Is there a recipe for discipleship?

[perrero]

Is there a recipe for discipleship?

Let’s see if we can’t find a verse that is just that, a recipe. Now we all know that the scriptures are not filled with recipes of any kind. Mind you, could the 10 commandments be called a recipe for good, honest, respectful living? Perhaps it is.

I once thought, if I was to do this kind of search, I should probably define what would be the beginnings of discipleship and what would be the end. The beginning would have to be Salvation. We can’t become a disciple of Jesus without turning our lives over to Him. And what is the end goal for a disciple of Jesus? Would it not be unconditional love, the very love of God?

So is there a verse that encompasses those two parameters, salvation and love, and then all the steps in between? Yes there is. It is found in 2Peter 1:5-7.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. NKJV

Now let’s follow the recipe.

Add to your Faith

Here it is, the beginning. Salvation requires faith. Faith in Christ and the message of the gospel is the obvious first ingredient we need. For without faith it is impossible to please Him and we know that the righteous shall live by faith. Therefore this must be the disciple’s foundation. (Rom. 1:7), (2 Cor. 5:7)

Virtue

Virtues are the core values, beliefs and attitudes we have in the depth of our heart. They are the points of a moral compass shaped from years of experience, knowledge and understanding. They are what shape our thoughts and decisions which eventually formulate our actions. These virtues, when confronted with the truth of the Gospel and the presence of the Spirit, must become malleable and if necessary changeable to fit the righteousness God wishes to establish in our hearts. (Mat. 15:17-20),
(Mat. 5:28), (Eze. 11:19)

Knowledge

The living Word of God is one of the most important things in the life of the disciple. And in this treatise, it happens to be the third ingredient. The Word will be present all through our lives but at this stage in the very beginning of discipleship it is there to hone some very rough edges, to pinpoint what needs to be changed and also comfort and encourage. (2Tim. 3:16)

Memorize, (Ps. 119:11)
Educate, (Ps. 119:82)
Meditate, (Ps. 119:15)
Obey, (Ps. 119:17)
Read, (John 8:31)
Yearn (Ps. 119:20)

Self-Control

Self-Control usually has to do with our appetites. In other words, the sin that enslaves us, that drags us down, that wants to rob us of our victory and keep us from winning the prize. When we read God’s Word it becomes a mirror to us and reveals certain things the inner struggles and sin that God expects us to follow through on. This is the process of refining gold and cleansing the secret corners of our life. It requires resisting the enemy (James 4:7), putting on the Armour of God (Eph. 6:13-15) and overcoming temptation. (1Cor. 10:13)

I am like you. I’ve been down the road of temptation. I’ve used the armor, I’ve resisted, prayed and screamed. Many times it seems that nothing is working and you’re going to give in. But wait! It is at this very moment that we need to kick in the next ingredient and that’s perseverance.

Perseverance

Romans 5:3 states that; “And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance “

When all self-control has been expended and it seems like failure is on the forefront that is when we must kick in PERSEVERANCE . When all self-control has been expended and it seems like failure is on the forefront, that is when we must kick in PERSEVERANCE. This can also be translated as endurance. Endurance can only be achieved when we realize that the battle is not ours but God’s and that the victory has already been captured at the cross. Stand firm.

Godliness

Godliness is our virtue producing fruit. When our hearts, our motives, our attitudes are driven by God’s Word it will produce the fruit of the Kingdom. These are found in Gal. 5:22-23.

At this point, everything that the disciple has been working on begins to reflect outward to others. The beauty of the fruits will begin to draw the world to “taste and see that the Lord is good”.

Brotherly Love

This ingredient can be one of the most difficult to reach. Believe it or not, we always find someone who irritates us, some brother/sister who just seems to get on that nerve. The road to perfect relationships in the Body of Christ will demand filling a lot of potholes. Nevertheless, Jesus said; “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”.

Love (Agape)

Finally, we have that perfect love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts. The Agape love that unconditionally seeks out the highest good for mankind. A love that is self sacrificing to the betterment of others. This Love becomes the end goal of our journey to discipleship. When we lay down our self-righteousness, our agendas, our masks, our pettiness, our judgemental attitudes and our desires to self-preservation, we will be able to impact this world as Christ did with His disciples and we might begin to understand what (John 15:13) means.
“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

Is this not our calling?

