Isaiah 14:1-11 and 26 shows that those in the grave are alive.

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The Learner

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Isaiah 14:1-11 and 26 shows that those in the grave are alive.

Some Sadducees Try to Trick Jesus
23 That same day some Sadducees came to Jesus. (Sadducees believe that no one will rise from death.) The Sadducees asked Jesus a question. 24 They said, “Teacher, Moses told us that if a married man dies and had no children, his brother must marry the woman. Then they will have children for the dead brother.[a] 25 There were seven brothers among us. The first brother married but died. He had no children. So his brother married the woman. 26 Then the second brother also died. The same thing happened to the third brother and all the other brothers. 27 The woman was the last to die. 28 But all seven men had married her. So when people rise from death, whose wife will she be?”

29 Jesus answered, “You are so wrong! You don’t know what the Scriptures say. And you don’t know anything about God’s power. 30 At the time when people rise from death, there will be no marriage. People will not be married to each other. Everyone will be like the angels in heaven. 31 Surely you have read what God said to you about people rising from death. 32 God said, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So they were not still dead, because he is the God only of living people.”

33 When the people heard this, they were amazed at Jesus’ teaching.

Which Command Is the Most Important?
34 The Pharisees learned that Jesus had made the Sadducees look so foolish that they stopped trying to argue with him. So the Pharisees had a meeting. 35 Then one of them, an expert in the Law of Moses, asked Jesus a question to test him. 36 He said, “Teacher, which command in the law is the most important?”

37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and most important command. 39 And the second command is like the first: ‘Love your neighbor[d] the same as you love yourself.’[e] 40 All of the law and the writings of the prophets take their meaning from these two commands.”

Is the Messiah David’s Son or David’s Lord?
41 So while the Pharisees were together, Jesus asked them a question. 42 He said, “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

The Pharisees answered, “The Messiah is the Son of David.”

43 Jesus said to them, “Then why did David call him ‘Lord’? David was speaking by the power of the Spirit. He said,

Show everyone the text that says they already rose from the Dead?

Matthew 27:51-53
Easy-to-Read Version
51 When Jesus died, the curtain in the Temple was torn into two pieces. The tear started at the top and tore all the way to the bottom. Also, the earth shook and rocks were broken. 52 The graves opened, and many of God’s people who had died were raised from death. 53 They came out of the graves. And after Jesus was raised from death, they went into the holy city, and many people saw them.

The O.T. saints did not physically raise from the dead until a few chapters after what he said about them. Thus, he knew they were alive in Sheol.

Isaiah 14:1-11
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.

The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.

Me: the text cleary says the dead in the grave are alive like us. They are awake and asleep like we on earth are. They do not know what is going on on the surface of the earth. Ecc 9


Isaiah 26

19 But the Lord says,
“Your people have died,
but they will live again.
The bodies of my people
will rise from death.
Dead people in the ground,
stand and be happy!

The dew covering you is like
the dew sparkling in the light of a new day.
It shows that a new time is coming,
when the earth will give birth to the dead who are in it.”

Me: Thanks for bringing this text to my attention~! It shows clearly that those in the grave are alive like we are.
 

Taken

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Me: Thanks for bringing this text to my attention~! It shows clearly that those in the grave are alive like we are.
A body’s life is it’s BLOOD.
A person’s life is a living body with a living soul IN the body.
ALL body’s MUST DIE, God requires it.
Gen 9:5
Dead body’s KNOW NOTHING.
Ecc 9:5
Living souls depart the dead body and continue living until Judgement Day.
A departed Saved soul resides in Heaven.
A departed UnSaved soul resides in Hell.
On Judgement day, the Life IN THE SOUL (which is Gods Breath) will remain in a Saved soul.
On Judgement day, the Life IN HE SOUL in an UNSAVED SOUL, shall leave the soul and return to God and the lifeless body and lifeless soul destroyed and forgotten.
 
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Robert Gwin

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Isaiah 14:1-11 and 26 shows that those in the grave are alive.

Some Sadducees Try to Trick Jesus
23 That same day some Sadducees came to Jesus. (Sadducees believe that no one will rise from death.) The Sadducees asked Jesus a question. 24 They said, “Teacher, Moses told us that if a married man dies and had no children, his brother must marry the woman. Then they will have children for the dead brother.[a] 25 There were seven brothers among us. The first brother married but died. He had no children. So his brother married the woman. 26 Then the second brother also died. The same thing happened to the third brother and all the other brothers. 27 The woman was the last to die. 28 But all seven men had married her. So when people rise from death, whose wife will she be?”

