Jerusalem: A Fig Tree That Will Bud Again

[Hidden In Him]

The Parable of the Fig Tree

6 [Jesus] also spoke this parable: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’ 8 But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.’”

Will the city of Jerusalem bear spiritual fruit, and many Jews come to Christ in the end-times? Many say no, and that God is done with the nation of Isreal; that the church is now spiritual "Isreal" and all Bible prophecy relates to Christians alone. They even teach that the above parable proves God was finished with Israel after A.D. 70.

But was He? This will take a little bit to unpack, but first let's list the specifics of this parable. The symbolism was as follows:

- The man who planted the tree was God
- His vineyard was Isreal, and the fig tree was specifically the city of Jerusalem.
- Jesus was the keeper of the vineyard.
- The fruit God was seeking from His fig tree was the fruit of righteousness, which they were not giving Him, so the Father had determined to "cut it down," and that judgment would come upon Israel, for she would be handed over to the nations.
- But Jesus was depicted here as interceding on behalf of Jerusalem, asking the Father to essentially, "Give it one more season before you bring judgment upon them. I will pour out the Holy Spirit upon them as a witness to Me, and perhaps the city will come under repentance, and finally turn to producing the fruit of righteousness. If they still do not after that, cut it down."

Did the city of Jerusalem produce the fruit God desired in the 1st century? Yes and no. After the Spirit of God was poured out upon the disciples in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, Acts says:

40 And with many other words [Peter] testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them... 46 and [believers] ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:40-47)

What becomes very interesting, however, is this: Jesus uses a fig tree parable again later in His ministry as recorded in both Matthew 24 and Luke 21, and in this teaching He prophesied that in the time just before His return, the fig tree (Jerusalem) would start to have tender branches and then bud, which are the early stages of bearing fruit.

Luke 21 renders it like this:

29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

Matthew 24 has it this way:

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth shoots, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

Now, this symbolism strongly suggests that in the time just before Christ's return to gather His elect from the four corners of the earth, the fig tree, which was Jerusalem in the previous parable, will again bud and begin bearing fruit. This also suggests the Spirit will once again be poured put upon Israel as well.

Lest anyone doubt that this passage was talking about the nation of Isreal and Jerusalem specifically here, take a look again at the context in which these passages are found. I will post them out in full in the next post.

God bless, and thanks for reading.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will highlight all the things in this teaching that specifically made reference to the city of Jerusalem. Some attempt to spiritualize these words into referencing other things symbolically, but there is no way His disciples would have understood them any other way than to be referring to the literal temple, the literal Mount of Olives, and literal Judea, and Jesus was not talking past His disciples to us despite some arguing that He was:

24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

 

[Jay Ross]

@Hidden In Him,

This parable had slipped my memory banks. Thanks for referring to it.

However, I see that this parable can also be linked to the Exodus 20:4-6 prophecy with respect to the time frames being spoken.

It can also be linked with Lam. 5:19-22, Hosea 6:1-3, where the time frame that is used is actually and age or a day of the Lord, and from my reading and studying of the scriptures, I would consider that both indicate the same period of time.

Since the Temple in Jerusalem was not built until the the beginning of the second age of the existence of the nation of Israel, I would suggest to you that the Luke 13:6-9 parable of the Fig Tree is actually referencing the Nation of Israel and not just Jerusalem as you have suggested in your OP.

The Planting of the Fig tree began with the birth of Isaac, and his birth was the confirmation for Abraham to know that the Abrahamic Covenant that God had first began revealing to Abraham some 50 years earlier while Abraham was still living in Ur of the Chaldeans would be fulfilled by God.

God did not fill Solomon's temple with His presences until around 80 years into the second age. Then some 490 years later, God allowed the temple to be stripped of its glory by Babylon because Israel as a whole did not keep every seventh year holy to allow the earth and the people to rest.

