"Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated" ("but I have loved Jacob, far more, than I have hated Esau"). Discuss.

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Gottservant

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Hi there,

Ok so, we have this verse, where it looks like God is separating wheat from chaff (Malachi), but actually upon reflection, it is not clear that God is playing favourites, so much as extending a distinction - that brings contrast. The key point of fact, is that God does not say "I despised Esau" nor "Have I not set Jacob completely apart?", rather He welcomes them as brothers, under His Wing. The subtext is that "[God] loved Jacob far more, than [He] hated Esau". God is not putting a burden on Esau, that Esau can't carry; nor does God love Jacob with a love that is too little to do anything with - in this sense, they both remain brothers! That is how God's yoke works: He brings you together with those of your kind, that you may support one another, how ever you are burdened!

The verse that supports this subtext of lots of love and little hate, is "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" (old testament, quoted in the new). God is not saying "See that you crucify my love" to Jacob, nor "Keep in mind, how much I hate you" to Esau - that is not how God works. We must remember that God desires a relationship, with us; God does not grow in love with us, while giving us a relationship that is unfair - we aren't married to the world, but those God has drawn out of the world, to be with God, regardless of how He feels about them. There is a mystery in this: does God love Jacob with the Love that was meant for Esau? No! For God preserves Esau and does not destroy him. Does God ask Jacob to improve on His Love, while He loves others with him, the same way? No! God abounds in Love for Jacob, in ways that could never have been possible, even if all He did was love Esau less.

So there is a calling here, to walk in the freedom, that God has given us. It may be that God refrains from giving us, things that would destroy us - like a brother, who despised God's love for us, or a brother who was conceited about how much love he got. As God has said "I have created the Artisan and the Destroyer" (old testament, from memory); the more Esau is hated, the more he is comforted that a life of ownership, is no life at all; the more Jacob is loved, the more he sets about working to possess that love, to give place to that love and to desire the fruit of that love - if even then you could put a limit on how great that love was. God's power grows in this; not out of a rush to do His Will, as madness comes to find its root in (there is madness there, but we need not feed it).

This power of God's, to shape those He has a relationship with, is something you can't find anywhere else in Creation. The Devil creates an artifice, that he uses for everyone, a cookie-cutter relationship, that only diminishes with time. If we resist him (the Devil), we come to realise that those in our lives, also have different relationships to God, that we can't account for, without God. We grow to appreciate Him. We also grow to appreciate others, because we know there is a difference, that God has set out, even from before we were created. These relationships become something we can feed, and nourish, that they become the fullest examples of the Power of God and the outstretched hand of His Love. Yes! We can praise Him, as no other!

I hope this has been of some blessing.

God bless.
 

n2thelight

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Hi there,

Ok so, we have this verse, where it looks like God is separating wheat from chaff (Malachi), but actually upon reflection, it is not clear that God is playing favourites, so much as extending a distinction - that brings contrast. The key point of fact, is that God does not say "I despised Esau" nor "Have I not set Jacob completely apart?", rather He welcomes them as brothers, under His Wing. The subtext is that "[God] loved Jacob far more, than [He] hated Esau". God is not putting a burden on Esau, that Esau can't carry; nor does God love Jacob with a love that is too little to do anything with - in this sense, they both remain brothers! That is how God's yoke works: He brings you together with those of your kind, that you may support one another, how ever you are burdened!

The verse that supports this subtext of lots of love and little hate, is "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" (old testament, quoted in the new). God is not saying "See that you crucify my love" to Jacob, nor "Keep in mind, how much I hate you" to Esau - that is not how God works. We must remember that God desires a relationship, with us; God does not grow in love with us, while giving us a relationship that is unfair - we aren't married to the world, but those God has drawn out of the world, to be with God, regardless of how He feels about them. There is a mystery in this: does God love Jacob with the Love that was meant for Esau? No! For God preserves Esau and does not destroy him. Does God ask Jacob to improve on His Love, while He loves others with him, the same way? No! God abounds in Love for Jacob, in ways that could never have been possible, even if all He did was love Esau less.

So there is a calling here, to walk in the freedom, that God has given us. It may be that God refrains from giving us, things that would destroy us - like a brother, who despised God's love for us, or a brother who was conceited about how much love he got. As God has said "I have created the Artisan and the Destroyer" (old testament, from memory); the more Esau is hated, the more he is comforted that a life of ownership, is no life at all; the more Jacob is loved, the more he sets about working to possess that love, to give place to that love and to desire the fruit of that love - if even then you could put a limit on how great that love was. God's power grows in this; not out of a rush to do His Will, as madness comes to find its root in (there is madness there, but we need not feed it).

This power of God's, to shape those He has a relationship with, is something you can't find anywhere else in Creation. The Devil creates an artifice, that he uses for everyone, a cookie-cutter relationship, that only diminishes with time. If we resist him (the Devil), we come to realise that those in our lives, also have different relationships to God, that we can't account for, without God. We grow to appreciate Him. We also grow to appreciate others, because we know there is a difference, that God has set out, even from before we were created. These relationships become something we can feed, and nourish, that they become the fullest examples of the Power of God and the outstretched hand of His Love. Yes! We can praise Him, as no other!

I hope this has been of some blessing.

God bless.
God hated Easu before he was even born ,the question should be why
 
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Gottservant

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God hated Easu before he was even born ,the question should be why
As I said God "desires mercy, not sacrifice"

To ask why, is to ask "which sacrifice?" - to ask how, is to ask "which mercy?".