29 Jesus answered, “You are so wrong! You don’t know what the Scriptures say. And you don’t know anything about God’s power. 30 At the time when people rise from death, there will be no marriage. People will not be married to each other. Everyone will be like the angels in heaven. 31 Surely you have read what God said to you about people rising from death. 32 God said, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So they were not still dead, because he is the God only of living people.”

33 When the people heard this, they were amazed at Jesus’ teaching.

Which Command Is the Most Important?
34 The Pharisees learned that Jesus had made the Sadducees look so foolish that they stopped trying to argue with him. So the Pharisees had a meeting. 35 Then one of them, an expert in the Law of Moses, asked Jesus a question to test him. 36 He said, “Teacher, which command in the law is the most important?”

37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and most important command. 39 And the second command is like the first: ‘Love your neighbor[d] the same as you love yourself.’[e] 40 All of the law and the writings of the prophets take their meaning from these two commands.”

Is the Messiah David’s Son or David’s Lord?
41 So while the Pharisees were together, Jesus asked them a question. 42 He said, “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

The Pharisees answered, “The Messiah is the Son of David.”

43 Jesus said to them, “Then why did David call him ‘Lord’? David was speaking by the power of the Spirit. He said,

Show everyone the text that says they already rose from the Dead?

Matthew 27:51-53
Easy-to-Read Version
51 When Jesus died, the curtain in the Temple was torn into two pieces. The tear started at the top and tore all the way to the bottom. Also, the earth shook and rocks were broken. 52 The graves opened, and many of God’s people who had died were raised from death. 53 They came out of the graves. And after Jesus was raised from death, they went into the holy city, and many people saw them.

The O.T. saints did not physically raise from the dead until a few chapters after what he said about them. Thus, he knew they were alive in Sheol.

Isaiah 14:1-11
Easy-to-Read Version
Israel Will Return Home
14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon
4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:

The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.

The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.

Me: the text cleary says the dead in the grave are alive like us. They are awake and asleep like we on earth are. They do not know what is going on on the surface of the earth. Ecc 9


Isaiah 26

19 But the Lord says,
“Your people have died,
but they will live again.
The bodies of my people
will rise from death.
Dead people in the ground,
stand and be happy!

The dew covering you is like
the dew sparkling in the light of a new day.
It shows that a new time is coming,
when the earth will give birth to the dead who are in it.”

Me: Thanks for bringing this text to my attention~! It shows clearly that those in the grave are alive like we are.
Strange, the Bible teaches the dead know nothing, what hope can we have from a book you say contradicts itself sir?
 

Davy

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Strange, the Bible teaches the dead know nothing, what hope can we have from a book you say contradicts itself sir?
You can ask Lord Jesus that question when you see Him, because He showed in The New Testament how the 'spirits' of those who had died in the flesh were living unto God according to the spirit (1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4).

And Apostle Paul also in 2 Corinthians 5, revealed that if our flesh tabernacle were suddenly dissolved, we still HAVE (present tense, like right now), we still have a building of God, a house not made with hands (meaning non-flesh), eternal in the heavens (i.e., the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, which is the resurrection type body).

Per Apostle John in John 4:24, he said "God is a Spirit", and that means He has NEVER existed with or as FLESH. Likewise BEFORE Lord Jesus was born through Mary's womb, HE WAS ETERNAL, WITHOUT A FLESH BODY!

So those who think the soul has to have flesh to live, and don't understand their own makeup which God created them with, i.e., a flesh body, a spirit, and a soul, only show their Biblical ignorance!
 

Robert Gwin

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You can ask Lord Jesus that question when you see Him, because He showed in The New Testament how the 'spirits' of those who had died in the flesh were living unto God according to the spirit (1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4).

And Apostle Paul also in 2 Corinthians 5, revealed that if our flesh tabernacle were suddenly dissolved, we still HAVE (present tense, like right now), we still have a building of God, a house not made with hands (meaning non-flesh), eternal in the heavens (i.e., the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, which is the resurrection type body).

Per Apostle John in John 4:24, he said "God is a Spirit", and that means He has NEVER existed with or as FLESH. Likewise BEFORE Lord Jesus was born through Mary's womb, HE WAS ETERNAL, WITHOUT A FLESH BODY!

So those who think the soul has to have flesh to live, and don't understand their own makeup which God created them with, i.e., a flesh body, a spirit, and a soul, only show their Biblical ignorance!
I am unaware of any spirit being having a soul Davy, do you know of any passage to indicate this? It is true Jehovah is a God of the living, and right now all His past servants who are in the grave are very much alive to Him, and soon they will literally be alive as well, in the resurrection.
 
