It is obvious to me.

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H. Richard

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What is obvious to me is that those that teach a child of God MUST have works to show their faith have hung the statement of James that “faith without works is dead” around the necks of those “IN CHRIST” who believe in Jesus‘ work on the cross.

To these we are just required to keep the law of good works and those works are defined by them with selected verses. Which is better, to be kind to others or to try and get them to see the salvation that Jesus paid for on the cross? Baring fruit for God isn’t a person glorifying in their own works; but glorifying Jesus' work on the cross. We are to witness to faith in Jesus’ work and not our own.

Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life? It seems to me that every time a person tries to reach out to God in faith the religious works crowd hangs the requirement of works around their neck.

I am completely aware that a child of God will be lead by the Holy Spirit to do what God wishes for them to do. But that is not what the works crowd wants. They want to determine the works others are to do. Doesn’t matter if those person’s are doing what God wants them to do.

Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions. They will not see that placing their faith in works will not save them and as Paul writes they are under a curse. Why???? Because they trample under foot the “:completed” work of Jesus on the cross.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

To me, it seems that, most can tell you about their faith in keeping commandment and picking up their cross of their works but they will not tell about their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Most who testify that they have faith in Jesus’ work on the cross are even accused, by the works crowd, of not being saved by given them derogatory labels so they can accuse them of not having a true faith.

But to us who know that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is the only way to please God will never say we earn a place with God BECAUSE of our works. Now the works crowd will say that they are doing that too. If they are doing that too then why do they give statements like easy believes?

According to Paul, when a person adds works to grace they are under a curse. I, personally do not claim any works.. Does that mean I do not do any?? Off course not! It means I place no confidence in my works. If I have any God knows it, not me.

But that is okay, I let others talk about how they keep Jesus’ commandment. But when, and if, they look into their hearts they would know they are not. I think God’s judgment on them for boasting in their own works while neglecting to boast in Jesus’ work will not bring a good out come.

But hey, that is just a person’s remarks that have been told that what I believe is totally wrong and is easy believism. So faith in Jesus’ work on the cross is just easy believism. So get out there and do your works.
 
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Episkopos

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What is obvious to me is that those that teach a child of God MUST have works to show their faith have hung the statement of James that “faith without works is dead” around the necks of those “IN CHRIST” who believe in Jesus‘ work on the cross.

To these we are just required to keep the law of good works and those works are defined by them with selected verses. Which is better, to be kind to others or to try and get them to see the salvation that Jesus paid for on the cross? Baring fruit for God isn’t a person glorifying in their own works; but glorifying Jesus' work on the cross. We are to witness to faith in Jesus’ work and not our own.

Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life? It seems to me that every time a person tries to reach out to God in faith the religious works crowd hangs the requirement of works around their neck.

I am completely aware that a child of God will be lead by the Holy Spirit to do what God wishes for them to do. But that is not what the works crowd wants. They want to determine the works others are to do. Doesn’t matter if those person’s are doing what God wants them to do.

Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions. They will not see that placing their faith in works will not save them and as Paul writes they are under a curse. Why???? Because they trample under foot the “:completed” work of Jesus on the cross.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

To me, it seems that, most can tell you about their faith in keeping commandment and picking up their cross of their works but they will not tell about their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Most who testify that they have faith in Jesus’ work on the cross are even accused, by the works crowd, of not being saved by given them derogatory labels so they can accuse them of not having a true faith.

But to us who know that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is the only way to please God will never say we earn a place with God BECAUSE of our works. Now the works crowd will say that they are doing that too. If they are doing that too then why do they give statements like easy believes?

According to Paul, when a person adds works to grace they are under a curse. I, personally do not claim any works.. Does that mean I do not do any?? Off course not! It means I place no confidence in my works. If I have any God knows it, not me.

But that is okay, I let others talk about how they keep Jesus’ commandment. But when, and if, they look into their hearts they would know they are not. I think God’s judgment on them for boasting in their own works while neglecting to boast in Jesus’ work will not bring a good out come.

But hey, that is just a person’s remarks that have been told that what I believe is totally wrong and is easy believism. So faith in Jesus’ work on the cross is just easy believism. So get out there and do your works.

You are speaking of what Jesus did. Good. But then you always give only 2 options for believers....and both of these are in the power of the flesh. You neglect the actual working of grace...which is Christ in us empowering us to do as Jesus did. THAT is not in your equation. Your gospel has no power. You limit people to what is only possible WITHOUT an anointing from God.

