Is Michael Another Name For Jesus?

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Mr E

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The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)


Much love!

That is the statement of faith for (presumably) the owner. Secondly-- that was several 'owners' ago. There is no requirement for anyone to agree to it, or uphold it- is there?

The "rules" state that the things members post are their own opinion.

I have no problem identifying with unorthodox. But no one is going to label me not 'Christian' because I follow Christ.

Stop being so afraid of the idea that someone might see things differently. It shouldn't threaten you the way it seems to.
 

marks

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Stop being so afraid of the idea that someone might see things differently. It shouldn't threaten you the way it seems to.
You were replying fine up to this point. Pointing to something isn't the same thing as being afraid or feeling threatened.

As towards whether it applies, if you read the statement, it does. If the owner wishes to change it, he is of course free to do so.

Much love!
 
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RLT63

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What are the topics that is banned?
From what I understand the issue of the Trinity is a closed matter. This site affirms the Trinity and discussion of matters of the Trinity and the deity of Christ are restricted to certain areas of the forum. The way the thread was being derailed that conversation should probably take place in one of the areas where this is allowed.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Because we cannot freely discuss this topic in this forum, would you please move your questions to the “Unorthodox” forum. I will be happy to discuss those scriptures with you there.
I gave bad advice there previously. I thought “unorthodox” was a thread for nonbelievers and so I thought the banned topics could be discussed there, but I was wrong. The ONLY places for either of those topics are the three rooms at bottom of main forum page under “nonchristian forums.”
However, I think you need to change your profile to something other than “Christian” in order to even be able to start a thread there. And anyone can participate once a “non Christian” starts a thread there.
So you could do it but would take some finagling and such a desire to discuss it that you would publicly put “Non Christian” as your designation and I don’t know anyone who would be willing to do that.
I say all that because I was confused enough to seek out understanding on how the rules worked and because I don’t want anyone to get a warning or infraction because I gave them wrong advice.
 
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Enoch111

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The pre-human Jesus had a name, which I believe is Michael.
Since the Bible calls Michael "Michael the archangel" your comment above is not only deceptive but ignorant. So what do we read about Michael in the Bible?

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (Jude 1:9) So what we have here is one of the chief angels of God -- Michael -- facing the fallen angel "the devil", and calling upon the Lord Jesus Christ to rebuke him. Michael did not bring a slanderous accusation against Satan but called upon the Lord to rebuke him. This corresponds to what we read in Zech 3:2.

Then we read this in Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels...

Here the archangel Michael is shown to have God's angels under him in order to do batte with Satan and his evil angels. So now we come to the meaning of "archangel".

Strong's Concordance
archaggelos: a chief angel, i.e. archangel
Original Word: ἀρχάγγελος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: archaggelos
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khang'-el-os)
Definition: a chief angel, archangel
Usage: a ruler of angels, a superior angel, an archangel.


Can any genuine Christian call Jesus "a superior angel" when the Bible makes it crystal clear that Christ is THE CREATOR of all the angels? Which means that only cultists (antichrists) will hold to such an outrageous belief.

Colossians 1:16 lists all the hierarchies of angels created by Jesus:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 

stunnedbygrace

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From what I understand the issue of the Trinity is a closed matter. This site affirms the Trinity and discussion of matters of the Trinity and the deity of Christ are restricted to certain areas of the forum. The way the thread was being derailed that conversation should probably take place in the Unorthodox Forum
That’s not technically correct. It’s not the deity of Christ conversation that is banned. It’s this conversation and argument that is banned: “Jesus is not God.” So you are not allowed to argue that He is not God. You ARE allowed to state that He IS God.
And yes, discussion of “the trinity” is banned, at least for a bit, to try to stop the acrimony that it caused forum wide.
 

RLT63

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That is the statement of faith for (presumably) the owner. Secondly-- that was several 'owners' ago. There is no requirement for anyone to agree to it, or uphold it- is there?

The "rules" state that the things members post are their own opinion.

I have no problem identifying with unorthodox. But no one is going to label me not 'Christian' because I follow Christ.