Ask the Holy Spirit, to open up your eyes to the mystery of relationship?
 

n2thelight

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As I said God "desires mercy, not sacrifice"

To ask why, is to ask "which sacrifice?" - to ask how, is to ask "which mercy?".

Ask the Holy Spirit, to open up your eyes to the mystery of relationship?
Never mind as you missing the point of my question, carry on
 

n2thelight

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Yes but what you are saying contradicts what God has taught me (through this)?

I don't believe the question should be "why?"
I feel they why is important God hated Esau because of the soul of Esau that was in Rebecca's womb and the hatred was for what happened in that first earth age.
 

Nancy

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I've heard it said one time concerning this that, God "preferred Jacob over Esau". Sounds more palatable than hated anyhow. :)
 

bbyrd009

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I feel they why is important God hated Esau because of the soul of Esau that was in Rebecca's womb and the hatred was for what happened in that first earth age.
i would say that the reason for the dislike of Esau is provided in the legend, and it isnt that hard to work out imo. Jacob made “red stew” but didnt eat any…etc
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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God hated Easu before he was even born ,the question should be why
It is a scientifically established fact that much of a child’s general disposition and temperament is determined at the time of conception because of the genetic factors contributed by each parent. That God can see such factors is self-evident; David speaks of Jehovah as seeing “even the embryo of me.” (Ps 139:14-16; Ec 11:5.) So God seeing the general disposition of each child, while in the womb, he prophesied that the younger would rule the older.
As time went by after the birth of the children it could be seen that Esau didn't care about the spiritual things connected with God, especially concerning the birthright, or the right of firstborn. This is why Jacob was able to buy Esau birthright from him so easily because Esau honestly didn't care about the spiritual things connected to the birthright. Also the fact that Esau married women of the nations who worshipped false God's shows that he thought nothing like his father Issac or grandfather Abraham who married women who worshipped YHWH God.
When the scriptures say that God hated Esau it doesn't mean God actually hated Esau. It simply meant he loved Esau less than he loved Jacob. Jacob was a faithful servant to YHWH God. Jacob loved spiritual things concerning God, especially the spiritual things connected to the firstborn rights. The seed of promise (Genesis 3:15) was connected to the right of firstborn.
What I see concerning the biblical story of Jacob and Esau is that we should appreciate spiritual things as Jacob did. We are to love God first and foremost in our lives that means spiritual things concerning God and his purpose his will should be very important to us and we should show that appreciation by putting God first in our lives, acting on the things that God says are in our best interests to be obedient to.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I heard a good explanation of the spirit of the words today.
That Jacob portrays the new man birthed from above and Esau portrays the old man/flesh that must die and is not allowed to enter the kingdom.
 
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Ziggy

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until you are ready to accept what “red stew” means, you are basically wasting your time tbh
This verse came to mind.
Psa 75:8
For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.
hugs
 

stunnedbygrace

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This verse came to mind.
Psa 75:8
For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.
hugs
My mind brought up, for some strange reason, Who is this who comes from Edom, from the city of Bozrah, with his clothing stained red? I guess because of Edom being what Esau was also called and the red covering on Jesus like the red,hairy covering on Esau at birth.

Both of the verses that came to our minds relate to judgement/wrath…
 

stunnedbygrace

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Big mystery…
I do remember hearing somewhere that in Hebrew, when Esau asked for the stew, the original had red repeated twice “red red.”
I would have to go look if I remember that correctly…but there is a repeat of this in the verse about robes stained red, since Edom means red, so red twice again…sort of like, who is this who comes from red with robes stained red…

I truly believe there could be something there…maybe Epi will find the thread and have something to say about the Hebrew. Or maybe we aren’t to know now. :)
 
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bbyrd009

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Big mystery…
I do remember hearing somewhere that in Hebrew, when Esau asked for the stew, the original had red repeated twice “red red.”
I would have to go look if I remember that correctly…but there is a repeat of this in the verse about robes stained red, since Edom means red, so red twice again…sort of like, who is this who comes from red with robes stained red…

I truly believe there could be something there…maybe Epi will find the thread and have something to say about the Hebrew. Or maybe we aren’t to know now. :)
shouldnt be such a big leap from robes stained red, i guess
 

Ziggy

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Isaac didn't hate Esau, he loved his food.
Rebekah on the other hand hated Esau in her heart.
Gen 25:28
And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

How do we justify Rebekah's deception to Isaac?

Hugs
 
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Ziggy

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Before Jacob was named Israel....

Rebekah is the daughter of Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:23
And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.

Gen 25:20
And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.

So Rebekah was Syrian.

Esau is Syrian.

Gen 25:23
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

and the elder shall serve the younger.

Syria:
Mat 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 4:24
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

And he healed them.

2Ki 16:9
And the king of Assyria hearkened unto him: for the king of Assyria went up against Damascus, and took it, and carried the people of it captive to Kir, and slew Rezin.
Amo 9:7
Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

God carried the Syrians out of Assyria just like He carried Israel out of Egypt.

Amo 9:8
Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
Amo 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Luk 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

All I know is it is not God's will that any should perish...

Speaking of Peter:
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I think people have to stop holding grudges.
We read these stories and we have the opportunity to judge the characters in those stories according to our understanding.
No way will God forgive... Cain, Esau, Judas... etc.
But each one of these characters has a role to play in our learning.
1Co 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

We may be part of the jury, but remember, we are not the Judge.

Isa 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Psa 86:15
But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Hugs