one is good but Theos-God

    iron sharpens iron i guess, yeh

    imo some allowance should be made though; this is not irl? We have very limited means for expression here, and doing the right thing--ignoring, imo--may not always be the best reply?

    "like"

    ha well, we have diff defs of "Church" i guess, but i get you, yeh
    The first will be last and the last will be first in many cases
     
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  16. faithfulness

    faithfulness Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the opportunity to exchange; though not on par as you and bbyrd009 :)
    Jesus of Nazareth is passing by;
    in the day of visitation (based on the Greek word episkopos),
    the two on the road to Emmaus, did not our hearts burn within us?
    scary to think if we don't recognize'hear Him?
    Faith comes.
     
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Are we seeking to live at God's level...or trying to bring down God to our level? Are we discerning the body of Christ...or do we see everyone as equally carnal...like the world does?

    How can we say we love Jesus whom we don't see yet not love the brethren in whom Christ dwells... who we do see?
     
  18. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    A very poisonous and antichrist type statement. You might as well say 'Hath God said?", especially in a culture that is increasing in illiteracy of the bible. The Holy Spirit and God's written word work in conjunction with each other.

    Acts 4:12 KJVS
    [12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
     
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  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The opposite is true. You are elevating a book to being a divinity in it's own right. But the bible only points the way. Your position is therefore idolatrous.

    The devil uses the bible as much as God does. So you will be fooled in this way.

    And it's the bible that reveals this. So then the Holy Spirit uses the bible...but it is not always the Holy Spirit who does. In this your argument turns on itself.

    I maintain that God goes unnoticed in the midst of many who proclaim various verses from the bible.

    It is just as the religious people in Jesus' day who also claimed the scriptures for themselves but were fully ignorant of Jesus....of whom the scriptures were written both by and about.
     
  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    So which is it? Does Jesus point to the bible for salvation...or does the bible point to Jesus for salvation?

    And which does the sanctifying? Is it the altar of God or the gift on the altar? Which is the truth...the bible? Or the Person of Jesus?

    We have exactly the same problems today that all religious people have had throughout history. These were ignorant of the fact...but we remain ignorant even as we read about them.
     
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