Israel kings and the temple?

[DPMartin]

2Ch 26:16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense. 17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men: 18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God. 19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.


the previous text shows God's displeasure in this case, but why is it unlawful for the king to enter the temple?

and this just may have everything to do with Jesus coming and returning.

 

[Truth]

I am not sure at this time, Most of the Kings of Israel were Anointed with oil, this may be why Uzziah did't Die straightway. All the Kohan Priests were Anointed with Oil and were also Anointed with blood, right ear lobe, right thumb, and the right big toe. they were to be of the Line of Aaron as prescribed by the temple commandments. but like David God spared him of Murder and Adultery. Jesus is already our High Priest after the Order of Melik-Zedic so he already is ordained for Temple service. I think that He will Have access to the Temple not Made with Hands, the Temple that descends from the Heavens which will be the Third and finale Temple. If and when the Jews get access to the Temple Mount in Israel, It will have to be cleansed before they can preform any services, when our savior returns, this planet will be Koshered by the Almighty, every inch of it, even the dirt will be pure. there are prerequisites to His return, this I believe is part of it, as for the Kings they were never ordained for Temple Service, although David did enter the Holy place and eat of The Show-bread and did share it with his army, so there is Mercy with God depending on the circumstances, with Uzziah he did contract Leprosy. I may not be accurate about the Priests blood anointing, I know that Aaron and His sons were. I was only thinking that that continued into the future with the replacement of Priests.

 

[DPMartin]

well the reason again is that it may have everything to do with Jesus coming and returning. as you say after the order of Melchizedek king of Salem the priest of the most high God.

note he was also king of the city that is now called Jerusalem. according to the rabbinical schools anyway. there's no reason to think that is not true. also its my understanding the same say that Melchizedek was Shem Noah's first born, he did live long enough
Shem lived 502 years after the flood and Abraham didn't die until 467 years after the flood. just a thought.

but again Jesus is King of kings but was He when He rebuilt the temple in three days? so is it that kings weren't to be in the temple because of the for shadowing of Christ or is there a more pertinent reason? the Jews expected the king, and rejected the priest.


also there is the fact that Israel would be left to their own demise until they would repent like much of the book of Judges, but a king like David or some other man would be obligated to protect the kingdom no matter the behavior of the people. if you remember Samuel was upset that they wanted a king. and the Lord told Samuel that they didn't want the Lord God to be their king.

 

[Truth]

I have reread what you have stated, and then the Scripture came to mind about the Kingship. God promised David that the Scepter, or the Throne would not depart from Judah, until Messiah Comes. all the Kings up to Solomon were I believe chosen by God, after that I am not sure. kind of like the number of Priests that held the High Priest position, they were Anointed with oil and blood, and they lived long, until Solomon's temple was destroyed. after which the number were many, and they were only Mikvaed which is immersed in water! 7 times, and that was their Anointing, and they didn't live long. Also the people wanted a King to be like the other nations, and that rely displeased God, But He allowed it! After Solomon they also went through Kings, they didn't hold that position very long.

 

[Helen]

I have nothing to add right now....but I did just want to say that I thought this was an excellent thread...really enjoyable.
Bless you both!!

 

[DPMartin]

I have reread what you have stated, and then the Scripture came to mind about the Kingship. God promised David that the Scepter, or the Throne would not depart from Judah, until Messiah Comes. all the Kings up to Solomon were I believe chosen by God, after that I am not sure. kind of like the number of Priests that held the High Priest position, they were Anointed with oil and blood, and they lived long, until Solomon's temple was destroyed. after which the number were many, and they were only Mikvaed which is immersed in water! 7 times, and that was their Anointing, and they didn't live long. Also the people wanted a King to be like the other nations, and that rely displeased God, But He allowed it! After Solomon they also went through Kings, they didn't hold that position very long.

though the Lord brought Saul to Samuel to show Samuel who to anoint king I do believe the Lord told Samuel that Saul was the "people choice" if you will, and then after Saul did what was in his own judgement of what was good in the case of letting the Israelites have the live stock after they attacked a certain people, which was not according to what was written in the Torah and what the Lord reiterated when instructing Saul to do so.

after that, David was a chosen of God, and the Lord said as much. also I'm sure you remember that the Lord had Moses write down the info on the fact that one day they would have a king. but your correct on the count of one of the reason they would have a king like other nations, but again that is an observation on their part that kings that are men are obligated to protect the kingdom no matter the behavior of the people were as the Lord would leave Israel to its own demise until they turned to Him in repentance, of which a king that is a man like them, wouldn't require such.


