1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is the Trinity biblical?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by eternalarcadia, May 30, 2008.

  1. eternalarcadia

    eternalarcadia New Member

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is the Trinity a biblical concept?Come to think of it, I have never seen it mentioned in the Bible. Jesus speaks multiple times of how the he does the will of the Father in heaven and there are multiple times Jesus prays to God as well.Yes Jesus is our savior, but if he was God he would not need to pray to anyone.There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.I am not underestimating Jesus here. But why would we teach this if it's not in the Bible?
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    (eternalarcadia;50896)
    Is the Trinity a biblical concept?Come to think of it, I have never seen it mentioned in the Bible. Jesus speaks multiple times of how the he does the will of the Father in heaven and there are multiple times Jesus prays to God as well.Yes Jesus is our savior, but if he was God he would not need to pray to anyone.There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.I am not underestimating Jesus here. But why would we teach this if it's not in the Bible?
    It's there in the bible alright... Ever heard of the word Godhead? The word Godhead is in there 3 times. Lord Jesus Christ is God. (John 1:1, John 10:30, I John 5:7) And this God was made flesh (John 1:14) and God plays different roles.
     
  3. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    (eternalarcadia;50896)
    Is the Trinity a biblical concept?Come to think of it, I have never seen it mentioned in the Bible. Jesus speaks multiple times of how the he does the will of the Father in heaven and there are multiple times Jesus prays to God as well.Yes Jesus is our savior, but if he was God he would not need to pray to anyone.There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.I am not underestimating Jesus here. But why would we teach this if it's not in the Bible?
    You've heard it mentioned in the Bible... you just haven't heard that word in the Bible. Trinity is simply a name that we give to the mysterious nature of God described in the Bible (God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son).
     
  4. jtartar

    jtartar New Member

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    (eternalarcadia;50896)
    Is the Trinity a biblical concept?Come to think of it, I have never seen it mentioned in the Bible. Jesus speaks multiple times of how the he does the will of the Father in heaven and there are multiple times Jesus prays to God as well.Yes Jesus is our savior, but if he was God he would not need to pray to anyone.There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.I am not underestimating Jesus here. But why would we teach this if it's not in the Bible?
    eternalarcadia, Any time you want to make sure of your beliefs, you need to consult a concordance. Youngs and Strongs are the two most used, because they are based on the KJV of the Bible. First, you must gather all the information together, analyze the material, then form a theory, then check the theory to make sure it takes into account all the information you have gathered, and does not contradict any scripture. Since the word TRINITY is not in the Bible, you shouls look up what is said about the ones mentioned as being part of the TRINITY, God, whose personal or proper name is Jehovah. Jehovah and Jesus are both called Lord. This fact makes it rather confusing, in most Bibles. In the original scriptures God's name Jehovah was written as the Tetragrammaton, YHWH or JHVH. This made the distinction much easier to determine. Look up the Holy Spirit, also called, Paraclete, helper, etc. This study is time consuming, but if you really want to know the truth, it is well worth the time. I have done this and I have not found a single scripture that supports the idea of a TRINITY. If you do make sure you tell me about the scripture, PLEASE!!!
     
  5. ryangrom

    ryangrom New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    John 10:30- I and My Father are oneIsa 9:6- For to us a child is born, to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.1 John 5:7- For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.John 14:8-9- Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?These verses are highly disputed in the Christian world. One group calls this the "are one delusion". You can find teachings that claim the greek proves the trinity is real...and teachings that claim the greek disproves the trinity. This is one of those things that you can study for yourself and mentally arrive at an answer but wont find anything absolutelly conclusive either way since it still involves trusting ones mans interpretations of greek words verses anothers.. I dont speak greek so I'll let them squabble over that one.. I think this is one of those answers that you will want to ask God to help reveal to you. Its kind of an important one since it effects who God really is, so its best to get this one right [​IMG]
     