 

[Questor]

NO, actually it is not our calling. Our calling is to spread the gospel in a sensible manner, reflecting on the fact that only G-d is able to sacrifice anything worth having. Our lives are dross, and worthless in that kind of scale, and better put to doing something relating to brotherly kindness. It is also a lot harder to live, and give of yourself than go out of this life in a blaze of glory. Those people giving a Perfect Witness for Yeshua worldwide are mostly not doing it by dying, although that happens too often these days so that the word can go forth...but through imprisonment, loss of goods, loss of livelihood, loss of family and friends.

John 15:13 should not be taken out of context, and used this romantic, all encompassing way. Yeshua was talking about day to day persecution, and suffering it for his sake, because these men he spoke to were the Apostles, yet even so would not be facing risk of their lives immediately. However, even Yeshua did not wish those who followed him to do things in a manner to garner martyrdom...but to lay down their lives in the day to day kindness that is necessary to persuade others that we even know what we are doing as Believers. One does not endure and persevere by dying for others, but for living for them. And only by living can one bear fruit.

The word translated 'life' in your translation is incorrect...it should be soul...the laying down of your self...your inner self for others.

Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

 

[perrero]

NO, actually it is not our calling. Our calling is to spread the gospel in a sensible manner, reflecting on the fact that only G-d is able to sacrifice anything worth having. Our lives are dross, and worthless in that kind of scale, and better put to doing something relating to brotherly kindness. It is also a lot harder to live, and give of yourself than go out of this life in a blaze of glory. Those people giving a Perfect Witness for Yeshua worldwide are mostly not doing it by dying, although that happens too often these days so that the word can go forth...but through imprisonment, loss of goods, loss of livelihood, loss of family and friends.

John 15:13 should not be taken out of context, and used this romantic, all encompassing way. Yeshua was talking about day to day persecution, and suffering it for his sake, because these men he spoke to were the Apostles, yet even so would not be facing risk of their lives immediately. However, even Yeshua did not wish those who followed him to do things in a manner to garner martyrdom...but to lay down their lives in the day to day kindness that is necessary to persuade others that we even know what we are doing as Believers. One does not endure and persevere by dying for others, but for living for them. And only by living can one bear fruit.

The word translated 'life' in your translation is incorrect...it should be soul...the laying down of your self...your inner self for others.

Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

Yes, I am well aware that our calling, our Great Commission is Mark 16:15-18. But how can one make disciples of all nations if he is not one himself. And a disciple will never be without the sanctification process that I listed through 2Peter 1:5-7.
I agree with what you said about John 15:13, which exactly what I explained in that last paragraph on love (Agape). Laying down "our self" as you kindly point out is what I tried to convey when I said "When we lay down our self-righteousness, our agendas, our masks, our pettiness, our judgemental attitudes and our desires to self-preservation, we will be able to impact this world as Christ..."

I think we are on the same page here.

 

[billnc]

You wrote:

"Is there a recipe for discipleship?"

This may not be what you are looking for
but Acts 2:42 is the perfect way to run
a discipleship program.

I always used it for the discipleship part
of youth work. (Campaigners in Young Life,
if you are familiar with that.

Acts 2:42 ESV

"And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching
and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

In practical use, we would always have a snack of some sort,
play something together, I'd teach a biblical lesson and we
would pray. I would also have kids write down private prayer
requests for me on an index card, so I could pray for them
during the week.

This format fit nicely within an hour and the kids felt cared for
and I know that they grew from it.

Hope that helps.

Warmly,
Bill

 

[DPMartin]

"Is there a recipe for discipleship?"

yea, keep your eyes on Christ, not on what you think.
think about how it is that this is true:
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


therefore as we do keep our eyes toward the Lord and seek Him every time He reveals something to us we become more like Him though not in fullness like John speaks of here.


so look to the Lord in all things simple.


Pro_3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[perrero]

You wrote:

"Is there a recipe for discipleship?"

This may not be what you are looking for
but Acts 2:42 is the perfect way to run
a discipleship program.

Thanks Bill, but I guess I should have worded my OP Title differently.
Perhaps, Did you know that 2 Peter 1:5-7 is the recipe for discipleship?

 

[Questor]

Yes, I am well aware that our calling, our Great Commission is Mark 16:15-18. But how can one make disciples of all nations if he is not one himself. And a disciple will never be without the sanctification process that I listed through 2Peter 1:5-7.
I agree with what you said about John 15:13, which exactly what I explained in that last paragraph on love (Agape). Laying down "our self" as you kindly point out is what I tried to convey when I said "When we lay down our self-righteousness, our agendas, our masks, our pettiness, our judgemental attitudes and our desires to self-preservation, we will be able to impact this world as Christ..."

