Is the last antichrist beast a dead man made alive again?

[robert derrick]

Someone, called The Light, has suggested evidence from Scripture and recent past discoveries, that the antichrist beast of Rev 13, is Nimrod-Gilgamesh, made alive again by the Lord, like the dead body that touched the bones of the prophet, and Lazarus coming out of the grave.

At first, I thought it was at least a fun suggestion, while going about thinking to show it not possible. While I'm not convinced by archeological claims, I am seeing the sense of it in prophecy of Scripture.

The main thing is, I see no Scriptural proof of why not. Nothing in Scripture says that the Lord cannot bring any dead man back to life, based upon how long the body has been in the grave.

And though it is not the resurrection of the dead, which begins with the body of Abel, it still shows no time limit of bodily decay. In fact, Jesus waited four days purposely to show the body of Lazarus was indeed dead, and not just in some sort of Jewish soul-hoovering funk.

Does anyone have any Scripture plainly showing that 1st beast cannot be a long-dead man? That the Lord would never bring back to life? To have a wicked corrupter of souls live again in the flesh?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Robert,

Check this out if you never heard of it.
Nero_Redivivus_legend

The Nero Redivivus legend was a belief popular during the last part of the 1st century that the Roman emperor Nero would return after his death in 68 AD. The legend was a common belief as late as the 5th century.[1] The belief was either the result or cause of several imposters who posed as Nero leading rebellions.

 

[robert derrick]

I don't agree Nimrod was ever 2/3 of a god, as the pagan myth says, nor would he be such a pagan god if brought back to life, but just another mortal man on earth, that bleeds like the rest of us.

The Scripture of every man is given once to die, does not apply as some people think, because that would mean the two dead men brought back to life, to live out the rest of their natural lives, would be false testimony of Scripture.

The more I am considering the suggestion, the more I find it at least appearing to fulfill a few prophecies of the last great antichrist on earth.

Why would the Lord do such a thing, if true? To be the greatest test of faith among the Christian churches:

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Daniel was tested with lions, and we are tested with the roaring lion, and so the greatest purifying of the saint, would be from the greatest test of the greatest roaring lion's man in the flesh ever. The same one that Scripture says the dragon personally sides with, in order to deceive the very elect, if possible, just before the Lord's appearing again.

Remember, antichrists are false apostles and christs themselves, so that the latest and greatest of them all, would be the one with the most seductive and lying appearance of Jesus Christ coming again on earth.

And, a corrupt and wicked soul of a man arising from the bottomless pit of hell, would probably have the greatest zealously enraged fire of any man on earth ever. Far greater perhaps than Saul breathing out slaughters:

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

The main difference of course, is Saul was forgiven when he repented, because he persecuted the saints by unbelief. But that first beast has no such excuse, but will make himself the greatest of false apostles of Christ, for the express purpose of seducing the saints into his own greatest organized churches ever on earth, in the name of Christ.

And he will receive personalized help from Satan:

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

That living again beast with a great mouth, and the dragon's power of lying wonders, comes after Satan has been cast down from heaven to earth, to become just a raging roaring prince and power of the air.

Would the Lord then give him the perfect man to become the greatest antichrist to use by the dragon, so as to make the most effective war against the righteousness of God's word, and the saints that believe and do His righteousness?

The greatest child of the devil, will come to seduce the most Christians and inhibitors of the earth, that he is christ coming again in the flesh, just before the Lord does come again in the air with clouds.

That one would proselytize Jews, as well as Christians that look for another gospel, that that of Jesus Christ the righteous:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Personally if it's true, then I would pick Korah, rather than Nimrod. Afterall, Christians are warned twice against Korah, along with Cain and Balaam, including Jude, who writes the last epistle before Revelation.

 

[robert derrick]

Hello Robert,

Check this out if you never heard of it.
Nero_Redivivus_legend

The Nero Redivivus legend was a belief popular during the last part of the 1st century that the Roman emperor Nero would return after his death in 68 AD. The legend was a common belief as late as the 5th century.[1] The belief was either the result or cause of several imposters who posed as Nero leading rebellions.

Well then, at least the prophecy has already been believed long ago. I'll take a look at your link, to see if any reasons are made from Scripture.

