1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by kerwin, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    Premises;

    • Scripture states
    1 Timothy 2:5-6New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

    5 For there is one God.
    There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
    Christ Jesus, himself human,
    6 who gave himself as ransom for all.
    This was the testimony[a] at the proper time.

    Footnotes:

    2:6 The testimony: to make sense of this overly concise phrase, many manuscripts supply “to which” (or “to whom”); two others add “was given.” The translation has supplied “this was.”
    • Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35-36)
    • A being is either of 100% of one kind or 100% of another not 100% of one kind and 100% of another.
    Using deductive reasoning it is quite easy to see that since all these premises are true then Jesus is 100% human and 0% the one true God.

    The following is a comment about fallen human nature but is off topic though related. Feel free to address it as well.

    Assuming most people are rational human being it follows they should agree unless they suspend disbelief of the claim that Jesus is God. The suspension of disbelief is not faith but rather a form of denial. It is therefore an internal decision that rational arguments cannot address but rather requires the work of the Spirit.
     
  2. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Scripture says much more than this and you cannot use just one part of scripture and claim it as a fact. Paul also States and other places in Scripture Jesus Christ is our God and savior but of course you haven't shown those verses here, like Titus 2:11-13 which states;
    For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
     
    OzSpen likes this.
  3. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    278
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    For us, to say that Jesus was human is stating the obvious. So why should Paul bother putting it in? Because the early Christians had relatively little difficulty with the idea that Jesus was God; but some of them struggled with the concept of God becoming man.
     
  4. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    278
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Your third premise is an assertion. How do we know that it is true?
     
  5. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    StanJ,

    It is inductive reasoning and

    It is inductive reasoning and it works like math. Either my reasoning is flawed due to a flawed premise or the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Otherwise it is both sound and valid just like the statement 1+1 = 2 is a sound and valid argument.

    There is other parts of Scripture but there is not disagreement with my argument unless my argument is flawed.
     
  6. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    Jews would have trouble with the concept since their idea of the one true God is that his holiness is so great that he requires a mediator between him and humanity. Gentiles, on the other hand, words their rulers as gods, even their highest God. That is what the Emperor cult did though various sects would disagree on how the emperors were gods.

    The bottom line is that Scripture cannot broke so as long as my argument is both sound and valid then no other passage of Scripture will disagree with the conclusions.
     
  7. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    It is a math problem.

    100% is the whole and there cannot two wholes in one whole.

    Th claim there is would be to claim 1 + 1 = 1 and that is an untrue statement.
     
  8. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    It doesn't matter what kind of reasoning you call it, in the end it is flawed because Paul himself said Jesus Is God just as Peter said Jesus is God. You can't get any more flawed than you just were in this thread.
     
  9. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Nobody uses math to read, people use grammatical rules to read and in the case of the Bible hermeneutical exegesis, which apparently you don't understand one iota. The Bible unequivocally states that Jesus is God and no matter how you try to frame it you can't get past that fact. Now try using rules of grammar to read instead of rules of math.
     
    Truth likes this.
  10. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    StanJ,


    I am speaking of reason which is expressed with words or in the case of math with mathematical symbols.

    One reads math and they obtain the meaning of the symbols..

    One reads Scripture to obtain the meaning of it using reason.

    So hopefully people use reasoning to read or Jesus told the Sadducee that "Scripture cannot be set aside" for in vain.(John 10:35-36)

    I have seen those who have unsound premises based or bad grammar.

    Once again Scripture literally states Jesus is a human being and Scripture cannot be broken.
     
  11. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    Since I quoted Paul where he literally claims Jesus is a human being and you claim he contradictory claims he is the one true God. I don't believe you as Scripture cannot be broken.
     
  12. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,570
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Let me get this straight. Kerwin... Are you saying that Jesus was not God?
     
  13. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Your reasonings or rationale is irrelevant, as it's already been shown to be, and if scripture cannot be set aside then why don't you believe what both Peter and Paul said in calling Jesus God and savior? Your promise cannot be based on one verse in the Bible which is exactly what hermeneutical exegesis would tell you if you actually practiced it or knew what it meant?
     
  14. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Scripture may not be able to be broken but it can be misinterpreted by misguided people. Paul and Peter both state the Jesus was God and savior and you seem to be ignoring this in favor of your one sole verse. The Bible interprets itself it is not interpreted by people like you who eisegete one single scripture.
     
  15. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    I am stating that Scripture literally states Jesus is a human being and therefore Jesus cannot be the one true God.

    The meaning of the word god as Jimmy Hendrix, even though he is human" is sad to be the guitar god because of his skill at playing the guitar. So if you said Jesus is God then the statement is too vague to know the meaning you are attaching to the word god. So in some meaning of the word god Jesus is God but he is not the one true God.

    Sorry if what I wrote sounds confusing but human languages are easier to speak that discuss the mechanics of.
     
    bbyrd009 likes this.
  16. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    Yes, it can be misinterpreted which is why some people think it disagrees with itself and claims Jesus is 100% percent human and 100% God and that is impossible.
     
  17. Jun2u

    Jun2u Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    360
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Matthew 1:21:


    And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.





    Verse 23: Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.





    FYI a mere man cannot save people from their sins. Even the Pharisees knew that God is the only entity that can save someone from their sins that's the reason they had Him crucified BECAUSE He claimed to be God!





    To God Be The Glory
     
    Born_Again likes this.
  18. kerwin

    kerwin New Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    7
    Jesus was not a mere human being.

    He is not a mere human being as he is the first human being God chose to give God's own Spirit to.


    Matthew 12:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    The one true God does not have to be given God's Spirit because he already has.

    Jesus was given it because of his faith and he walked according to it because of his faith because it is written "the righteous will live by faith". (Romans 1:17)

    So you can see that Scripture cannot be broken though it can be hard to understand.
     
  19. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    That's not an answer that's deflection and you're still not acknowledging that Paul and Peter both said that Jesus was God and savior.
     
  20. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Heb 1:3
    The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
    Col 1:15
    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 2:9
    For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.
    1 Tim 4:10
    That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
    Titus 2:13
    While we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
    2 Peter 1:1
    To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.

    Scripture is not hard to understand at all and as you can see from the above it very plainly and clearly tells us that Jesus Christ is our God and savior.
     
Loading...