I think we are on the same page here.

Marvelous...I can never tell from mixed quotes...because of the difference in context, and who was referring to what in the different quotes.

I would prefer everyone added the relevant scriptures to their posts, but I know that we are not debating doctrine. I get confused easily without them.

 

[perrero]

"Is there a recipe for discipleship?"

yea, keep your eyes on Christ, not on what you think.
think about how it is that this is true:
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Thanks, but I guess I should have worded my OP Title differently.
Perhaps, Did you know that 2 Peter 1:5-7 is the recipe for discipleship?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Is there a recipe for discipleship?

Trust Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to guide you through His words as kept in the KJV to discern good and evil in these latter days where faith is hard to find so as to lean on Him all the time to help you to follow Him as His disciple.

 

[perrero]

Trust Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to guide you through His words as kept in the KJV to discern good and evil in these latter days where faith is hard to find so as to lean on Him all the time to help you to follow Him as His disciple.

Although I agree with your statement, the OP is about Discipleship and trusting alone will not produce disciples. Trusting is passive like like the beginning of Faith, but then comes virtue, the changing of attitudes (Active), then knowledge, the reading, memorizing and mining of His Word (A), followed by self-control (A), perseverance (A), godliness (A), brotherly love (A), Love (A). While fixated on Jesus, our life must be His hands and feet in action. Faith without works is dead.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Although I agree with your statement, the OP is about Discipleship and trusting alone will not produce disciples. Trusting is passive like like the beginning of Faith, but then comes virtue, the changing of attitudes (Active), then knowledge, the reading, memorizing and mining of His Word (A), followed by self-control (A), perseverance (A), godliness (A), brotherly love (A), Love (A). While fixated on Jesus, our life must be His hands and feet in action.

No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. What is impossible with men, is possible with God.

Too many believers today strive to do the best they can in following Him... and failed. Many quit, saying christianity is to hard. Many still say that they are keeping their commitment to follow Christ but are condemning others for backsliding or sinning while they give grace to themselves for doing the same thing, thinking, they know they are doing the best they can while the others had their finger crossed when they made that commitment to follow Him or that they were never saved in the first place for not repenting when they were supposed to.

So when you exhort believers to add virtue and knowledge and the fruits of the Spirit....is it by will power? Is it by self determination? Is it by the religious flesh?

Or is it by trusting Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him as they place their confidence in Him to finish His work in them to His glory?

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So... yes.. while you exhort, the believer receiving the exhortation sets that goal, but they are to ask Jesus, please help me to follow You & He will.

Faith without works is dead.

Although James was talking about faith in God's Providence and if a church verbalized that faith, they should lead by example to the poor, James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation or the faith in following Him as our Good Shepherd, BUT what James has shared in the 2 nd chapter can be applied to the faith in following Him as our Good Shepherd ( even though that was not the kind of faith James was talking about ), but not to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation because it is without works.

If a believer makes a commitment to follow Christ or a promise to be good or to do good, that is all on him to keep it as that commitment, promise, or whatever bondage he makes to the Lord to do something, it is to his own glory, not the Lord's, if he keeps it. He cannot for by that commitment is the knowledge of sin and saying that one has kept it following Jesus is bearing false testimony as if he has never sinned since the making of that commitment. Thus bearing false testimony is also breaking the commitment to follow Christ.

We cannot look to ourselves in following Jesus. We have to deny ourselves as being able to... pick up the cross daily and thus it is not we who love but Christ Who lives in us AND He will help us to follow Him by faith alone as it is written that the just shall live by faith in Him & all His promises to us.

So in that respect.... the believer's commitment to follow Christ is a testimony of him resorting to his own power and denying the faith in Him as being enough to follow Him by. That would be an example of faith without works when one resort to religious works that voids faith in Him as their Good Shepherd. Those in bondage can ask Jesus for forgiveness, and to be set free from all bondages that are His to finish & to rely on Him all the time for following Him.

So when someone ask you "how can I add virtue?" ... just say trust Jesus Christ to help you to do this for He will finish His work in you to His glory.

 

[eldios]

Is there a recipe for discipleship?