  6. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    (ryangrom;50935)
    John 10:30- I and My Father are oneIsa 9:6- For to us a child is born, to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.1 John 5:7- For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.John 14:8-9- Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?These verses are highly disputed in the Christian world. One group calls this the "are one delusion". You can find teachings that claim the greek proves the trinity is real...and teachings that claim the greek disproves the trinity. This is one of those things that you can study for yourself and mentally arrive at an answer but wont find anything absolutelly conclusive either way since it still involves trusting ones mans interpretations of greek words verses anothers.. I dont speak greek so I'll let them squabble over that one.. I think this is one of those answers that you will want to ask God to help reveal to you. Its kind of an important one since it effects who God really is, so its best to get this one right [​IMG]
    Good post. Hence, why we had to make up a word (trinity) to define what is described. It's just a word... any believer who says the trinity isn't real simply doesn't understand the purpose or the word (either that, or they don't understand what God's Word says about His triune nature). It is merely a word used to describe the nature, which is sometimes confusing, of Jesus, God's Spirit, and God the Father, as one.
     
  7. ryangrom

    ryangrom New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good post. Hence, why we had to make up a word (trinity) to define what is described. It's just a word... any believer who says the trinity isn't real simply doesn't understand the purpose or the word (either that, or they don't understand what God's Word says about His triune nature). It is merely a word used to describe the nature, which is sometimes confusing, of Jesus, God's Spirit, and God the Father, as one.
    The reason we called it that is because of what trinity means. A trinity is by definition - a group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity. Three people considered as a unit. This word was durived from older words from other languages and later used by europeans as christianity's popularity rose. In my opinion, if you want to get literal about it, the trinity does exist because by definition that is exactly what the scriptures outline. What people get in the quagmire over is whether those "3 units/closelly related members" are the same being, or if they 3 seperate beings that work together as one. to put it more plainly, we all know God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit are on the same team for the same cause, but are they 3 seperate aspects of the same being or 3 seperate beings? This is what I was suggesting to get an answer from God for since it effects how you think of him in your head.
     
  8. Gareth

    Gareth New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    (jtartar;50920)
    eternalarcadia, Any time you want to make sure of your beliefs, you need to consult a concordance. Youngs and Strongs are the two most used, because they are based on the KJV of the Bible.
    Why does being based on the KJV make it better? This is something I don't understand.The more modern translations such as the NRSV use several different codexes and take into account the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran found in 1948.Yes, the Trinity is in the Bible. The word Trinity might not be in the Bible but it's concept is very strong throughout the Gospels. Infact I'll quote you some.From Jesus' words:(Matthew 28:19)
    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit
    John's Gospel says the following:(John 1:1)
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not one thing came into being.
    (John 1:14)
    And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen His glory, the glory as of a Father's only Son. full of grace and full of Truth
    (John 1:18)
    No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made Him known.
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    4
    You should look at my topic under my sig...and yes, when one compare the other bibles it does make a huge difference.
     