I wonder if The Light knows his prophecy is not new, other than different dead men to be used by Satan, just before the Lord comes again.

I'm already at the place of believing it, so long as no Scripture is given to plainly debunk it.

After all, so long as Scripture is not contradicted, then any interpretation still has legs to walk on.

Frankly, I'm actually experiencing the same kind of spiritual inspiration in all this, as with any other prophecy and doctrine, that is more and more confirmed by all the Scriptures.

If there were such a Scripture speaking of the dead living again on earth in the flesh, then that would nail it.

That would be doctrinal proof added to testimony of Scripture.

And it's not the same thing as the resurrection of the dead in Christ, living on earth as Jesus with flesh and bones in His Millennium.

Since Jesus already has lived with flesh and bones on earth for 40 days, then He can do so for 40x40 days, unto a thousand years.

And since Jesus already raised Lazarus from the dead after 4 days, then He can does so for any man after thousands of years.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?

Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

[robert derrick]

Hello Robert,

Check this out if you never heard of it.
Nero_Redivivus_legend

The Nero Redivivus legend was a belief popular during the last part of the 1st century that the Roman emperor Nero would return after his death in 68 AD. The legend was a common belief as late as the 5th century.[1] The belief was either the result or cause of several imposters who posed as Nero leading rebellions.

Ok, I'm familiar with the hope of many Romans for Nero's return from the dead, or from where he hopefully hiding out. Nero was actually loved by most Romans, and they made a cult of him to worship in.

I just didn't realize some Christians had taken the well-known legend, to apply it to the last antichrist.

Which, I suppose would make sense, if the legend were true. But that legend is from pagan Romans, not from Scripture. I would like to find why those Christians believed it possible.

What I am offering is Scriptural reason to believe the Lord makes a wicked and deceiving dead man to live again in the flesh, for the express purpose of being used by Satan on earth, as the last great imposter christ ever.

Remember, the reason why antichrists are allowed to come by the Lord, is to try us and purify our faith and lives in Christ. Tribulation is not only meant for the good to the saints, to prepare us for His appearing in white, but is promised to us:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

We are to flee fornication, not tribulation.

It's just that I never considered the Lord Himself bringing in an antichrist for His own purposes.

It would be the ultimate time of what the devil intended for evil, the Lord Himself intended for good, by bringing that mad prophet back to life:

But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

And the main work of a false apostle and teacher, being used by the devil to corrupt the word and faith of Jesus, is to draw out the dross from the silver, and cleanse the body of Christ. And many times in Scripture the decieved hypocrites are gathered into one place, so that the Lord can handily destroy them all: Even as with Korah and company.

And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi: Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them?

It is God's work that was done with Korah. It was the Lord that provoked him, and brought him and his company forward to separate themselves from Moses and the rest of the children of Israel. It was the Lord that provoked Pharoah and hardened his heart, for the purposes of tribulation upon God's people flourishing and growing used to Egypt:

Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.

He could do the same again with Korah again, and cull out of all Christians and Jews, those that would accompany such a false minister again.

Korah was a Levite priest.

At this point, I've gone far enough along with this, so that it's becoming more a matter of exactly who will be brought back to life again, not if.

Unless there is Scripture forbidding such a mad prophecy.

I'll bet Art Bell would have been fascinated by this stuff on his show.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Someone, called The Light, has suggested evidence from Scripture and recent past discoveries, that the antichrist beast of Rev 13, is Nimrod-Gilgamesh, made alive again by the Lord, like the dead body that touched the bones of the prophet, and Lazarus coming out of the grave.

At first, I thought it was at least a fun suggestion, while going about thinking to show it not possible. While I'm not convinced by archeological claims, I am seeing the sense of it in prophecy of Scripture.

The main thing is, I see no Scriptural proof of why not. Nothing in Scripture says that the Lord cannot bring any dead man back to life, based upon how long the body has been in the grave.

And though it is not the resurrection of the dead, which begins with the body of Abel, it still shows no time limit of bodily decay. In fact, Jesus waited four days purposely to show the body of Lazarus was indeed dead, and not just in some sort of Jewish soul-hoovering funk.

Does anyone have any Scripture plainly showing that 1st beast cannot be a long-dead man? That the Lord would never bring back to life? To have a wicked corrupter of souls live again in the flesh?