Can someone raise the dead by his own works? Can a person walk with God in Zion by taking a plane?

So you fully throw out the works of grace...because you espouse a false grace....that has no reality or power.

Jesus is not looking for admirers and idol-worship. He is looking for vessels He can act through.
 

bbyrd009

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Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life?
Like someone can tell you anything lol, but fwiw you have been plainly deceived into believe I guess that Eternal means immortal, and as you will not confront this imo we are done

You must have works HR, all must appear before the judgement seat, and if you think that bc some religious idiots are able to sucker some into believeing that they are between God and them, and thus more capable of determining what works they should engage in, then that is on you too, see

So all you have done is engaged in a convenient model that keeps you from any responsibility, and tied to your Nehushtan that will not save you, wadr. This is "have faith in the finished work of the cross" horse-puckey, plainly revealed when you guys get your panties all in a wad any time someone mentions

Pick up your cross and follow Me
Work while it is day
All must appear before the judgement seat
etcetc
 
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bbyrd009

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Now, will antichrists arise and try to do what you are saying? certainly. Maybe a bit more Reading about them and a bit less paying any attn to them might be in order? Who besides Christ is currently telling you that you have to do anything in particular, HR?

Do you imagine that that means you can ignore Christ on the matter?
Then bam do so.

I or anyone else can immediately tell that you are deceived bc you are convinced that you know, ok. This is a very common affliction that even we in the west have a label for now, and if you were still reading here I could even direct you to an article that plainly explains it. But you aren't here to read anything, right, you're here to run your pie hole in that same retarded, muddy track. So stay in the world where you belong and keep moaning about how it's everyone else's fault, and all anyone needs do is follow you, if you like

Or I mean join @mjrhealth and plainly state "no one has to pick up their cross and follow," and be done with it already, Jesus man
 
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bbyrd009

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Could we all just agree and let HR know that he does not have to do anything anyone else tells him, including Christian pastors, and maybe he can figure out the diff in Under the law and Obedience for himself later maybe
 
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bbyrd009

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Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong
lol, and yet you still expect to be taken seriously, right

"I am a demonstrably decieved person who knows more than the Bible authors, and hence more than God, so now let me show you what is Written, even as I demonstrate in real-time that I cannot be shown anything, ever"
 
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Episkopos

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Could we all just agree and let HR know that he does not have to do anything anyone else tells him, including Christian pastors, and maybe he can figure out the diff in Under the law and Obedience for himself later maybe

Indoctrination doesn't work that way, unfortunately. When a person latches on to a fable religiously... that fable becomes the template for everything that sounds like it. It's like Pavlov's dog. Talk about grace and watch the salivating...

But an indoctrinated person can't examine what they have accepted although untrue...otherwise they think they are lacking faith.
 
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bbyrd009

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But that is not what the works crowd wants. They want to determine the works others are to do
you are allowed to put your ear wherever you like, ok, personally I would not pay them any attention, but you seem to be consumed by them, why is that HR. Bc they are not going anywhere ok, they are as stuck as you are

see, you are just (constantly) manifesting a position of "under the law" without even realizing it I guess; you would not be preoccupied with the law and what those in the world do if you were not in the world and under the law

fwiw I do genuinely feel for you, but then you are seeking Death More Abundantly and immortality in the Elysian Fields too, right, so you are going to reap what you sow just like everyone else, me included
 
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bbyrd009

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I think God’s judgment on them for boasting in their own works while neglecting to boast in Jesus’ work will not bring a good out come.
Unfort you have as usual failed to note anyone that we know in common "boasting of their own works" or even gave a cogent example that we might follow, HR, so either say something or do not ok. No offense but you mostly speak in religious horse puckey bro
So get out there and do your works.
So get in here and address some Scripture

and see that where you put your eye ends up defining you ok. Do yourself a favor imo and stop running from your ignorance in the diff in Underthelaw and Keepingthelaw already. Forget James for now maybe and stick with Jesus' words on the matter imo. Or keep running when no one is even chasing you, idc really. Have a nice weekend
 
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BreadOfLife

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Good works are thr result of salvation. Not the cause.
Works are e necessary element of faith.

