It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

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twinc

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so why is it believed and accepted that Mary had children other than Jesus - twinc
 

Stranger

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twinc said:
so why is it believed and accepted that Mary had children other than Jesus - twinc
Because Scripture says so,.

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Born_Again

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:popcorn: Im just going to sit back and watch this one... LOL
 

twinc

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Stranger said:
twinc

Matt. 12:46-50

Stranger


it does not say so but you do - this is the cause of division, divergence, differences ,disputes etc viz misinterpretations claiming H/S inspiration and guidance - twinc
 

Stranger

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twinc said:
it does not say so but you do - this is the cause of division, divergence, differences ,disputes etc viz misinterpretations claiming H/S inspiration and guidance - twinc
Nice speech.

It clearly does say so, but you disagree. Why? Do you want Mary a perpetual virgin?

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lforrest

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How would you explain Jesus giving his mother to one of his deciples to care for if she had other sons?
 

Stranger

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lforrest said:
How would you explain Jesus giving his mother to one of his deciples to care for if she had other sons?
The very verses I gave are your answer. (Matt. 12:48-49) "But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, behold my mother and my brethren!"

Christ's brothers were not believers at this time and wouldn't be until after the resurrection. (John 7:5) "For neither did his brethren believe in him."

Christ in (Matt. 12:46-50) now severs his earthly relationships. His relationships now are based on who a person is in relation to God. Thus, Mary becomes not His mother, but a woman. (John 19:26) "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!"

So, Christ entrusted Mary into the care of John, even though she had other sons, because He knew she would be better cared for.

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twinc

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You must be joking - to the Pharisees and Sadduces this would have been a scandal of the first magnitude unless a reasonable/feasible acceptable explanation was provided which was? - twinc
 

Stranger

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twinc

Christ didn't really care about pleasing the Pharisees or Sadducees or anyone else for that matter. He simply stated what was true. (Matt.2:49-50) "And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them."

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BreadOfLife

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Stranger said:
twinc

Matt. 12:46-50

Stranger
Actually - this verse doesn't say that Mary had other children.
It simply refers to the "Adelphoi" of Jesus.

In the New Testament, "Adelphos" is applied to brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), uncle, cousin, step-sibling, kinsfolk, same tribe, and even a fellow countryman.
The SAME is true for the Greek Septuagint Old Testament.
These are the statistics of the use of Adelphois(oi) in all of its variations in the New Testament:

Cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling: 41 (12%)
Cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling: 47 (14%)
Cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does not refer to a family sibling: 256 (74%)
TOTAL occurrences of "Adelphos" and "Adelphe": 344 (100%)

The Early Church UNANIMOUSLY agrees that Mary did not have any other children.
In fact - NO Early Church writings make this claim. This is something that became popular AFTER the 16th century.
 

Stranger

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BreadOfLife

Well, Mark Twain said it best. You got three kinds of lies. First is 'lies'. Second is 'damn lies'. And third is 'statistics'. What a dog and pony show you can do with statistics.

Pay attention to the Scriptures. Throughout (Matthew 1-12)Christ's disciples were always called, 'disciples' or 'apostles'. Thus the distinction in (Matt. 12:46) is clear. It is His mother Mary, and His brothers born from Mary that are being addressed.

Else why would Christ make the distinction in (12:50) when He said, "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother"?

The only answer can be because it is His fleshly mother and brothers that were being addressed.

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BreadOfLife

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Stranger said:
BreadOfLife

Well, Mark Twain said it best. You got three kinds of lies. First is 'lies'. Second is 'damn lies'. And third is 'statistics'. What a dog and pony show you can do with statistics.

Pay attention to the Scriptures. Throughout (Matthew 1-12)Christ's disciples were always called, 'disciples' or 'apostles'. Thus the distinction in (Matt. 12:46) is clear. It is His mother Mary, and His brothers born from Mary that are being addressed.

Else why would Christ make the distinction in (12:50) when He said, "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother"?

The only answer can be because it is His fleshly mother and brothers that were being addressed.