I have Common Sense. People dissolved into the elements for thousands of years no longer have a corpse, and cannot be resurrected in the same way Lazarus or Jesus was. The general resurrection of the saints will be not a restoration of the old body but a reproduction of the person in a *completely new body.*

When we speak then of someone being resurrected after many centuries and over millennia, we are talking about an impossible task, or at best, a senseless one. It is much more likely that the restoration of the Beast is a restoration of pagan Rome, or perhaps the Antichrist himself being assassinated, and then recovering.

I take the former choice. But I don't know. I just don't think the Nimrod idea is feasible.

 

[Always Believing]

Someone, called The Light, has suggested evidence from Scripture and recent past discoveries, that the antichrist beast of Rev 13, is Nimrod-Gilgamesh, made alive again by the Lord, like the dead body that touched the bones of the prophet, and Lazarus coming out of the grave.

At first, I thought it was at least a fun suggestion, while going about thinking to show it not possible. While I'm not convinced by archeological claims, I am seeing the sense of it in prophecy of Scripture.

The main thing is, I see no Scriptural proof of why not. Nothing in Scripture says that the Lord cannot bring any dead man back to life, based upon how long the body has been in the grave.

And though it is not the resurrection of the dead, which begins with the body of Abel, it still shows no time limit of bodily decay. In fact, Jesus waited four days purposely to show the body of Lazarus was indeed dead, and not just in some sort of Jewish soul-hoovering funk.

Does anyone have any Scripture plainly showing that 1st beast cannot be a long-dead man? That the Lord would never bring back to life? To have a wicked corrupter of souls live again in the flesh?

Wow, now this is a new one. I suppose anything is possible. It certainly could make a great Marvel movie. But if there's no Bible against it, then why not.

 

[Always Believing]

I have Common Sense. People dissolved into the elements for thousands of years no longer have a corpse, and cannot be resurrected in the same way Lazarus or Jesus was. The general resurrection of the saints will be not a restoration of the old body but a reproduction of the person in a *completely new body.*

When we speak then of someone being resurrected after many centuries and over millennia, we are talking about an impossible task, or at best, a senseless one. It is much more likely that the restoration of the Beast is a restoration of pagan Rome, or perhaps the Antichrist himself being assassinated, and then recovering.

I take the former choice. But I don't know. I just don't think the Nimrod idea is feasible.

I'm thinking someone doesn't give God enough credit. He knows every hair on the head and body of every creature on earth and every little shooting flame of every star in the universe.

I'm thinking He can figure out which bone fragment and tissue goes where to resurrect the same old dead body. Afterall It is called the resurrection of the dead and from the dead. That's not leaving the dead behind.

And Paul says them alive and remaining on earth at Jesus' return will have their mortal bodies changed to immortal. That includes old dead and alive mortal bodies. Some Christians won't be getting brand spanking new bodies while others are sort of stuck with their old ones on earth.

I've never heard the idea of the beast being a dead man made to live again, and by the Lord no less, in order to team him up with his best friend the devil. But stranger things have happened in the Bible and it's happened at least twice before.

No one knows the manner of life of the first one recorded that touched the bones of the prophet. He may have been an evil thief and murderer that lucked out.

 

[Always Believing]

I'm thinking there could be two dead men in this movie that live again on earth as the exact counterparts to the two God raised from the dead. There is one from the sea and one from the earth. The one with crowns from the sea could be Nimord or some other evil king, and the one from the earth could be Korah or some other false prophet or priest.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm thinking someone doesn't give God enough credit. He knows every hair on the head and body of every creature on earth and every little shooting flame of every star in the universe.

I'm thinking He can figure out which bone fragment and tissue goes where to resurrect the same old dead body. Afterall It is called the resurrection of the dead and from the dead. That's not leaving the dead behind.

And Paul says them alive and remaining on earth at Jesus' return will have their mortal bodies changed to immortal. That includes old dead and alive mortal bodies. Some Christians won't be getting brand spanking new bodies while others are sort of stuck with their old ones on earth.

I've never heard the idea of the beast being a dead man made to live again, and by the Lord no less, in order to team him up with his best friend the devil. But stranger things have happened in the Bible and it's happened at least twice before.