Let’s see if we can’t find a verse that is just that, a recipe. Now we all know that the scriptures are not filled with recipes of any kind. Mind you, could the 10 commandments be called a recipe for good, honest, respectful living? Perhaps it is.

I once thought, if I was to do this kind of search, I should probably define what would be the beginnings of discipleship and what would be the end. The beginning would have to be Salvation. We can’t become a disciple of Jesus without turning our lives over to Him. And what is the end goal for a disciple of Jesus? Would it not be unconditional love, the very love of God?

So is there a verse that encompasses those two parameters, salvation and love, and then all the steps in between? Yes there is. It is found in 2Peter 1:5-7.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. NKJV

Now let’s follow the recipe.

Add to your Faith

Here it is, the beginning. Salvation requires faith. Faith in Christ and the message of the gospel is the obvious first ingredient we need. For without faith it is impossible to please Him and we know that the righteous shall live by faith. Therefore this must be the disciple’s foundation. (Rom. 1:7), (2 Cor. 5:7)

Virtue

Virtues are the core values, beliefs and attitudes we have in the depth of our heart. They are the points of a moral compass shaped from years of experience, knowledge and understanding. They are what shape our thoughts and decisions which eventually formulate our actions. These virtues, when confronted with the truth of the Gospel and the presence of the Spirit, must become malleable and if necessary changeable to fit the righteousness God wishes to establish in our hearts. (Mat. 15:17-20),
(Mat. 5:28), (Eze. 11:19)

Knowledge

The living Word of God is one of the most important things in the life of the disciple. And in this treatise, it happens to be the third ingredient. The Word will be present all through our lives but at this stage in the very beginning of discipleship it is there to hone some very rough edges, to pinpoint what needs to be changed and also comfort and encourage. (2Tim. 3:16)

Memorize, (Ps. 119:11)
Educate, (Ps. 119:82)
Meditate, (Ps. 119:15)
Obey, (Ps. 119:17)
Read, (John 8:31)
Yearn (Ps. 119:20)

Self-Control

Self-Control usually has to do with our appetites. In other words, the sin that enslaves us, that drags us down, that wants to rob us of our victory and keep us from winning the prize. When we read God’s Word it becomes a mirror to us and reveals certain things the inner struggles and sin that God expects us to follow through on. This is the process of refining gold and cleansing the secret corners of our life. It requires resisting the enemy (James 4:7), putting on the Armour of God (Eph. 6:13-15) and overcoming temptation. (1Cor. 10:13)

I am like you. I’ve been down the road of temptation. I’ve used the armor, I’ve resisted, prayed and screamed. Many times it seems that nothing is working and you’re going to give in. But wait! It is at this very moment that we need to kick in the next ingredient and that’s perseverance.

Perseverance

Romans 5:3 states that; “And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance “

When all self-control has been expended and it seems like failure is on the forefront that is when we must kick in PERSEVERANCE . When all self-control has been expended and it seems like failure is on the forefront, that is when we must kick in PERSEVERANCE. This can also be translated as endurance. Endurance can only be achieved when we realize that the battle is not ours but God’s and that the victory has already been captured at the cross. Stand firm.

Godliness

Godliness is our virtue producing fruit. When our hearts, our motives, our attitudes are driven by God’s Word it will produce the fruit of the Kingdom. These are found in Gal. 5:22-23.

At this point, everything that the disciple has been working on begins to reflect outward to others. The beauty of the fruits will begin to draw the world to “taste and see that the Lord is good”.

Brotherly Love

This ingredient can be one of the most difficult to reach. Believe it or not, we always find someone who irritates us, some brother/sister who just seems to get on that nerve. The road to perfect relationships in the Body of Christ will demand filling a lot of potholes. Nevertheless, Jesus said; “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”.

Love (Agape)

Finally, we have that perfect love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts. The Agape love that unconditionally seeks out the highest good for mankind. A love that is self sacrificing to the betterment of others. This Love becomes the end goal of our journey to discipleship. When we lay down our self-righteousness, our agendas, our masks, our pettiness, our judgemental attitudes and our desires to self-preservation, we will be able to impact this world as Christ did with His disciples and we might begin to understand what (John 15:13) means.
“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

Is this not our calling?

Amos 8
11: "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land; not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
12: They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it.

That's because they think the Bible is the word of the Lord.