After the exile of the Israel in Babylon, a remanent returned to the land of Canaan and slowly repaired the Temple, but not to its former Glory. Daniel then foretold that the Temple would be rebuilt during troubled times, and this Temple was know as Herold's Temple.

We also know that at this time that Israel had not repented of their continual idolatrous worship and so during the next two ages, which has not yet been completed, the iniquities of the fathers of the first two ages began to be visited upon the children and the Children's children and will end at the end of this present age in our near future. It is during the early years of the third age that God allowed the temple to be completely levelled and the ground to be ploughed.

Yes, Israel will attempt to rebuild the temple before the end of this present fourth age, but they will not have the means to complete task of rebuilding the temple and will become the laughing stock of the nations around them and all of the kings of the earth will come up to the valley of decision and their they will be judged at the very end of the fourth age of the existence of Israel.

In Jeremiah 50: we are told that during the time that Israel begin to seek the Lord during the later years of the fourth age, that Babylon will be remembered once more to receive the wrath of God for what Babylon has done against the nation of Israel, and it is during the time of the kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy that God will again establish His Everlasting Kingdom on the earth, which will have the foundation stone based on the stone untouched by human hands that come down out of heaven to crush the feet of the statue.

Continued below.

(Errors and mistakes accepted.)

 

[Jay Ross]

Continuing from the post above: -

Returning to the Luke 13:6-9 parable.

In this parable, if we adopt that the year is representative of an age, we know that God is going to come to inspect the fig tree to see if it will have any fruit on its branches.

In the parable we are told that God had visited the fig tree at the end of the first, second and third ages and had found no fruit on the fig tree and so after the third visit to the fig tree he instructed the keeper of his vineyard to cut the fig tree down and to destroy it with fire, but the keeper pleaded for another age and promised to tend to the needs of the fig tree such that it might bear fruit for the owner of the vineyard to see.

The end of the fourth age of the existence of Israel is still in our near future and as Paul in Romans 11:25-26 tells us, that after the time of the Gentile nations has run its full 2,300 years of the prophecy of them trampling the Sanctuary and God’s earthly hosts, that all of Israel will be saved.

In Ezekiel we are also told that God will gather all of Israel to Himself and that He will plant them in the fertile field of Israel and will teach them on the Mountain of Israel, which will become the biggest mountain in all of the earth.

Also in Jeremiah 31:31ff we are told that God will make like new again the same covenant that He had entered into at Mt Sinai, which they had agreed to yet rebelled against within 40 days because Moses was up on the Mountain with God. This covenant is were Israel once again undertakes to be a Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and God’s possession among the Nations.

The parable of the Prodigal Son comes to mind where the “Christian” son who had stayed at home, complained about his brother, Israel, to his father after he had returned home. The “Christian” son had worked hard to being in the harvest for his Father and was indignant that his brother had returned to share in the Father’s inheritance.

The lesson from the fig tree that we need to learn is the when the fig tree which was once withered, miraculously begins to bud leaves that the summer season, i.e. the seventh age, of harvesting souls will begin upon the earth and God full redemption plan will swing into action and Israel will once again walk with the Lord also.

Shalom

 

[michaelvpardo]

@Hidden In Him,

This parable had slipped my memory banks. Thanks for referring to it.

However, I see that this parable can also be linked to the Exodus 20:4-6 prophecy with respect to the time frames being spoken.

It can also be linked with Lam. 5:19-22, Hosea 6:1-3, where the time frame that is used is actually and age or a day of the Lord, and from my reading and studying of the scriptures, I would consider that both indicate the same period of time.

Since the Temple in Jerusalem was not built until the the beginning of the second age of the existence of the nation of Israel, I would suggest to you that the Luke 13:6-9 parable of the Fig Tree is actually referencing the Nation of Israel and not just Jerusalem as you have suggested in your OP.