No one knows the manner of life of the first one recorded that touched the bones of the prophet. He may have been an evil thief and murderer that lucked out.

Yea, I think it's pretty popular--the idea that Antichrist will be murdered, but will somehow recover. I personally think this is a reference to the Roman Kingdom, which was defeated by Christ at the Cross, and yet recovers its pagan power in the last days. Indeed, Christian Civilization is undergoing a tremendous apostasy from the faith, and paganism in Europe is springing up again.

I don't think it's possible for God to collect fragments of people dead for thousands of years. After all, those elements are not preserved in distinct locations, but are reduced to chemical components that are shared by other people and other creatures later. You can't have a resurrection of two different people using the same parts!

 

[ewq1938]

Does anyone have any Scripture plainly showing that 1st beast cannot be a long-dead man?

The ten horned beast is not a man at all. It isn't a man in Daniel 7 either. The only singular man in Dan 7 and Rev 13 is the little horn, and the beast with two little horns (an obvious nod to Daniel's singular man), both being the man who rules over the ten horned beast kingdom and is introduced second in both passages.

 

[Gottservant]

There is no power the anti-Christ does not attempt at some point.

But at every point, God punishes his pride.

(So yes, to your question, but with the caveat that God will judge it).

 

[Always Believing]

Yea, I think it's pretty popular--the idea that Antichrist will be murdered, but will somehow recover. I personally think this is a reference to the Roman Kingdom, which was defeated by Christ at the Cross, and yet recovers its pagan power in the last days. Indeed, Christian Civilization is undergoing a tremendous apostasy from the faith, and paganism in Europe is springing up again.

Where did this come from? That's nothing I've talked about.

I don't think it's possible for God to collect fragments of people dead for thousands of years. After all, those elements are not preserved in distinct locations, but are reduced to chemical components that are shared by other people and other creatures later.

I see. You don't believe God can do it, because our scientists can't. God knows every atom in the universe and nothing is impossible with God. And the Bible says He will have all the dead bodies live again to be judged both from hell and the sea. He'll have them living again if He has to assemble them apart from fish guts. You also bypass God's own words on the matter, unless you just didn't read all I posted.

You can't have a resurrection of two different people using the same parts!

That's obvious. That's why the Bible doesn't say so. The resurrection of the dead is with the old dead bodies from the dead. In the first resurrection they will be just like Jesus' glorious body. With the rest of the dead not so much.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Where did this come from? That's nothing I've talked about.


I see. You don't believe God can do it, because our scientists can't. God knows every atom in the universe and nothing is impossible with God. And the Bible says He will have all the dead bodies live again to be judged both from hell and the sea. He'll have them living again if He has to assemble them apart from fish guts. You also bypass God's own words on the matter, unless you just didn't read all I posted.


That's obvious. That's why the Bible doesn't say so. The resurrection of the dead is with the old dead bodies from the dead. In the first resurrection they will be just like Jesus' glorious body. With the rest of the dead not so much.

You should study science before passing judgment. Your Great Great Grandma Jane does not have millions of atoms scattered across the earth and in her grave that God can reassemble into a new body. Decomposition of the physical body means a return to the elements of Nature, from which can spring new food sources to produce new bodies.

The building blocks of Nature can be reused and do not remain reserved for each deceased human being. When the Bible speaks of "resurrection," it can speak either of a healing of a recently-deceased human being or of a completely new construction of one.

The sense of a "new construction" is a "resurrection" only in the sense of the previous person assuming a new body, and not a reassembly of the previous body. You're entitled to believe what you will, but it is not logical in view of scientific realities.

 

[Always Believing]

The sense of a "new construction" is a "resurrection" only in the sense of the previous person assuming a new body, and not a reassembly of the previous body.

I've given what I believe to be proof from Paul that the resurrection of the dead is of the dead body. Daniel says the resurrection is of them in the dust of the earth, and Matthew says many bodies of saints came out of their graves with the resurrection of Jesus and walked in Jerusalem. Rev 20 says it is the dead in the sea and hell that are given up to be judged.

But you speak of something else. You are saying that the resurrection of the dead is not that of our dead bodies. You say it is a different body. A spiritual one created new without any connection to our mortal bodies. When do we receive them? When saved? Or only after death of our bodies? Since we receive new spiritual life of the soul, is that when the new resurrected spiritual body is also recieved by the new man?