  10. Thomas D

    Thomas D New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are many Scriptures on the subject let’s look at a few. Mat. 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. You know God calls people and things what they are; so if God calls them sons of God, they are,or will be sons of God.In 2Cor. 6:18 God says this to those who respond to Him by coming out of this world. “I will be a Father to you and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”Now in Ro. 8:29...I want you to think Gen 1:26 while we read this...You know where God said that man was created in His likeness....You might say man was predestine to be like God.Ro.8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image {or likeness} of His Son, that He (Jesus) might be the firstborn among many brethren...And then in Heb. 2:11Jesus says He is not ashamed to callus His brothers.In Eph. 3:14-15 We are told that this Family is named after God the Father.Father? Firstborn? Sons? Daughters? Brothers? Family name? That sounds like a family to me.There is however, a damnable lie out there that nearly all professing Christians believe. It’s known as the trinity doctrine. This teachinglimits God...denies His plan for a family.The catholic encyclopedia explains it this way. (and who would know more about the trinity than the Catholics, after all they invented it) and I quote...“The trinity is unalterable forever.” That means that it’s sealed, closed, unable to grow. The article gives no biblical reason for believing it, but if you don’t believe it, you’re going to hell... I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.The trinity is a GIANT lie, that if believed, won’t let you understand the truth about God or the truth of God.When Jesus came in the flesh, He revealed the Father... In Jo. 1:18 says “No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him”. Before that time God the Father was unknown to mankind in general.Here Jesus reveals the Father, if the Holy Spirit was a 3rd individual in the Godhead, this was certainly the time to reveal him too...Don’t you think?Although the people didn’t know who Jesus was when He came in the flesh, they knew Him in the O.T. as the I am who worked with Moses and as the God who led the children of Israel 40 years in the wilderness. 1Cor. 10 speaks to this. Verse,1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloudand in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.In Jo.1 Starting in verse 1 we read...In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {this was another ideal time to tell us about this 3rd individual if it was true} In John 8 Jesus plainly says that He was the God of the O.T….It might not be as plain to people today as it was to the people He was talking to, but it was plain to them. Jo. 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” That of course being the one who called Moses from the burning bush. The I was, the I am, and the I will bei.e. the Eternal One. They knew exactly what He meant...In verse 59 they tried to stone Him for it. We need to handle God’s word with great care. There are well over 100 scriptures in the N.T. that refer to God the Father and The Son, Jesus Christ and none that mention the Holy Spirit as a 3rd person in this relationship. The greeting “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”... or something similar to this is used by Paul in Romans... 1st and 2nd Corinthians...Galatians...Ephesians...Philippians...Colossians...1st and 2nd Thessalonians...1st and 2nd Timothy...Titus...and Philemon. Similar greetings are given in James, 1st John, 2nd John...Jude...and Revelation. All of these can be found within the first 7 verses of these books.These all seem to me like ideal times to have mentioned the 3rd member of a trinity if one existed, but nothing! You reckon they forgot?In the 4th and 5th chapters of Rev. there is quite a description of “The Throne Room in Heaven.” In this description we see God on His throne, 24 elders on their thrones, 4 living creatures, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ receiving the prophecy of all prophecies. It seems every one of import was there at this most important event.Everyone that is, except the Holy Spirit. Do those who teach the trinity think his invitation got lost in the Mail or something?It should make everybody angry who loves God and his message of salvation. {that message being, that He is bringing many sons to glory}Heb. 2:10But then Satan {the father of lies} isn’t going to let a small thing like the truth get in his way.Now the trinitarian idea has been around for a long time in pagan religions, around the world.And though it had been kicked around for a short while...It didn’t really get started good in Christendom until 325 A.D. at the council of Nicaea. This council wasn’t called by the religious leaders of the day but by the Pagan Emperor Constantine. His only concern was to quell a dispute among the people, so he wouldn’t have riots on his hands. He wasn’t concerned about truth being taught in the church.The proponents of the trinitarian teaching have no truth, no facts, and no proof; only blind faith. Some cite parts of 1Jo. 5:7-8 which no reliable manuscript contains. 1Jo.5:7-8 should read 7 For there are three that bear witness the Spirit the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. {Of course they agree. The water represents our baptisms, the blood cleanses us of our sins, and God gives us His Spirit to help us along the way. All three are major factors in our conversion. Of course they agree!} The words added to 1Jo.5:7-8 were added to the margin of the Latin Vulgate in about 545 A.D. then into Greek in about 1215A.D. The added words are totally bogus. They’re meant to lead people into the false doctrine of the trinity.By the time the KJV was published, the people who worked on it were so steeped in the trinity doctrine, that they thought they’d help God out by referring to the Holy Spirit as he, or him, or himself.In Greek, as in some other languages nouns are assigned gender, although the gender assigned to something doesn’t mean that, that particular thing is male or female.It’s a grammatical thing that’s foreign to those of us who only speak English. Now in the N.T. the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God is referred to 107 times by my count and 102 are assigned the neuter status...or IT status, if you will. Five times John uses a term that was assigned a masculine gender. This word is translated “The Comforter.”On top of that, the Hebrew word used in the O.T. is assigned a feminine gender...How does that work? For 3/4 of the Bible the Holy Spirit is a female?...and then in the last 1/4 of the Bible, (because of a word use 5 times that’s assigned a masculine gender) it’s a male? I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.So basically, they have taken a few words that were added hundreds of years after the Bible was written, and 5 out of 107 references to the Holy Spirit in the N.T. that were assigned a masculine gender in Greek and built a false doctrine on it. See what I mean about Satan not letting the truth get in the way of his lies?Truth?...What truth? The political spin doctors of today couldn’t hold a candle to this guy.I hope we all treasure the basic doctrines God has given us. They are a light in this dark world...they are a high wall that protect us from the evil one.They ARE truly, perils of GREAT price.God is a family with two members at this time; God the Father and God the Son.
     