I don't think the anointing is the key to why kings aren't permitted in the temple, but that doesn't mean that the anointing isn't the reason, it just doesn't seem to be the issue if you know what I mean.


and chosen is through the life of, when it comes to the way of the Lord on this. after Adam God saw man through Adam, after Noah God saw man through Noah who found "Grace" in God's sight. after that God chose Abraham, not randomly mind you there is ten gen's from Adam to Noah the ten Gen's from Noah to Abraham. hence Abraham was chosen since Adam. but to continue the Israelites are seen through the life of Abraham and the distinction is there, Paul said something to the order of gentiles through faith and Jew by Faith.


Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.


the Israelites were already believers it was just a matter of acknowledgement of Christ. anyway I digress.


but in the case of David again God chose David and through the life of David did God establish to coming Christ who is King and will return in such glory. also God sees us who are born again through His Son our Lord Jesus Christ and therefore is the same that He sees us through the Life of Christ.


the connection between the king and the King the priest and the Priest is obvious, the tabernacle had to be established first which requires priesthood. a priest has a relationship with his God or he is not a priest. kings establish and maintain kingdoms not tabernacles. and in the case of those born again what is the tabernacle of the Presence of God? hence where is the Kingdom to be established without that?

 

[DPMartin]

I have reread what you have stated, and then the Scripture came to mind about the Kingship. God promised David that the Scepter, or the Throne would not depart from Judah, until Messiah Comes. all the Kings up to Solomon were I believe chosen by God, after that I am not sure. kind of like the number of Priests that held the High Priest position, they were Anointed with oil and blood, and they lived long, until Solomon's temple was destroyed. after which the number were many, and they were only Mikvaed which is immersed in water! 7 times, and that was their Anointing, and they didn't live long. Also the people wanted a King to be like the other nations, and that rely displeased God, But He allowed it! After Solomon they also went through Kings, they didn't hold that position very long.

Anyway, the tabernacle and the things therein were established by the Lord God through the priesthood beginning with Moses being Aron’s brother was also a Levite. Which included its maintenance.

The command to build or destroy the stone temples the Lord God has used kings. king David king Solomon, Nebuchadnezzar destroyed it, king Cyrus commanded the rebuilding of it, emperor Titus (I think it was him) destroyed the temple. Therefore, what will it take to rebuild it? The stone temple wasn’t built or destroyed without a king’s decree. Even today, even though there is a group in Israel prepared to rebuild the temple with all its needs therein, they can't make a move without some type of world power approval. This is on purpose for sure, but to what purpose.


But now the tabernacle that is built without human hands has been established via the priest of the Most High God. Just as the tabernacle in the desert, establishing what shall be in it, and where.

 

[liafailrock]

2Ch 26:16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense. 17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men: 18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God. 19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.


the previous text shows God's displeasure in this case, but why is it unlawful for the king to enter the temple?

and this just may have everything to do with Jesus coming and returning.

This was the inner part of the temple where the altar of incense, the table of shewbread and the lamps were where only priests were allowed to enter. In short, the King was doing the job of the priest. And beyond that only the high priest could enter the holy of holies once a year on the Day of Atonement. He had bells on his garment and a rope around him so that it God struck him dead he could be pulled out. Nobody but the high priest could enter that room with the ark in it.

Another example of a King offering sacrifice when it was not allowed was King Saul, which was one of the reasons God rejected him (plus he was from the wrong tribe destined to be Kings, i.e. he was of the tribe of Benjamin).

The tribe of Judah held the scepter, so that was the Kingly tribe.
The tribe of Levi had the priesthood, so they ministered the ordinances of the temple and sacrifices.
The tribe of Joseph, being two, held the birthright which included becoming a great nation and a multitude of nations from these genealogical people.

Christ merged the priest-King role in a new covenant as do his people, so spiritually the church I believe is likened to the tribes of Judah and Levi (Revelation 1:6). Like Judah and Levi with Israel, the church is to rule and teach people in the millennium. Later on in the millennium and beyond a greater salvation of people will occur because of the church, which is likened to Joseph and the nations that tribe physically became today. Right now people who are saved in this age are "Kings and Priests". What I said is all in your bible.

 

[DPMartin]

This was the inner part of the temple where the altar of incense, the table of shewbread and the lamps were where only priests were allowed to enter. In short, the King was doing the job of the priest. And beyond that only the high priest could enter the holy of holies once a year on the Day of Atonement. He had bells on his garment and a rope around him so that it God struck him dead he could be pulled out. Nobody but the high priest could enter that room with the ark in it.