Without works you cannot have faith.
Without belief you cannot have faith.
True Faith - Belief + Works (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6, James 2:14-26).

If ALL you have is belief -= then the Bible says that you're NO better off than the DEMONS (James 2:19) . . .
 
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Enoch111

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Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions.
This is patently false. James said that he is a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you misrepresent him by saying "James was certainly not writing to those under grace". Then you add insult to injury by saying "and that he got some things wrong"!

But you never stopped to ask yourself "If the epistle of James was not written to Christians, why is it even included in the New Testament?" And there is not a single commentator who would suggest that James does not belong in the Bible or the New Testament.

As to good works by Christians, they are not only essential for sanctification, but God has appointed Christians to good works. So there goes your muddled theory.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it isthe gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)


 

marksman

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What is obvious to me is that those that teach a child of God MUST have works to show their faith have hung the statement of James that “faith without works is dead” around the necks of those “IN CHRIST” who believe in Jesus‘ work on the cross.

To these we are just required to keep the law of good works and those works are defined by them with selected verses. Which is better, to be kind to others or to try and get them to see the salvation that Jesus paid for on the cross? Baring fruit for God isn’t a person glorifying in their own works; but glorifying Jesus' work on the cross. We are to witness to faith in Jesus’ work and not our own.

Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life? It seems to me that every time a person tries to reach out to God in faith the religious works crowd hangs the requirement of works around their neck.

I am completely aware that a child of God will be lead by the Holy Spirit to do what God wishes for them to do. But that is not what the works crowd wants. They want to determine the works others are to do. Doesn’t matter if those person’s are doing what God wants them to do.

Even though I have shown that James was certainly not writing to those under grace and that he got some things wrong the religious works crowd still cling to their traditions. They will not see that placing their faith in works will not save them and as Paul writes they are under a curse. Why???? Because they trample under foot the “:completed” work of Jesus on the cross.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

To me, it seems that, most can tell you about their faith in keeping commandment and picking up their cross of their works but they will not tell about their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Most who testify that they have faith in Jesus’ work on the cross are even accused, by the works crowd, of not being saved by given them derogatory labels so they can accuse them of not having a true faith.

But to us who know that faith in what Jesus did on the cross is the only way to please God will never say we earn a place with God BECAUSE of our works. Now the works crowd will say that they are doing that too. If they are doing that too then why do they give statements like easy believes?

According to Paul, when a person adds works to grace they are under a curse. I, personally do not claim any works.. Does that mean I do not do any?? Off course not! It means I place no confidence in my works. If I have any God knows it, not me.

But that is okay, I let others talk about how they keep Jesus’ commandment. But when, and if, they look into their hearts they would know they are not. I think God’s judgment on them for boasting in their own works while neglecting to boast in Jesus’ work will not bring a good out come.

But hey, that is just a person’s remarks that have been told that what I believe is totally wrong and is easy believism. So faith in Jesus’ work on the cross is just easy believism. So get out there and do your works.

I did not read all of your post as it was too long and too wordy, but I did notice the following.....

1. Baring fruit for God. How does one "bar" fruit for God?

2. Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life. Very often, being kind to someone is the way that opens the door for them to be led to eternal life.
 
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H. Richard

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This is patently false. James said that he is a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you misrepresent him by saying "James was certainly not writing to those under grace". Then you add insult to injury by saying "and that he got some things wrong"!

But you never stopped to ask yourself "If the epistle of James was not written to Christians, why is it even included in the New Testament?" And there is not a single commentator who would suggest that James does not belong in the Bible or the New Testament.

As to good works by Christians, they are not only essential for sanctification, but God has appointed Christians to good works. So there goes your muddled theory.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it isthe gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)


Why do you continue to say the book of James was written to the grace church? James 1:1 tells us who the book was written to but I see that most do not believe James 1:1. They have an agenda that needs the book to establish a works based religion and hang the necessity of works around the necks of the children of God.

When they do that people will try to do works that are not directed by the Holy Spirit but are doing them to try and insure their salvation.
 

H. Richard

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I did not read all of your post as it was too long and too wordy, but I did notice the following.....

1. Baring fruit for God. How does one "bar" fruit for God?

2. Tell me, which is better, to be kind to others or to help lead them to eternal life. Very often, being kind to someone is the way that opens the door for them to be led to eternal life.

LoL ---- I am not the best typist. I use the hunt and peck system.
 
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