  11. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    0
    All of that probably isn't going to convince anyone. We believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and we can read that God clearly refers to Himself distinctly as a Father, a Son, and a Spirit. What you do with that, I suppose, is up to each of us to reason within ourselves, but I'm perfectly at peace referring to God as a trinity, and He can correct me in heaven if I or anyone else is wrong for suggesting it.Just a heads up though--pointing out that Satan is a liar really does nothing for an argument. I think we all agree Satan is a liar, and that Satan really has no intentions of anyone coming to serve God.
     
  12. Gareth

    Gareth New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    (thesuperjag;50946)
    You should look at my topic under my sig...and yes, when one compare the other bibles it does make a huge difference.
    The KJV is a beautiful rendition of the Bible, however I just think that it is not as accurate as the more modern literal translations such as the NRSV, as they now have a larger range of manuscripts to take a translation from.
     
  13. eternalarcadia

    eternalarcadia New Member

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand that some things may be beyond the intellect and comprehension of human beings, but I never understood why Jesus was praying to God when him and God are one --John 10:30- I and My Father are one
     
  14. SealedEternal

    SealedEternal New Member

    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    THE TRIUNITY OF MANThe Bible, without question, teaches that man has a body, a soul, and a spirit. A little simple math makes it clear that man was created a three-part being -- thus he is triune -- a trinity. This means that the three parts are distinct, yet make up the one. The Bible teaches how these parts work, with or against each other. The Bible also teaches what happens to these parts at the moment of death.THE CONFLICT OF MANThe human life is a daily conflict of deciding what to do and when to do it, and whether it is right or wrong to do it at all. Paul says in Romans 7:14, “...the law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, in bondage to sin.” The spiritual pressure on mankind is to obey God’s Law, but our body (flesh) is prone to disobedience (sin). In Galatians 5:17 the Bible states that the “flesh sets its desire against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: for these are in opposition to one another... .” Galatians 5:16 states that if you choose, as an act of your will, to obey God’s laws and “walk by the Spirit, you will not carry out the desires of the flesh.” In I Corinthians 9:27, Paul says, “I discipline my body and make it my slave...” as an act of his will. This act of the will comes from the soul part of man. The soul is that part of man that decides between what is spiritual and what is fleshly, what is right and what is wrong, and whether to give in or be strong. The Bible also teaches that a person can be weak-willed or weak in conscience (I Corinthians 8: 7-12). THE TRIUNE GODUnderstanding the trinity of man should make it simpler to understand the trinity of God, since man is made in God’s “image” and “likeness” (Genesis 1:26). We saw earlier that the Bible teaches that man has three parts -- body, soul, and spirit. God also has three parts -- body, soul, and spirit. THE BODY PART OF GODIn the Old Testament, God appeared bodily to people, such as Adam and Eve, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob, and many others. They saw His body part, but not all of Him in all His glory. God told Moses, who requested to see God’s glory, that “no man can see My face and live!” (Exodus 33:20). Yet in Deuteronomy 34:10 it says that the Lord knew Moses “face to face.” The New Testament addresses this situation in John 1:18, “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, has explained Him.” What is being stated here is that when people “saw” God in the Old Testament, they were seeing the body part of God who would become Jesus Christ. This is made clear in John 1: 1-3 and vs. 14 -- The Word is God, and with God, and became flesh. Philippians 2:6-7 refers to Jesus previously existing as the “ form of God” and “equal with God.” It then states that He “emptied Himself” and took on the “form of a bond servant,” “made in the likeness of men.” Colossians 1:15 refers to Jesus as the “image of the invisible God.” God’s Word in Hebrews 1:3 refers to Jesus as the exact representation of His (God, the Father) nature. Since Jesus is the body part of God that became “flesh” -- a man -- , and the spirit part of God is obviously the Holy Spirit, what is the soul part of God? Pretty simple, isn’t it? Of course, the soul part is the Father; and unlike sinful man, God’s three parts work in total union and agreement. ********************* The following verses from God's Word should help you see man's triune nature, and that God, being man's prototype and model, is also triune: WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT OUR SPIRITMatthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 26:41 "Keep watching and praying, that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said: "My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. Luke 8:55 And her spirit returned, and she rose immediately; and He gave orders for {something} to be given her to eat. Luke 24:37,39 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. COMPARISON OF SOUL AND SPIRIT1Samuel 1:15 But Hannah answered and said, "No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the Lord. Job 7:11 "Therefore, I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul. Isaiah 26:9 At night my soul longs for Thee, Indeed, my spirit within me seeks Thee diligently; For when the earth experiences Thy judgments The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness. Isaiah 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations. Matthew 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles. 1Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. GOD’S SPIRITGenesis 1:2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Genesis 6:3 Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." Psalms 139:7 Where can I go from Thy Spirit? Or where can I flee from Thy presence? Matthew 12:31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come. John 16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. John 16:8-15 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you no longer behold Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. John16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you. Acts 5:3,9 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they shall carry you out as well." Acts 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, I Corinthians 2:9-13 but just as it is written, "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love Him." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 1Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit; 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains (Holy Spirit) will do so until he is taken out of the way. Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 2 Peter 1:20-21 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. 1John 5:7 And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 1John 5:8 For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. JESUS WORSHIPEDMatthew 2:11 And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 14:33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!" Matthew 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. Matthew 28:17-18 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. John 9:38 And he said, "Lord, I believe. "And he worshiped Him. JESUS’ CLAIMS ABOUT HIMSELFMatthew 5:11 "Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Matthew 8:25 And they came to Him, and awoke Him, saying, "Save us, Lord; we are perishing!" Matthew 8:26 And He said to them, "Why are you timid, you men of little faith? "Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and it became perfectly calm. Matthew 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son, except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 16:24-26 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. "For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. "For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 21:5 "Say to the daughter of Zion, 'Behold your King is coming to you, Gentle, and mounted on a donkey, ..... Matthew 23:8-10 "But do not be called Rabbi; for One (the Holy Spirit) is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. "And do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. Luke 8:28 And seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What do I have to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me." Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." Luke 11:20 "But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Luke 20:41-44 And He said to them, "How is it that they say the Christ is David's son? "For David himself says in the book of Psalms, 'The Lord said to my Lord," Sit at My right hand, Until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet. "' "David therefore calls Him 'Lord,' and how is He his son?" Luke 22:19, 20 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. Luke 22:70, 71 And they all said, "Are You the Son of God, then? "And He said to them, "Yes, I am. "And they said, "What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 5:17-19 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working. "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. Jesus therefore answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. John 5:20-27 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greater works than these will He show Him, that you may marvel. "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live. "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. John 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:52 The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he shall never taste of death.' John 10:7 Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. John 11:25, 26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? " John 12:26 "If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there shall My servant also be; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him. John 12:44-46 And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. "And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. "I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness. John 14:6-9 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 14:13, 14 "And whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. John 15:4, 5 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. John 16:14, 15 "He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose it to you."All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you. John 17:1, 2 These things Jesus spoke; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee, even as Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. John 17:20 "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; John 18:37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "So You are a king? "Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." John 20:31 but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. Acts 1:8 but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth. " Acts 9:10-17 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Behold, here am I, Lord." And the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight. " But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Thy saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon Thy name. "But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake. " And Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight, and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Revelation 1:17,18 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. Revelation 22:12, 13 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My rewards with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." JESUS THE CREATORJohn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. John 1:3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. Philippians 2:5-8 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Colossians 1:13-17 For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.SealedEternal
     