 

[perrero]

Too many believers today strive to do the best they can in following Him...and failed

Because some fail doesn't mean all fail. Tell me you, are you not striving to do your best for Him? Are you failing or winning? Probably winning because you trust in Him, as you so emphatically point out, but also because you DO what He commands you to DO, as I have pointed out. I agree that trust in Jesus is essential but also is obedience. You seem to say that only trust is necessary for winning. Jesus didn't just trust the Father, He acted on everything the Father told Him to DO. The verse in the OP is about things that need to be DONE in order to achieve the goal of discipleship. This does not negate having to trust in Jesus. Does Paul the apostle have to mentioned at the end of every one of his exhortations that we must not forget to trust in Him so that you can assured that what is put forth is true? It's time to get off your high horse.

So when you exhort believers to add virtue and knowledge and the fruits of the Spirit....is it by will power? Is it by self determination? Is it by the religious flesh?
Or is it by trusting Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him as they place their confidence in Him to finish His work in them to His glory

by will power? Is it by self determination? Is it by the religious flesh? Where do get that I said that or even intimate that? Once again, using your words, "Trusting in Jesus" should make you open to His spirit within, who will point out the things, attitudes, virtues that need to be changed. And when He does point things out, we have a responsibility to conform to those new virtues and to die to the old ones in the power and authority He has given us. Trusting Jesus will not open our Bible and stick it under our eyes because Jesus wants us to gain knowledge. We still have to GO out and get that knowledge by picking up His word ourselves, just like the Israelites had to GO out and get their daily Manna. Trusting is one thing and doing is another and they go hand in hand. Man! I feel I'm teaching a week old Christian.

 

[perrero]

That's because they think the Bible is the word of the Lord.

Sorry, but anybody who believes in that statement shouldn't be in this Forum as it is for Christians only.
I will not be having a conversation with you.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Because some fail doesn't mean all fail. Tell me you, are you not striving to do your best for Him? Are you failing or winning? Probably winning because you trust in Him, as you so emphatically point out, but also because you DO what He commands you to DO, as I have pointed out. I agree that trust in Jesus is essential but also is obedience. You seem to say that only trust is necessary for winning. Jesus didn't just trust the Father, He acted on everything the Father told Him to DO. The verse in the OP is about things that need to be DONE in order to achieve the goal of discipleship. This does not negate having to trust in Jesus. Does Paul the apostle have to mentioned at the end of every one of his exhortations that we must not forget to trust in Him so that you can assured that what is put forth is true? It's time to get off your high horse.

Only those who boast of obedience are on the high horse, but my trust is in him to keep me from falling & present me faultless to His glory.

The obedience called for in the N.T. is to continue to believe in Him for all and every thing. It is not about believing in yourself as able to obey Him.

by will power? Is it by self determination? Is it by the religious flesh? Where do get that I said that or even intimate that? Once again, using your words, "Trusting in Jesus" should make you open to His spirit within, who will point out the things, attitudes, virtues that need to be changed. And when He does point things out, we have a responsibility to conform to those new virtues and to die to the old ones in the power and authority He has given us. Trusting Jesus will not open our Bible and stick it under our eyes because Jesus wants us to gain knowledge. We still have to GO out and get that knowledge by picking up His word ourselves, just like the Israelites had to GO out and get their daily Manna. Trusting is one thing and doing is another and they go hand in hand. Man! I feel I'm teaching a week old Christian.

I know that when He points something out to me; I ask Him to help me to do it. And that is pleasing to Him, because that is what He wants me to do as a child would do; lean on Him for everything.

 

[perrero]

I know that when He points something out to me; I ask Him to help me to do it. And that is pleasing to Him, because that is what He wants me to do as a child would do; lean on Him for everything.

Did you notice in your quote, I highlighted it for you? ME to DO it = OBEDIENCE If you do not DO what he pointed out to you then you are walking in disobedience. You still have to lean on Him, but you still have to do. Now if you do not believe in obedience, just say so and stop being argumentative.
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion (disobedience) is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

 

[eldios]

Sorry, but anybody who believes in that statement shouldn't be in this Forum as it is for Christians only.
I will not be having a conversation with you.

There are many Christians who know the Bible is not the Word of God that gives life experiences to all created men. How can a book give life to anyone?