The Planting of the Fig tree began with the birth of Isaac, and his birth was the confirmation for Abraham to know that the Abrahamic Covenant that God had first began revealing to Abraham some 50 years earlier while Abraham was still living in Ur of the Chaldeans would be fulfilled by God.

God did not fill Solomon's temple with His presences until around 80 years into the second age. Then some 490 years later, God allowed the temple to be stripped of its glory by Babylon because Israel as a whole did not keep every seventh year holy to allow the earth and the people to rest.

After the exile of the Israel in Babylon, a remanent returned to the land of Canaan and slowly repaired the Temple, but not to its former Glory. Daniel then foretold that the Temple would be rebuilt during troubled times, and this Temple was know as Herold's Temple.

We also know that at this time that Israel had not repented of their continual idolatrous worship and so during the next two ages, which has not yet been completed, the iniquities of the fathers of the first two ages began to be visited upon the children and the Children's children and will end at the end of this present age in our near future. It is during the early years of the third age that God allowed the temple to be completely levelled and the ground to be ploughed.

Yes, Israel will attempt to rebuild the temple before the end of this present fourth age, but they will not have the means to complete task of rebuilding the temple and will become the laughing stock of the nations around them and all of the kings of the earth will come up to the valley of decision and their they will be judged at the very end of the fourth age of the existence of Israel.

In Jeremiah 50: we are told that during the time that Israel begin to seek the Lord during the later years of the fourth age, that Babylon will be remembered once more to receive the wrath of God for what Babylon has done against the nation of Israel, and it is during the time of the kings of the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy that God will again establish His Everlasting Kingdom on the earth, which will have the foundation stone based on the stone untouched by human hands that come down out of heaven to crush the feet of the statue.

Continued below.

(Errors and mistakes accepted.)

I used to listen to a few radio ministries that were taught by Jewish believers in Jesus (or Yeshua ha mashiach) and they definitely have a different perspective from most churches.
Personally, I can't comprehend why anyone would believe themselves Christian and yet dismiss all the prophecies of a restoration of national Israel, beginning with the song of Moses in the book of Deuteronomy.
I've always assumed that "replacement theology" was born of the same kind of racism that put over 6 million Jews in gas chambers, or at the end of a noose, or as the target of a luger, in a nation that was predominantly "Christian."
My own mother grew up in rural Pennsylvania believing that all Jews had horns and were responsible for killing God. I guess she was surprised when she was hired by a Jewish family as a a housemaid after moving to New York City.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Returning to the Luke 13:6-9 parable.

In this parable, if we adopt that the year is representative of an age, we know that God is going to come to inspect the fig tree to see if it will have any fruit on its branches.

In the parable we are told that God had visited the fig tree at the end of the first, second and third ages and had found no fruit on the fig tree and so after the third visit to the fig tree he instructed the keeper of his vineyard to cut the fig tree down and to destroy it with fire, but the keeper pleaded for another age and promised to tend to the needs of the fig tree such that it might bear fruit for the owner of the vineyard to see.

The end of the fourth age of the existence of Israel is still in our near future and as Paul in Romans 11:25-26 tells us, that after the time of the Gentile nations has run its full 2,300 years of the prophecy of them trampling the Sanctuary and God’s earthly hosts, that all of Israel will be saved.

Your application of three ages in Israel's history is good. About your 2,300 years, I was reading your mention of the end of the age beginning around 2040 in another thread, and found it interesting. Could you post a link on how you are arriving at 2,300 years? You have me curious now of how you arrived at that.

God bless,
- H

 

[Hidden In Him]

Personally, I can't comprehend why anyone would believe themselves Christian and yet dismiss all the prophecies of a restoration of national Israel, beginning with the song of Moses in the book of Deuteronomy.

Me neither. And I do think racism CAN effect the interpretations of people's eschatology, it all depends on the person, however. I think replacement theology was already well-established before the regathering of Israel as a nation. Because of it, I think some of those who espoused it for so long may have clung to it to save face. But this is where humility comes in. As much as none of us likes to admit being wrong, sometimes we have to face the fact that doing so is better than persisting in an error and continuing to be.