  15. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    2
    (eternalarcadia;51017)
    I understand that some things may be beyond the intellect and comprehension of human beings, but I never understood why Jesus was praying to God when him and God are one --John 10:30- I and My Father are one
    Because Jesus left His throne in Heaven and came down on earth to be with the sinners. He was trapped in a finite body, and He was limited to the abilities of man. Like the rest of us, He battled fear, temptation, etc. Therefore He prayed to the Father for strength and guidance.
     
  16. Learning

    Learning New Member

    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is still confusing. Is mentioning the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit meant to refered to as the Trinity?
     
  17. Lionroot

    Lionroot New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    (eternalarcadia;51017)
    I understand that some things may be beyond the intellect and comprehension of human beings, but I never understood why Jesus was praying to God when him and God are one --John 10:30- I and My Father are one
    It is an example...
    Joh 11:14 Then Jesus said to them clearly, Lazarus is dead. Joh 11:15 And because of you I am glad I was not there, so that you may have faith; but let us go to him. ...Joh 11:21 Then Martha said to Jesus, Lord, if you had been here my brother would not be dead. Joh 11:22 But I am certain that, even now, whatever request you make to God, God will give it to you. Joh 11:23 Jesus said to her, Your brother will come to life again. Joh 11:24 Martha said to him, I am certain that he will come to life again when all come back from the dead at the last day. Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am myself that day and that life; he who has faith in me will have life even if he is dead; Joh 11:26 And no one who is living and has faith in me will ever see death. Is this your faith? Joh 11:27 She said to him, Yes, Lord: my faith is that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world. ...Joh 11:40 Jesus said to her, Did I not say to you that if you had faith you would see the glory of God? Joh 11:41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus, looking up to heaven, said, Father, I give praise to you for hearing me. Joh 11:42 I was certain that your ears are at all times open to me, but I said it because of these who are here, so that they may see that you sent me. Joh 11:43 Then he said in a loud voice, Lazarus, come out!
    Is "the Trinity" Biblical? Not in the sense that the word is in the Bible, it doesn't even show up for hundreds of years. That doesn't change the fact that Jesus is God. Jesus called himself the titles of God(Rock, Way, Light..), so if it is not true, he is a liar, and "the Trinity" becomes a non-issue.
     
  18. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    (eternalarcadia;51017)
    I understand that some things may be beyond the intellect and comprehension of human beings, but I never understood why Jesus was praying to God when him and God are one --John 10:30- I and My Father are one
    In traditional Christianity this is answered by the understanding that Jesus is both a Man and God. If one does not hold to the basics of traditional Christianity then the sky becomes the limit as far as speculation and our human imaginations go.
     
  19. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    It would be difficult for me to believe anymore that the idea of the Trinity is suddenly made up by the Church in the 4th century - it was perhaps more formalized then as the result of a stance against a particular heresy, that Jesus was but one of three "offices" of God.The Bible records God revealing himself to man, I see no reason to think the Spirit Jesus sent to guide the Church would not continue to do the same. Clearly many leaders of the early Church expressed views consistent with what later became a doctrine.Mathetes"[The Father] sent the Word that he might be manifested to the world. . . . This is he who was from the beginning, who appeared as if new, and was found old. . . . This is he who, being from everlasting, is today called the Son" (Letter to Diognetus 11 [A.D. 160]Ignatius of Antioch"Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . . . [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him" (Letter to the Magnesians 6–8 [A.D. 110]Hermas"The Son of God is older than all his creation, so that he became the Father’s adviser in his creation. Therefore also he is ancient" (The Shepherd 12 [A.D. 80]).
     
  20. Alistein

    Alistein New Member

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    In light of all the answers here why not take the most basic approach by asking God to reveal The GodHead to you. I think someone here said it best this affects the way you relate to God.
     
Loading...