Jerusalem of the beast vs The Beloved City of the saints

[robert derrick]

In order to prove the doctrine of the millennial reign of Christ, as also being on earth, it is necessary to know the difference between Jerusalem today, under the seat of the beast, vs the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Jerusalem that now is, cannot possibly be the beloved city of the saints, that will be surrounded by Gog and Magog.

The only way for Jerusalem on this earth, that is now spiritually Sodom and Egypt, to become once again the holy and beloved city of God and of David, is by the Lord Himself seated as King in Israel, with spiritual reformation, and outward transformation of them living therein.

It is impossible to mistake this Jerusalem at the time of the armies at Armageddon, with the camp of the saints surrounded by Gog and Magog.

Therefore, it is not possible to conflate the Lord's second coming, with the scorching of the earth by fire of God.

 

[Truth7t7]

In order to prove the doctrine of the millennial reign of Christ, as also being on earth, it is necessary to know the difference between Jerusalem today, under the seat of the beast, vs the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Jerusalem that now is, cannot possibly be the beloved city of the saints, that will be surrounded by Gog and Magog.

The only way for Jerusalem on this earth, that is now spiritually Sodom and Egypt, to become once again the holy and beloved city of God and of David, is by the Lord Himself seated as King in Israel, with spiritual reformation, and outward transformation of them living therein.

It is impossible to mistake this Jerusalem at the time of the armies at Armageddon, with the camp of the saints surrounded by Gog and Magog.

Therefore, it is not possible to conflate the Lord's second coming, with the scorching of the earth by fire of God.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Keraz]

Therefore, it is not possible to conflate the Lord's second coming, with the scorching of the earth by fire of God.

NO; because the terrible Judgment/punishment by fire, will happen before Jesus Returns.
It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, all of the 100+ Prophesies about the sudden and terrifying Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth

We are all fed up with your cut and paste posts, that directly oppose clearly stated scripture.
Revelation 20 states 6 times that there WILL be a thousand year period after Jesus Returns, when He will reign as King of the world. Plus many other proofs of this glorious time.

the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

It will be a rebuilt Jerusalem, with a new Temple, mostly built before Jesus Returns. As described in Ezekiel 40 to 48
The new Spiritual Jerusalem, comes down after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1

 

[ewq1938]

The Jerusalem that now is, cannot possibly be the beloved city of the saints, that will be surrounded by Gog and Magog.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Jerusalem is called the Holy city at the start of the GT so it is not currently "Sodom and Egypt" because that is said about the city near the end of the GT.


Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Obviously the treading by gentiles of the Holy city for 42 months makes it spiritually called Sodom and Egypt which comes as no surprise given the evil occupiers.

 

[ewq1938]

NO; because the terrible Judgment/punishment by fire, will happen before Jesus Returns.

Zero fire is mentioned in the 6th seal. In fact, the biggest source of fire (and light/heat) the Sun will go dark and not shine. You are conflating the NHNE and fiery destruction of the OHOE with the zero fire of the 6th seal events.




Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Marty fox]

In order to prove the doctrine of the millennial reign of Christ, as also being on earth, it is necessary to know the difference between Jerusalem today, under the seat of the beast, vs the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Jerusalem that now is, cannot possibly be the beloved city of the saints, that will be surrounded by Gog and Magog.

The only way for Jerusalem on this earth, that is now spiritually Sodom and Egypt, to become once again the holy and beloved city of God and of David, is by the Lord Himself seated as King in Israel, with spiritual reformation, and outward transformation of them living therein.

It is impossible to mistake this Jerusalem at the time of the armies at Armageddon, with the camp of the saints surrounded by Gog and Magog.

Therefore, it is not possible to conflate the Lord's second coming, with the scorching of the earth by fire of God.

The city now that God loves in revelation chapter 20 is the new Jerusalem the church

Hebrews 12:23-23
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

 

[Ronald D Milam]

In order to prove the doctrine of the millennial reign of Christ, as also being on earth, it is necessary to know the difference between Jerusalem today, under the seat of the beast, vs the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is two different TIMELINES.

One is during the 70th week when the Two-witnesses die.

The other is after Jesus 1000 year reign.

It is not the real Gog and Magog War. It is John using the coming Gog and Magog War which happens just before the Pre Trib Rapture pr just after the 70th week starts. Just like John uses Old Testament verbiage throughout the book of Revelation, here he is using the Ezekiel verbiage, but the strange thing here is the Gog & Magog war happens in the future from where we are, TWICE, the real one AND the one John used to give an End Time Analogy with. Let me give an example, read Rev. 17 the Harlot falls, now go read Dan. 5, the Mene Mene Tekel chapter. Rev. 17 is basically Dan. 5 repurposed. Look at it, he does the same thing with Ezekiel's Gog and Magog.