My own mother grew up in rural Pennsylvania believing that all Jews had horns and were responsible for killing God. I guess she was surprised when she was hired by a Jewish family as a a housemaid after moving to New York City.

LoL : )

 

[Jay Ross]

Your application of three ages in Israel's history is good. About your 2,300 years, I was reading your mention of the end of the age beginning around 2040 in another thread, and found it interesting. Could you post a link on how you are arriving at 2,300 years? You have me curious now of how you arrived at that.

God bless,
- H

Daniel 8:14

It speaks of 2,300 evenings and mornings which in my understanding is a day. As is the case elsewhere in the Book of Daniel the year for a day rule is also applicable to this verse.

The trampling of God's sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts began around 70 or so years after the death of Alexandra the Great. The time maker which can be used as the starting point is the creation of the LXX by the Jewish scholars when they translated their scriptures in the Greek language. around 250-260 BC.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Me neither. And I do think racism CAN effect the interpretations of people's eschatology, it all depends on the person, however. I think replacement theology was already well-established before the regathering of Israel as a nation. Because of it, I think some of those who espoused it for so long may have clung to it to save face. But this is where humility comes in. As much as none of us likes to admit being wrong, sometimes we have to face the fact that doing so is better than persisting in an error and continuing to be.


LoL : )

I've been told that Martin Luther was deeply Antisemitic, but I don't know how anyone would know that (I've never bothered reading his theses or published works.)
I've participated in online discussions since the days of telephone modems and computers with 8080 processors. I remember online arguments on "bulletin boards" over who killed Jesus, the Romans or Jews? I think that our theologies have grown a little bit since then, but not so much as I'd hoped for.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Daniel 8:14

It speaks of 2,300 evenings and mornings which in my understanding is a day. As is the case elsewhere in the Book of Daniel the year for a day rule is also applicable to this verse.

The trampling of God's sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts began around 70 or so years after the death of Alexandra the Great.

Ok, but now the prophecy that immediately precedes it is about the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV.

2,300 days figures to about 6 1/3 years, and Antiochus persecuted the Jews from about September 171 BC to December 165 BC, which fits the time frame.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because if it applied to the time of Antiochus as the context suggests, even if you equated days to years, this would have your years beginning at roughly 160 B.C. and lasting through to roughly 2140 A.D., not 2040 A.D.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've been told that Martin Luther was deeply Antisemitic, but I don't know how anyone would know that (I've never bothered reading his theses or published works.)

Yes, he became fairly strongly anti-Semitic by the end of his life. Here is a decent article on it:

The Reformation at 500: Grappling with Martin Luther's anti-Semitic legacy - Macleans.ca

 

[Truth7t7]

Me neither. And I do think racism CAN effect the interpretations of people's eschatology, it all depends on the person, however. I think replacement theology was already well-established before the regathering of Israel as a nation. Because of it, I think some of those who espoused it for so long may have clung to it to save face. But this is where humility comes in. As much as none of us likes to admit being wrong, sometimes we have to face the fact that doing so is better than persisting in an error and continuing to be.


LoL : )

Jesus was the great teacher of replacement theology, the kingdom of God has been taken from Israel, and given to the "Holy Nation" in the Church

Matthew 21:43KJV
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel 8:14

It speaks of 2,300 evenings and mornings which in my understanding is a day. As is the case elsewhere in the Book of Daniel the year for a day rule is also applicable to this verse.

The trampling of God's sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts began around 70 or so years after the death of Alexandra the Great. The time maker which can be used as the starting point is the creation of the LXX by the Jewish scholars when they translated their scriptures in the Greek language. around 250-260 BC.

Antiochus Epiphanies ruled from 175 to 164. So 2300 years later would range from 2125AD to 2136AD. Seems to me the Sanctuary was cleansed after 2300 days, not still waiting.

"Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

This was still fresh in the minds of first century Jewery. It was called Hanukkah. That is why Jesus could say that if you all see that happen again.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

The next time it happens, it will be the literal end. Daniel's prophecy was completed around 168BC. 2300 days later the Temple was cleansed.

How did this chapter end up relating to the Septuagint in the reign of Ptolemy II?

"Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

The Ptolemaic dynasty was one fourth of the Greek empire made up in part of Egypt and parts of Israel. But Antiochus Epiphanies was not the little horn of the Ptolemaic Greek rule. He was probably the one who weekend Greek control allowing Rome to be the fourth empire.

 

[Jay Ross]

Ok, but now the prophecy that immediately precedes it is about the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV.

2,300 days figures to about 6 1/3 years, and Antiochus persecuted the Jews from about September 171 BC to December 165 BC, which fits the time frame.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because if it applied to the time of Antiochus as the context suggests, even if you equated days to years, this would have your years beginning at roughly 160 B.C. and lasting through to roughly 2140 A.D., not 2040 A.D.

You are welcome to believe what you liked, but the connection to Antiochus Epiphanes IV only deals mainly with the temple being trampled and I agree that the Jews were also trampled during his reign, but the trampling of the Jews has even continued up and until this present time over the time period that I have mentioned.

The Little Horn has been given a number of armies through this time period that I am suggesting of 2,300 year, to trample God's sanctuary.

It is very easy to pick the wrong historical facts to come to the wrong conclusions.

The Maccabee record of the Grecian interaction with respect to the Temple and the people in and around Jerusalem is true but the lie that this was the only time that the Temple was trampled is not so.

Now I may not be alive during the 2040-2048 period, but if the kings of the earth are assembled at Armageddon during this time period, then that will confirm that many have grasped the wrong straw to base their conclusions on with regards to the Prophetic accounts in the scriptures.

Now since we have seen the three foul frog like spirits mentioned in Rev. 16:12-16, going out to perform signs and wonders that were seen all around the earth in our resent past, i.e. 9/11/2001, it is very likely that the assembling of the kings will occur within 30-50 years of that event to be judged and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

Shalom

 

[Hidden In Him]

Matthew 21:43KJV
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Hi, Truth.

Didn't we go over this verse before... the proper translation is "and shall be given to a people who will bring forth the fruits thereof." It's a reference to the apostles, because he was addressing the Jewish leadership and telling them that they would in effect lose their positions of power as spiritual leaders is Israel, and that those positions would be handed over to the leadership of the church. Hence Christ's promise to the twelve disciples that they would "rule over the twelve tribes of Israel."

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are welcome to believe what you liked, but the connection to Antiochus Epiphanes IV only deals mainly with the temple being trampled and I agree that the Jews were also trampled during his reign, but the trampling of the Jews has even continued up and until this present time over the time period that I have mentioned.

Well yes, but he slaughtered thousands of Jews. It was no ordinary persecution. It was an attempted extermination of all who would not reject the God of Israel and His statutes.

The Little Horn has been given a number of armies through this time period that I am suggesting of 2,300 year, to trample God's sanctuary.

Ok, now you lost me. I'm a Futurist, and this sounds like a Historicist interpretation of Biblical prophecy. If I weren't so strapped for time lately, I could maybe get into that with you, but as it is, we may have to put this off for a later date.

I do find the discussion interesting, however.

 

[Jay Ross]

Antiochus Epiphanies ruled from 175 to 164. So 2300 years later would range from 2125AD to 2136AD. Seems to me the Sanctuary was cleansed after 2300 days, not still waiting.

"Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

This was still fresh in the minds of first century Jewery. It was called Hanukkah. That is why Jesus could say that if you all see that happen again.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

The next time it happens, it will be the literal end. Daniel's prophecy was completed around 168BC. 2300 days later the Temple was cleansed.