Another example of a King offering sacrifice when it was not allowed was King Saul, which was one of the reasons God rejected him (plus he was from the wrong tribe destined to be Kings, i.e. he was of the tribe of Benjamin).

The tribe of Judah held the scepter, so that was the Kingly tribe.
The tribe of Levi had the priesthood, so they ministered the ordinances of the temple and sacrifices.
The tribe of Joseph, being two, held the birthright which included becoming a great nation and a multitude of nations from these genealogical people.

Christ merged the priest-King role in a new covenant as do his people, so spiritually the church I believe is likened to the tribes of Judah and Levi (Revelation 1:6). Like Judah and Levi with Israel, the church is to rule and teach people in the millennium. Later on in the millennium and beyond a greater salvation of people will occur because of the church, which is likened to Joseph and the nations that tribe physically became today. Right now people who are saved in this age are "Kings and Priests". What I said is all in your bible.

thing is the Lord God made of Israel many kings and priests, so what "age" are you referring to?


also the priests were always subjects to the kings but the kings were not permitted the temple even though the stone temples were always ordered by kings to be built(not the original tabernacle in the days of Moses). this difference has some significance or the rules governing the situation wouldn't exist and be enforced by God Himself.

Jesus coming into the world and establishing the tabernacle without taking the throne even though buy flesh it was His right is for a reason. and just about everything documented in scripture in the OT is some foreshadowing of things to come and when they are fulfilled are establish as written.

also the Mercy (mercy seat) and the Righteousness and Judgement (the ten commandments and the Torah) under the Mercy seat are or should be the foundation of any kings throne. but the king had no physical access. was uninvited and threatened with death if he enter.

 

[liafailrock]

thing is the Lord God made of Israel many kings and priests, so what "age" are you referring to?

The age I'm referring to was the time prior to the first coming of Christ there in Israel. Not until Messiah comes does the King have these privileges and that was made very clear in the Law of Moses. When there is a change in order as Hebrews mentions, that's when the King has those privileges. That said, notice Jesus did not actually take the earthly throne of King David yet. He's King and Priest de jure, but de facto won't be until his second coming. That makes this age what is commonly called the "church age" where he's selecting a few to rule and reign with him. This in part explains the so-called predestination vs free choice that people get all huffy about. The thing is he's only calling a few now (predestined). The rest get saved in the ages to come (when they will clearly see the Lord and can choose) e.g. the new heart and covenant that Jeremiah 31 talks about is for both the houses of Israel and Judah in the Messianic age. Just as the old testament foreshadows things in the future, the church foreshadows a greater salvation by a new covenant, hence is why the redemption of mankind is compared to the harvests and the feasts. The church is called the firstfruits. Many are thus called, few are chosen. So in a sense, the Jews are right in saying Messiah did not come yet. They are catching him the second time around. Lastly, there is the age beyond the millennium, White Throne judgement and last salvation chance for those who never heard the true gospel (that's actually their first chance if they died before the time of Christ, or as babies for example as all people will be resurrected). From there is the age of eternity.

 

[DPMartin]

sorry there liafailrock your theories maybe well thought through, or you are just making this up as you go along here, but that's a na, na na na. God's speaks and then He sees to it that it is fulfilled according to His will. not complicated at all. the work of the Lord scripturally speaking is days, such as day of the gentiles is this day. creation in six days and a day is when God speaks to what isn't and then it is, according to His will, He sees that it is good. then evening and morning was that day.

 

[liafailrock]

sorry there liafailrock your theories maybe well thought through, or you are just making this up as you go along here, but that's a na, na na na. God's speaks and then He sees to it that it is fulfilled according to His will. not complicated at all. the work of the Lord scripturally speaking is days, such as day of the gentiles is this day. creation in six days and a day is when God speaks to what isn't and then it is, according to His will, He sees that it is good. then evening and morning was that day.

Well, being the Sir Isaac Newton type, you can cross of "making this up as I go" as that implies a off-the-cuff type personality and rather I plan everything out in advance. I say what I do as I see it in scripture, although one may disagree with my interpretation. The more one uses the method I use, the more cross references and even other sources are checked, as opposed to the common way of a preconceived idea where one takes one or two scriptures to support it (without regards to other passages that contradict the theory). So, call me incorrect, but please don't put me in the category of "making this up". I am indeed in the "thought out theories" category you mentioned.