 

[Always Believing]

You should study science before passing judgment.

I don't pass 'judgment' on science. I know science and men can't do what only God can. You are the one passing judgment upon God's word and changing it to fit science.

The building blocks of Nature can be reused and do not remain reserved for each deceased human being.

I believe Paul speaks of false science used to nullify the Bible.

You're entitled to believe what you will, but it is not logical in view of scientific realities.

You're kidding me right? Yanking my Christian chain? You do know you are preaching natural understanding from science rather than the power and spiritual things of God, right? That stuff began in the 1800's among certain Christian circles. You are changing the definition of resurrection from the dead into something that has no Bible for it, so that the limited science of man is satisfied. You've been quoting scientific theory and no Bible to offer an alternative version to resurrection from the dead. I've offered several verses of the Bible that say it is the dead body that lives again out of the dust and graves.

Since our persons and souls are raised up again to life, would you say we receive new souls, so that the old souls disintegrate like the old bodies?

 

[ewq1938]

You are saying that the resurrection of the dead is not that of our dead bodies. You say it is a different body. A spiritual one created new without any connection to our mortal bodies. When do we receive them?

This is long but will answer those questions.


The living are raptured up to be together with Christ and the resurrected saints that came with Him. The dead saints aren't brought up from the Earth because they are in heaven and Christ brings them with him! The Resurrection occurs in heaven not the Earth.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.
Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

He speaks of the mortal body being dissolved and a new body that is waiting in heaven. Clearly that is not bringing the dissolved body back to life and changing it which would eliminate the need for the new body in heaven that he mentions.

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrected body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead saints that resurrect are not brought to Jesus in a rapture but are brought with Jesus before the rapture even begins. That's a very important thing to recognize. Only those living saints are raptured and brought to Jesus and those he brought with him from heaven.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jesus comes WITH his resurrected saints and then the living saints are raptured up to meet them.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The saints and angels make up the heavenly army that comes from heaven.

Jesus does NOT come alone, and does NOT rapture up the resurrected saints, and then has a second rapture of the living saints. There is only ONE rapture and it is only for those that hadn't died!



1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Again, something awaits us in heaven. Is it not the new glorified body given in a heavenly resurrection?


If scripture interprets scripture then I submit:

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Though Jesus was a carpenter's son, I do not believe he is literally speaking of building a house in heaven for us but this being a reference to what 2 Corinthians 5:1 touches upon, a new body in heaven.

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

A mortal body is sown but a different body is what shall be received.


So, when it's time for second coming all the dead saints in heaven who are bodiless spirits will resurrect physically in heaven into the immortal body that was in heaven, then Christ will descend and the resurrected saints will follow Him, and when they reach the clouds above the Earth the living saints will be changed into immortal beings, then will be "caught up" in the Rapture to meet Christ and the heavenly saints and Christ will descend to his Earthly destination and all the will follow Him.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

G4862
s?´?
sun
soon
A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than G3326 or G3844), that is, by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.: - beside, with. In compounds it has similar applications, including completeness.
Total KJV occurrences: 125


Since the Greek word G4862 "sun" means "union" the verse can be understood as:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together to have union/be united with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That makes sense since Christ brings the resurrected with him from heaven and that the resurrection bodies are already in heaven according to Paul. There is nothing that places the resurrected dead on the Earth at the time of the rapture.



The order of events is:


1. the 7th trump sounds

2. Christ leaves heaven.

3. the dead resurrect and follow Christ.

4. the dead and Christ are in clouds

5. the living change into immortals and then are raptured to the clouds to meet with "them" as verse 17 mentions.



"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together"


The ones alive will be caught up together as a group. The resurrected dead are not part of this.


"to have union/be united with them in the clouds,"


And who is the "them" that are in the clouds? It's the resurrected dead and Christ.


"to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."



I know it sounds like the living will meet with another group (the resurrected dead) and those two groups are caught up together but that isn't what the verse is talking about. It's one group being caught up to meet with another group that is already in the clouds and waiting for the living saints to arrive. Take that and add all the above scriptures speaking about the new resurrection body being in heaven and we arrive at a heavenly resurrection for the dead saints.