 

[Keraz]

Zero fire is mentioned in the 6th seal. In fact, the biggest source of fire (and light/heat) the Sun will go dark and not shine.

No Prophecy gives all the details, we must look at all the relevant scriptures. Over 70 DO mention fire at the Lord's Day of Firey wrath.

The sun will darken from the fires and volcanoes triggered by a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from the sun. Also, the sun will darken by being obscured by the ejected mass of this sun explosion.
Right now, the sun is very active and scientists are very concerned that an earth directed CME is imminent.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

What an incredibly shallow response. "No, it isn't so," he says.

 

[ewq1938]

No Prophecy gives all the details, we must look at all the relevant scriptures.

If fire was used, it would be mentioned. It isn't mentioned because it isn't used. What you are doing is known as eisegesis, adding in things that don't belong. Amill does the same exact thing, when claiming fire is used to kill people at the second coming.


Fire is not a weapon of death or destruction in the 6th seal events, second coming, Armageddon or any such passage. That only happens at Jerusalem after the Mill has ended, and at the NHNE when the old is burned.

 

[jeffweeder]

What an incredibly shallow response. "No, it isn't so," he says.

Short and sweet is better than some long-winded rant without scripture.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Short and sweet is better than some long-winded rant without scripture.

Jeff, we all prefer the wind of the Holy Spirit.

 

[jeffweeder]

Amill does the same exact thing, when claiming fire is used to kill people at the second coming.

Wrong again.
Jesus throws the goats into the fire when He comes in a flame of fire to eternally destroy the wicked. God has reserved a day of fire instead of water in Noahs day . As it was in the day of Noah so it shall be when the Son of Man comes.

Can you count the alluded scripture references in the above?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Wrong again.
Jesus throws the goats into the fire when He comes in a flame of fire to eternally destroy the wicked. God has reserved a day of fire instead of water in Noahs day . As it was in the day of Noah so it shall be when the Son of Man comes.

Can you count the alluded scripture references in the above?

That is a pretty good argument except that the entire human race escaped the Flood through Noah's family! This is a strong argument for the continuation of mortal humanity after the judgment of Armageddon. It's a good argument for the Millennial Age following the Return of Christ.

A battle, ie the Battle of Armageddon, is very different, however, from a Flood, which I don't believe could possibly have been universal, ie covering the entire globe. The difference between an apocalyptic "battle" and a local "flood" is that a flood can inundate an entire civilization in the Cradle of Civilization, whereas a Battle only decimates the losers of that battle, leaving few survivors, and leaving even more survivors to those who win the battle.

 

[ewq1938]

Wrong again.
Jesus throws the goats into the fire when He comes in a flame of fire to eternally destroy the wicked.

That is imaginary Amill fiction. It does not come from the bible.

In the bible, Jesus comes and destroys the beast and it's army (Rev 19 and no fire to kill anyone), and after the thousand years ends and the LOF judgment is over, then and only then is the Earth burned up so the New Earth may take it's place, Rev 21.

 

[Trekson]

In order to prove the doctrine of the millennial reign of Christ, as also being on earth, it is necessary to know the difference between Jerusalem today, under the seat of the beast, vs the beloved city Jerusalem of Christ's reign.

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Jerusalem that now is, cannot possibly be the beloved city of the saints, that will be surrounded by Gog and Magog.

The only way for Jerusalem on this earth, that is now spiritually Sodom and Egypt, to become once again the holy and beloved city of God and of David, is by the Lord Himself seated as King in Israel, with spiritual reformation, and outward transformation of them living therein.

It is impossible to mistake this Jerusalem at the time of the armies at Armageddon, with the camp of the saints surrounded by Gog and Magog.

Therefore, it is not possible to conflate the Lord's second coming, with the scorching of the earth by fire of God.

There are a little over a 1000 yrs. between your two scriptures.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20 states 6 times that there WILL be a thousand year period after Jesus Returns, when He will reign as King of the world. Plus many other proofs of this glorious time.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

It will be a rebuilt Jerusalem, with a new Temple, mostly built before Jesus Returns. As described in Ezekiel 40 to 48
The new Spiritual Jerusalem, comes down after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?​

As clearly shown below, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

 

[ewq1938]

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium

Because the bible declares it as true. The false teachers teach there is no Millennium.

 

[robert derrick]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

To sight personal mantra, you do so independently, not in pretense of responding personally to someone else's point.

You just go to the bottom of the page, and have at it.

It's called the virtue of not wasting other peoples' time.