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Davy

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I am unaware of any spirit being having a soul Davy, do you know of any passage to indicate this? It is true Jehovah is a God of the living, and right now all His past servants who are in the grave are very much alive to Him, and soon they will literally be alive as well, in the resurrection.
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder
of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Our makeup God created us with is:

1. soul
2. spirit
3. joints and marrow, i.e., flesh


So, I guess those who can't think for themselves have to have it spelled out to them.

1. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals one's 'spirit' goes back to God at flesh death if ever the "silver cord" is loosed. Why is a "silver cord" involved? It is pointing to the "silver cord" as what keeps our flesh and spirit together while alive on earth.

2. Lord Jesus in Matthew 10:28 revealed that the 'soul' is NOT killed if the flesh were killed. So where does it go? It goes where one's 'spirit' goes, back to God. And the 'soul' represents the actual person.

3. In 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, which I had ALREADY COVERED, Peter revealed that Jesus preached The Gospel to the 'dead' that had died back to the time of Noah, so that they could be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul taught that the RESURRECTION BODY is to a "spiritual body", NOT to another flesh body, nor to the old body in the casket.

5. In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul taught that other than our flesh body, we still have ANOTHER BODY, not made of flesh, but from God, eternal in the Heavens. That means a body made of 'spirit', because God is a Spirit, and that Heavenly dimension is one of Spirit and not flesh.

6. As Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Can't get any more simple than that.


So keep your false JEWISH SLEEP IN THE GROUND TRADITION if you want, but you will never convince a real Bible student who STAYS with God's Word AS WRITTEN.
 

The Learner

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Strange, the Bible teaches the dead know nothing, what hope can we have from a book you say contradicts itself sir?
first, I love, agape everyone because of Christ. Ecc... says the dead do not know what is going on the face of the land. Thanks Robert for input.
 
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The Learner

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My viewpoint is basically people are made up of body, soul, spirit.

 

strepho

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Luke chapter 16, Richman and Lazarus. Thiers two sides of the gulf. Paradise and sheol. The grave is sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. The saints are in paradise. Theirs gulf fixed. Neither side can cross over. Those who go to Sheol, know they messed up. They feel sadness, distress and shame. Revelation chapter 20, the spirituality dead are judged by their works on judgement day.
 
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Robert Gwin

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Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder
of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Our makeup God created us with is:
1. soul
2. spirit
3. joints and marrow, i.e., flesh


So, I guess those who can't think for themselves have to have it spelled out to them.

1. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals one's 'spirit' goes back to God at flesh death if ever the "silver cord" is loosed. Why is a "silver cord" involved? It is pointing to the "silver cord" as what keeps our flesh and spirit together while alive on earth.

2. Lord Jesus in Matthew 10:28 revealed that the 'soul' is NOT killed if the flesh were killed. So where does it go? It goes where one's 'spirit' goes, back to God. And the 'soul' represents the actual person.

3. In 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, which I had ALREADY COVERED, Peter revealed that Jesus preached The Gospel to the 'dead' that had died back to the time of Noah, so that they could be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul taught that the RESURRECTION BODY is to a "spiritual body", NOT to another flesh body, nor to the old body in the casket.

5. In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul taught that other than our flesh body, we still have ANOTHER BODY, not made of flesh, but from God, eternal in the Heavens. That means a body made of 'spirit', because God is a Spirit, and that Heavenly dimension is one of Spirit and not flesh.

6. As Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Can't get any more simple than that.


So keep your false JEWISH SLEEP IN THE GROUND TRADITION if you want, but you will never convince a real Bible student who STAYS with God's Word AS WRITTEN.
Why not just say you were unaware of it as well instead of typing all of that Davy?
 
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Robert Gwin

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first, I love, agape everyone because of Christ. Ecc... says the dead do not know what is going on the face of the land. Thanks Robert for input.
So again, what hope can one have if the Bible contradicts itself sir? The truth is, it doesn't. When it appears to, it is our understanding that is flawed.
 
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Davy

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Why not just say you were unaware of it as well instead of typing all of that Davy?
I typed what I did because you still... do not want to STAY in the written Scriptures of the evidence I showed you. The soul does NOT sleep in the ground. You are simply in DENIAL of the Scriptures because it goes against what you have been taught from MEN'S TRADITIONS.
 

Robert Gwin

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I typed what I did because you still... do not want to STAY in the written Scriptures of the evidence I showed you. The soul does NOT sleep in the ground. You are simply in DENIAL of the Scriptures because it goes against what you have been taught from MEN'S TRADITIONS.
The Bible does not contradict itself Davy, so understanding of the written word comes into play sir.