That said, I'm not sure what you are even saying here as your post is imprecise -- I need a little specification to what you are challenging. However, the subject is about Israel Kings and the temple, and I clearly stated the bible teaches that the priesthood offers the sacrifices. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with. This is in the age before Christ's first coming aka "Old Testament" age. is the time frame this thread is about since you quoted 2 Chronicles to start your thread. And just to be a little more specific, which up to this point I was forgiving, Uzziah was not King of Israel. There were other Kings of Israel reigning in that Kingdom then. He was King of Judah -- big difference.

 

[amadeus]

From my own understanding of scripture, which is limited @liafailrock , you are correct. In the law God gave to Moses, it is spelled out clearly that the tribe of Levi was special belonging to God standing for the 1st born who were spared in Egypt when the first born Egyptians died. From out of that special tribe of Levi the first priest was Aaron the brother of Moses. Only the direct descendants of Aaron were priests under that same Mosaic law. One of them at any given time was the High Priest. In the tabernacle in the wilderness according to God precise instructions [rendered in detail in the Pentateuch] there were three levels. The first level was open for the Israelites [sons of Jacob], but into the second level called the Holy Place only the priests [descendants of Aaron] could enter. Into the third level, called the Holiest of Holies or the Most Holy Place only the one serving High Priest could enter and he could only do that once during each calendar year.

No one but priests were ever allowed to make the sacrifices within the second or third levels. No one but them was even allowed to enter. These rules were put into place by God through Moses hundreds of years before Saul was made the first natural King of Israel.

All of this is seen by some [including me] to be types or shadows of what is described in the NT. As liafailrock said, Jesus is now the High Priest and he is no type or shadow, but the real thing. The sacrifices made in the OT by the priests and even by the High Priest provided only temporary relief or atonement for the sins of people. The real sacrifice which those types and shadows depicted was the sacrifice of Jesus which really did the job once and for all.

 

[DPMartin]

Well, being the Sir Isaac Newton type, you can cross of "making this up as I go" as that implies a off-the-cuff type personality and rather I plan everything out in advance. I say what I do as I see it in scripture, although one may disagree with my interpretation. The more one uses the method I use, the more cross references and even other sources are checked, as opposed to the common way of a preconceived idea where one takes one or two scriptures to support it (without regards to other passages that contradict the theory). So, call me incorrect, but please don't put me in the category of "making this up". I am indeed in the "thought out theories" category you mentioned.

That said, I'm not sure what you are even saying here as your post is imprecise -- I need a little specification to what you are challenging. However, the subject is about Israel Kings and the temple, and I clearly stated the bible teaches that the priesthood offers the sacrifices. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with. This is in the age before Christ's first coming aka "Old Testament" age. is the time frame this thread is about since you quoted 2 Chronicles to start your thread. And just to be a little more specific, which up to this point I was forgiving, Uzziah was not King of Israel. There were other Kings of Israel reigning in that Kingdom then. He was King of Judah -- big difference.

"I say what I do as I see it in scripture,"

exactly, but its not about how you see it, or I see it, its about how the Lord sees it. again if, In your opinion is important to you fine, but that has nothing to do with the Lord's view, or what the scriptures are for.

kings of Judah and or Israel weren't permitted to do things of service in the tabernacle so what. that has nothing to do with the subject at hand in the OP, does it?

 

[liafailrock]

"I say what I do as I see it in scripture,"

exactly, but its not about how you see it, or I see it, its about how the Lord sees it. again if, In your opinion is important to you fine, but that has nothing to do with the Lord's view, or what the scriptures are for.

kings of Judah and or Israel weren't permitted to do things of service in the tabernacle so what. that has nothing to do with the subject at hand in the OP, does it?

Kings of Israel were not legit since the nation split. The Lord allowed them to reign because the split was from the Lord, but this was a source of contention with Judah the same way the early colonists here in the US parted from Britain and royalty. Uzziah was of the house of David of the tribe of Judah. I just wanted to clarify that since not all Israelites are Jews or from the house of David, but all Jews are Israelites. There's two nations of God's people back then, and more now. If you want to understand how the Lord sees things and not you or me, then in order to convey that idea we have to at least understand what we are talking about. The apostle Paul did not preach in a vacuum. He was well learned and the "Albert Einstein" of the theological world which is a good reason why the Lord used him to write most of the NT. The Spirit of the Lord is what energizes a person who is likened to a musical instrument needing breath to sound. Good instruments make a better sound than broken ones.