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Did you notice in your quote, I highlighted it for you? ME to DO it = OBEDIENCE If you do not DO what he pointed out to you then you are walking in disobedience. You still have to lean on Him, but you still have to do. Now if you do not believe in obedience, just say so and stop being argumentative.
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion (disobedience) is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Philippians 3:1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

I do not look to my doing things as a form of obedience. I believe Him which is how I am following Him. My doing anything is by His power; not my willful obedience; not my doing; since it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me so that when I see myself following Him and doing those things He has taught, it is because I believe Him in being my Good Shepherd. When I sin, I ask for forgiveness and ask for help not to do it again, but that credit & focus of how I am doing anything right or good, I give to the Lord for I am the work of His hands.

We can choose this day to follow Christ & serve Him, but there is no power in that decision that we can lay claim to when we are not the one living, but Christ Who lives in us. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith; not by willful obedience, but by Him.

 

[perrero]

I do not look to my doing things as a form of obedience. I believe Him which is how I am following Him. My doing anything is by His power; not my willful obedience; not my doing; since it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me so that when I see myself following Him and doing those things He has taught, it is because I believe Him in being my Good Shepherd. When I sin, I ask for forgiveness and ask for help not to do it again, but that credit & focus of how I am doing anything right or good, I give to the Lord for I am the work of His hands.

We can choose this day to follow Christ & serve Him, but there is no power in that decision that we can lay claim to when we are not the one living, but Christ Who lives in us. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith; not by willful obedience, but by Him.

OK, argumentative or obtuse take your pick. Keep on doing what you do, every day you get up and choose to follow Christ, don't tell me that is not a conscious decision on your part to follow Him. That is doing what He would have you do. Jesus never forced you to make that choice. It's called free will and free will doesn't disappear the moment you become a Christian. This is true, the just shall live by faith. But faith produces fruit and a tree without fruit is useless, only good for firewood. Your life of faith and obedience produces fruit. In the end your fruit will be judged, wood, hay, stubble or gold, silver and precious stones BUT nevertheless you will be saved because of your faith.

but there is no power in that decision that we can lay claim to when we are not the one living

You are not the one living? Should I be calling you Jesus when I meet you on the street? Did you lose your mind, your personality, talents when you became a Christian? Christ doesn't erase who you are at salvation. The Spirit takes up residence in your heart and begins the process of cleaning up the garbage we have been carrying for so long. He reveals to us the Truth through His small voice, through His Word and in prayer. This in turn convicts us and demands a choice. Either we die to ourselves, our ego, our agendas and follow His path and instructions or we don't and keep living in sin and disobedience. Does your choice have any power? Sure it does, it changes the course of your life. Does your choice have any merit? None whatsoever. We are not saved because of obedience. We are saved by grace through faith. Nevertheless, each choice of obedience we make to follow Him and His demands (sounds hard but His burden is light) were made because of our faith and trust in him. Surely you agree with this.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

OK, argumentative or obtuse take your pick. Keep on doing what you do, every day you get up and choose to follow Christ, don't tell me that is not a conscious decision on your part to follow Him. That is doing what He would have you do. Jesus never forced you to make that choice. It's called free will and free will doesn't disappear the moment you become a Christian.

Free will does not mean you have the power to carry out your decision. I may choose to follow the Lord, but I am doing what He had asked me to do and that is to trust Him to help me to follow Him. That is how I get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when I see Him helping me to follow Him.

One time, I had read something from the Daily Bread or the Upper Room where the statement at the bottom posed the question; decide this day Whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name. There was a sense of urgency about this; I did not know why and so I said out loud "You, of course," but the sense of urgency remained. Then I said "Please help me to do this" and that sense of urgnecy was replaced with His peace.

About a week later, I was on vacation to another state to visit my Aunt with my folks. My aunt's community church just had a supernatural phenomenon that had happened in her church the Sunday prior as the church showed the video to us of what had happened. A guest was trying to give a sermon on the tragedy of Samson & Delilah but he did not get far as he began to smirk, giggle, then laugh a little at various times within that short interval and pretty soon, the congregation was doing it too, and then he laughed our loud, calling every body forward saying, I do not know what the Holy Spirit is doing , but come forward.." to that effect. Those that came forward were all laughing and could not stop laughing. Some fell down and did some body twitching and stuff. That was the end of the video.

So then comes the service where the pastor allowed several young members to relay their personal experience of the "Holy Spirit" coming over them, and he did his own speech that went kind of like this "I do not know what the Holy Spirit is doing, but man must move out of the way, and the Holy Spirit will move in."

Yeah.. I know. Sounds like new age mentality or the rudiment thereof.