What all of this scripture means:


1. We know that the new body is in heaven. 2Co 5:1

2. We know the living cannot prevent/precede the dead ie: the dead will be with Christ before living will be. 1Th 4:15

3. God will make sure that Jesus brings dead with him. 1Th 4:14


That means the dead resurrect in heaven where the new body is already waiting.


The dead in Christ will be resurrected, not raptured.

The living in Christ will be raptured, not resurrected.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I've given what I believe to be proof from Paul that the resurrection of the dead is of the dead body. Daniel says the resurrection is of them in the dust of the earth, and Matthew says many bodies of saints came out of their graves with the resurrection of Jesus and walked in Jerusalem. Rev 20 says it is the dead in the sea and hell that are given up to be judged.

Those resurrected at the resurrection of Jesus had been dead only a short time, indicating they were *healed* and rose up in their old bodies. Those who rise from the dead after having been dead for years do *not* rise up in their old bodies, their old bodies having disintegrated and returned to the elements, which can no longer be identified as particles of any particular person. The energy that is lost form the decomposed body is no longer identifiable as belonging to any one person and is a pool from which other bodies can form.

Rising from the "dust of the earth" is no different from Adam being created from the "dust of the earth." In Adam's case, he was drawing upon the generic energy contained in earth's elements, and certainly not a reconstruction of a previous body identified with any person.

Saying Adam was created from the dust of the earth, or saying we will rise from the dust of the earth at the end of the age, is simply saying that we are predetermined by God to have physical, earthly bodies. The new glorified body will be different than our current physical body, but will nonetheless still be physical, earthly bodies.

But you speak of something else. You are saying that the resurrection of the dead is not that of our dead bodies. You say it is a different body.

Yes, absolutely. The word "resurrection" is a reference to the *soul,* and not to the old body. It is a refashioning of a new body for the same old person, which is why it is called a resurrection and an new glorified body, as well.

A spiritual one created new without any connection to our mortal bodies. When do we receive them? When saved? Or only after death of our bodies? Since we receive new spiritual life of the soul, is that when the new resurrected spiritual body is also recieved by the new man?

We receive an infusion of life from Christ when we choose to believe and act on his word. When we make covenant with God's word, we receive an *eternal* infusion of life from Christ, and it will never go away.

But the glorified body follows our mortal life on earth, which in the present is an experience of *grace.* That is, we receive undeserved life from Christ in our old, sinful bodies, and justify God's act of kindness by choosing to obey this new life and word, and to embrace this new covenant.

When the testimony of God's grace to us is finished, we will obtain our new immortal, sinless bodies at the return of Christ. This is the 1st Resurrection, and the resurrection of mortals who live in the Millennium will be resurrected after the Millennium. This is how I see it. You'll have to decide what makes sense to you, in the light of God's word.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Someone, called The Light, has suggested evidence from Scripture and recent past discoveries, that the antichrist beast of Rev 13, is Nimrod-Gilgamesh, made alive again by the Lord, like the dead body that touched the bones of the prophet, and Lazarus coming out of the grave.

At first, I thought it was at least a fun suggestion, while going about thinking to show it not possible. While I'm not convinced by archeological claims, I am seeing the sense of it in prophecy of Scripture.

The main thing is, I see no Scriptural proof of why not. Nothing in Scripture says that the Lord cannot bring any dead man back to life, based upon how long the body has been in the grave.

And though it is not the resurrection of the dead, which begins with the body of Abel, it still shows no time limit of bodily decay. In fact, Jesus waited four days purposely to show the body of Lazarus was indeed dead, and not just in some sort of Jewish soul-hoovering funk.

Does anyone have any Scripture plainly showing that 1st beast cannot be a long-dead man? That the Lord would never bring back to life? To have a wicked corrupter of souls live again in the flesh?

No, he's a MAN.......The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast is Apollyon, he rises from the Bottomless Pit.

 

[Always Believing]

The new body is in heaven!
Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

So our new body is already made in heaven while your living body is on earth. Have we recieved it yet while sitting in heavenly places or only after death? Can we fail to receive it if we are as the unfaithful servant doing unrighteous things?

Do you call the making of your new body the resurrection of the dead?