Stop being so afraid of the idea that someone might see things differently. It shouldn't threaten you the way it seems to.
It’s not unusual for a forum to define who may claim to be a Christian. I’m on another forum where you have to agree with the Nicene Creed in order to identify as Christian. From what I’ve seen the forum has been very lenient until it was overwhelmed with threads debating the Trinity and the deity of Christ. It was clearly posted that this was a closed issue. While I would rather be able to debate the issue and I don’t care for censorship I can understand why this action was taken.
 
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RLT63

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That’s not technically correct. It’s not the deity of Christ conversation that is banned. It’s this conversation and argument that is banned: “Jesus is not God.” So you are not allowed to argue that He is not God. You ARE allowed to state that He IS God.
And yes, discussion of “the trinity” is banned, at least for a bit, to try to stop the acrimony that it caused forum wide.
Thank you for pointing that out. I should have said debating the deity of Christ is not allowed.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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That is the statement of faith for (presumably) the owner. Secondly-- that was several 'owners' ago. There is no requirement for anyone to agree to it, or uphold it- is there?
I dont think the mods would agree with you there but they’ve stated that they will discuss the matter privately if anyone has questions or grievances.
One of the forum rules actually forbids discussing mod actions publicly.
 
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Nancy

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The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)


Much love!
Hi Marks,
The Statement of Faith is just what the owner of the site adheres to, there is no rule broken if not adhering to them.
:)
 

stunnedbygrace

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Why would it be a violation of Forum rules?
We have freedom of speech, don't we?
The forum is owned, operated, maintained and paid for by a person, who is allowed to make rules for participation, just like any other privately owned website.

Actually, if a JW wanted to create a website for JW’s, it would be completely legal to ban anyone saying Jesus is God, which is against what they believe, if they said in their forum rules that it was not allowed.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Hi Marks,
The Statement of Faith is just what the owner of the site adheres to, there is no rule broken if not adhering to them.
:)
I guess I needed clarification on it, so thanks. I thought “The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold” meant something different than it really does.
 
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RLT63

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Hi Marks,
The Statement of Faith is just what the owner of the site adheres to, there is no rule broken if not adhering to them.
:)
What are the rules concerning identifying as a Christian?
 
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Nancy

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I guess I needed clarification on it, so thanks. I thought “The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold” meant something different than it really does.
I at first was confused but, they're not rules...
 

Enoch111

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So you are not allowed to argue that He is not God.
So why was this thread allowed to remain? And was the poster banned? Walter and Debbie have a huge bunch of threads on Jesus being Michael the archangel (meaning that Jesus is NOT God). So why have they not been banned? Or have they been banned and we are not aware of it? Or do we have a two-tiered system so that heterodox doctrines trump orthodox doctrines?
 
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Mr E

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Now that, I am not privy to, at least not so far. Good question though. I would think repentance, Jesus died and rose again for our sins...?
@Angelina ? @lforrest ?

Shouldn’t you be asking @doughty if signing on to certain doctrine and dogma is a requirement for participation here?

I don’t think he’s interested in an echo chamber where everyone must sing from one song sheet. That wouldn’t be much of a discussion forum and it wouldn’t be any kind of an outreach.
 
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Adventageous

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Actually, if a JW wanted to create a website for JW’s, it would be completely legal to ban anyone saying Jesus is God, which is against what they believe, if they said in their forum rules that it was not allowed.
Yeah, they have that already, and they do (ban). They also have a very strict entry questionaire that I twice tried to penetrate, but could not, as it basically requires a phone call to the local Hall and elder to check your actual membership status.
 
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Adventageous

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Walter and Debbie have a huge bunch of threads on Jesus being Michael the archangel (meaning that Jesus is NOT God).
The part in brackets is your a priori opinion and bias, not the statement of any scripture, nor the statement of W&D (that I am aware of). The very subject 'Is Michael the archangel = the Son (aka Jesus)' can be discussed without ever broaching the topic of created or uncreated. The two, identification of person, and identification of nature are two completely different issues.
 
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