After calling people to come forward, my Dad left. Mom stayed because it was her sister's church as they both remained. I stood there wondering about all of this ( yeah.. I know. I did not connect that warning from the Lord to this crisis of faith upon me. ) and then I felt a hand pushed me from behind on my shoulder. I looked back to see no one was there to have done that. Then it happened two more times. Then I was thinking, Lord? Did you want me to go forward and ask for healing? No answer. So I went forward, and that one guy pushed me and I fell back from him pushing me on my forehead while another ( maybe two ) catch me and lower me to the floor. I was on the floor briefly because I was not healed and I had gotten up mad for I was asking for healing on my deaf ear and the tinnitus in my right ear.

When I had marched from the church to my aunt's house where we were staying, I happened upon a newsletter from David Wilkerson where the main article was about the role of the Holy Spirit how He will always keep the spotlight on the Son to testify of Him in seeking His glory. That was when I knew that phenomenon was not of Him. I was not on solid ground yet but I did preach against it to my aunt and her family that the Holy Spirit is in me and whatever is outside of us is the spirit of the antichrist. Later on, I learned from the Lord that because the Holy Spirit is in us, any spirit that comes over us is not the Holy Spirit as 1 John 4:1-6 was teaching believers about in not believing every spirit but test them. More scripture came along to expose other works of darkness like this another baptism with the Holy Ghost that comes with evidence of tongues but Ephesians 4:4-6 opposes that whereas some are preaching in this forum that believers do not receive the Holy Spirit at salvation, but later on in life with evidence of tongues, but Romans 8:9 opposes that while both call is reproved by 2 Corinthians 11;1-4 as preaching another spirit to receive..

Anyway,.... see how unaware I was in the face of spirit of the antichrist? The Lord kept me from falling for it to serve that "holy laughter movement" in seeking the glory of that movement instead of preaching the Lord Jesus Christ & Him crucified. That is Him being faithful as my Good Shepherd and so regardless of my decision, I trusted Him to help me serve Him and Him only in seeking His glory.

This is true, the just shall live by faith. But faith produces fruit and a tree without fruit is useless, only good for firewood. Your life of faith and obedience produces fruit. In the end your fruit will be judged, wood, hay, stubble or gold, silver and precious stones BUT nevertheless you will be saved because of your faith.

True, but better to trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd now in getting us ready before the Bridegroom comes so as to be received.

You are not the one living? Should I be calling you Jesus when I meet you on the street? Did you lose your mind, your personality, talents when you became a Christian? Christ doesn't erase who you are at salvation. The Spirit takes up residence in your heart and begins the process of cleaning up the garbage we have been carrying for so long. He reveals to us the Truth through His small voice, through His Word and in prayer. This in turn convicts us and demands a choice. Either we die to ourselves, our ego, our agendas and follow His path and instructions or we don't and keep living in sin and disobedience. Does your choice have any power? Sure it does, it changes the course of your life. Does your choice have any merit? None whatsoever. We are not saved because of obedience. We are saved by grace through faith. Nevertheless, each choice of obedience we make to follow Him and His demands (sounds hard but His burden is light) were made because of our faith and trust in him. Surely you agree with this.

I had made a commitment to follow Christ and I was doing the best I can and failing miserably. I had quit being a deacon twice for feeling like a fraud. One day I came across a pamphlet to address the words of my mouth and by the scriptures, I was convicted because I had developed a habit to cuss outloud in the warehouse when no one else was around. The back page of that pamphlet led me to make a covenant with my mouth. The very next day, I was worse than I ever was before. A voice in my head said that I was not His for if I was His, He would have helped me to keep my covenant. I stopped listening to the devil, but I was still at my wits' end. I had asked the Lord why He was not helping me for I said that YOU knew I do not want to do this. I heard Him inside of me say.. not audibly, but I did hear Him say "You made the covenant. You said you were going to do it. I made the Covenant and said I was going to do it. All I ask from you is to believe n Me."

When Promise Keepers came into the valley, I trued to warn them. One of the 2 Bible studies I went to, one, a Catholic Mason said, "Isn't a commitment to follow Christ like a promise? Sure it is." That was then I knew what I was doing wrong the whole time. Then I confessed that I will no longer be under that commitment to follow Christ and somewhat said that I will believe in Him to help me follow Him.

So the Lord forgiven me of all those religious bondages and had set me free to rest in Him & all His promises to me in helping me follow Him. That is why it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me is how I am following Him by faith alone.