Stranger
The Apostles and disciples are "ALWAYS" called Apostles and disciples??
Read Acts 1:15, where they are referred to as 120 ADELPHOI. These were not men from the same mother because 11 of them were Apostles and we KNOW that they weren't all related.

Your problem, as always, is that you're a Scriptural literalist and know next to nothing about 1st century Jewish culture.
There is not ONE single verse of Scripture that states Mary had "other" children. If there were - certainly you could name some of them . . .
 

Stranger

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BreadOfLife said:
The Apostles and disciples are "ALWAYS" called Apostles and disciples??
Read Acts 1:15, where they are referred to as 120 ADELPHOI. These were not men from the same mother because 11 of them were Apostles and we KNOW that they weren't all related.

Your problem, as always, is that you're a Scriptural literalist and know next to nothing about 1st century Jewish culture.
There is not ONE single verse of Scripture that states Mary had "other" children. If there were - certainly you could name some of them . . .
I just showed you the Scriptures that state that Mary had other children. (Matt. 12:46-50)

You think Mary and Joseph never had sex after they were married? You think Joseph was a perpetual virgin also? How ridiculous. Mary had sex with Joseph after Christ was born. And she did so many times. Which is why Christ had brothers. All of which was under the blessing of God. The bed is undefiled in marriage. (Heb.13:4)

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epostle1

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Luke 2 [41] Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. [42] When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. [43] After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. [44] Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. [45] When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. [46] After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. [47] Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. [48] When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."

Where are Jesus' "brothers"?
 

epostle1

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Stranger said:
BreadOfLife

Well, Mark Twain said it best. You got three kinds of lies. First is 'lies'. Second is 'damn lies'. And third is 'statistics'. What a dog and pony show you can do with statistics.

Pay attention to the Scriptures. Throughout (Matthew 1-12)Christ's disciples were always called, 'disciples' or 'apostles'. Thus the distinction in (Matt. 12:46) is clear. It is His mother Mary, and His brothers born from Mary that are being addressed.

Else why would Christ make the distinction in (12:50) when He said, "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother"?

The only answer can be because it is His fleshly mother and brothers that were being addressed.

Stranger
No, Jesus makes a unity, YOU make a distinction. His mother, bothers and sisters who do the will of God are models of faith for the rest of us who are trying. Unless you want to argue that His mother didn't do the will of God, and Jesus climbed out of an alien space ship.

None of the early reformers believed Jesus had biological siblings. It came from liberal Protestants in the 19th century. This fad theology and biblical eisegesis has been popularized in the last 50 years and has infected too many Protestant communities. It diminishes the uniqueness of the Incarnation and could cast doubts on it's truth.
For those reasons, IMO, it is a doctrine of demons.
 

Stranger

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BreadOfLife

Who is 'mother' in (Matt.12:46)?

And, was Joseph a virgin also for the rest of his marriage to Mary?

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BreadOfLife

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Stranger said:
I just showed you the Scriptures that state that Mary had other children. (Matt. 12:46-50)

You think Mary and Joseph never had sex after they were married? You think Joseph was a perpetual virgin also? How ridiculous. Mary had sex with Joseph after Christ was born. And she did so many times. Which is why Christ had brothers. All of which was under the blessing of God. The bed is undefiled in marriage. (Heb.13:4)

Stranger
Not only does Scripture disagree with you (Luke 1:34) - NOWHERE does it ever say that Mary had other kids.

You have YET to show me one, single verse . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Stranger said:
BreadOfLife

Who is 'mother' in (Matt.12:46)?

And, was Joseph a virgin also for the rest of his marriage to Mary?

Stranger
Mary is being spoken of in that verse.
She is the Mother of Jesus. Do you disagree with that??

As to whether Joseph was a virgin - the Bible never mentions this. A virgin is a person who has never engaged in sex.
There are traditions, however, that say Joseph was a widower with children of his own from a previous marriage. These very well could have been the "Adelphoi" of Jesus.
 
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