How did this chapter end up relating to the Septuagint in the reign of Ptolemy II?

"Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

The Ptolemaic dynasty was one fourth of the Greek empire made up in part of Egypt and parts of Israel. But Antiochus Epiphanies was not the little horn of the Ptolemaic Greek rule. He was probably the one who weekend Greek control allowing Rome to be the fourth empire.

You are welcome to grasp at the straws that you do to justify your published understandings, but my studies have not taken me down the same road that you have travelled.

Since the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the Babylonian Statue Prophecy, nor is associated with the fourth beast of Daniel 7, I can only assume that your understanding is based on many flawed conclusions.

 

[Jay Ross]

Ok, now you lost me. I'm a Futurist, and this sounds like a Historicist interpretation of Biblical prophecy. If I weren't so strapped for time lately, I could maybe get into that with you, but as it is, we may have to put this off for a later date.

Dan. 8:8-14: - 8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?"

14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."​

NKJV​

The problem with a Futurist interpretation is that it collides with Historicist interpretations as time advances and the Futurist understandings become Historicist understandings.

The Dan. 8:8-14 prophetic word is now approaching its completion with still around 22 years to go before the completion of the full 2,300 years that the prophetic word covers in time. Any outworking of this prophecy from around 250-260 BC up and until the present time, is Historical so that it falls now into a Historicist understanding with respect to its interpretation, while the next 22 or so years are still Futurist in how we interpret what is still to happen as this prophecy draws to its conclusion.

This makes it difficult for some people to wrap their laughing matter around Biblically recorded prophecy. because the prophecy is trapped between the two Historical and Futuristically understanding/interpretational processes.

The KISS theological views can often be difficult to accommodate.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

Will the city of Jerusalem bear spiritual fruit, and many Jews come to Christ in the end-times?

Why only Jerusalem? Why not Israel? I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the first ripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved. (Hos 9:10) He spake also this parable; A certain man [God] had a fig tree [Israel] planted in his vineyard [the world]; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (Lk 13:6)

Even though the nation of Israel was the most highly favored nation on earth, they went after idols and false gods, instead of remaining true to God. Then they rejected Jesus of Nazareth. Hence there was no spiritual fruit from that "fig tree" and it was cut down in AD 70. Christ spent three years in Israel to no avail.

 

[Timtofly]

You are welcome to grasp at the straws that you do to justify your published understandings, but my studies have not taken me down the same road that you have travelled.

Since the Roman Empire is not the fourth segment of the Babylonian Statue Prophecy, nor is associated with the fourth beast of Daniel 7, I can only assume that your understanding is based on many flawed conclusions.

You mean history is flawed, and we literally have no knowledge of the last 2100 years?

If Rome is not an empire after Greece, and Rome was not in control of Palestine in 30AD, and Pilate was not a Roman in charge over the crucifixion, and Rome did not sack and destroy Jerusalem in 70AD, and Constatine was not emperor of Rome, what named empire took up some 300 to 400 years of history, prior to the dark ages?

I am not really going to make any opinionated guesses other than natural history accepted by the majority of historians. Is there really a point to guessing games?

Daniel left out many empires that overlapped in history. Assyria, Mesopotamia, Ur, Chaldeans, Medians, Nubia, Egypt, India, China, Arabians, Scythians, Barbarians, and the America's. I probably missed a couple. That is before 300AD. Many appeared after 300AD.

I don't even see a future one world government. It is all iron and clay. 10, 20, 30, 100 different nations clamering for global recognition. It will not make a difference. At the 6th Seal, Second Coming, all borders and even the continents are going to drastically change and those ethnicities who loose the least population are going to control the most real estate. If all modern works are burned up, it will be starting from scratch. Whatever happens will not be something planned, unless Satan has convinced some Revelation is actually true, and they should do something now, and not dismiss God's Word. I doubt Satan is stupid, just insane.

Your opinion seems buried in mystique instead of the general consensus.