Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

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kerwin

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Premises;

  • Scripture states
1 Timothy 2:5-6New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

5 For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6 who gave himself as ransom for all.
This was the testimony[a] at the proper time.

Footnotes:

2:6 The testimony: to make sense of this overly concise phrase, many manuscripts supply “to which” (or “to whom”); two others add “was given.” The translation has supplied “this was.”
  • Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35-36)
  • A being is either of 100% of one kind or 100% of another not 100% of one kind and 100% of another.
Using deductive reasoning it is quite easy to see that since all these premises are true then Jesus is 100% human and 0% the one true God.

The following is a comment about fallen human nature but is off topic though related. Feel free to address it as well.

Assuming most people are rational human being it follows they should agree unless they suspend disbelief of the claim that Jesus is God. The suspension of disbelief is not faith but rather a form of denial. It is therefore an internal decision that rational arguments cannot address but rather requires the work of the Spirit.
 

StanJ

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Scripture says much more than this and you cannot use just one part of scripture and claim it as a fact. Paul also States and other places in Scripture Jesus Christ is our God and savior but of course you haven't shown those verses here, like Titus 2:11-13 which states;
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 
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Deborah_

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For us, to say that Jesus was human is stating the obvious. So why should Paul bother putting it in? Because the early Christians had relatively little difficulty with the idea that Jesus was God; but some of them struggled with the concept of God becoming man.
 

Deborah_

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kerwin said:
Premises;

  • Scripture states
  • 1 Timothy 2:5-6New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)


  • 5 For there is one God.
    There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
    Christ Jesus, himself human,
    6 who gave himself as ransom for all.
    This was the testimony[a] at the proper time.

[*]Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35-36)
[*]A being is either of 100% of one kind or 100% of another not 100% of one kind and 100% of another.
Using deductive reasoning it is quite easy to see that since all these premises are true then Jesus is 100% human and 0% the one true God.
Your third premise is an assertion. How do we know that it is true?
 

kerwin

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StanJ,

It is inductive reasoning and

StanJ said:
Scripture says much more than this and you cannot use just one part of scripture and claim it as a fact. Paul also States and other places in Scripture Jesus Christ is our God and savior but of course you haven't shown those verses here, like Titus 2:11-13 which states;
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
It is inductive reasoning and it works like math. Either my reasoning is flawed due to a flawed premise or the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Otherwise it is both sound and valid just like the statement 1+1 = 2 is a sound and valid argument.

There is other parts of Scripture but there is not disagreement with my argument unless my argument is flawed.
 

kerwin

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Deborah_ said:
For us, to say that Jesus was human is stating the obvious. So why should Paul bother putting it in? Because the early Christians had relatively little difficulty with the idea that Jesus was God; but some of them struggled with the concept of God becoming man.
Jews would have trouble with the concept since their idea of the one true God is that his holiness is so great that he requires a mediator between him and humanity. Gentiles, on the other hand, words their rulers as gods, even their highest God. That is what the Emperor cult did though various sects would disagree on how the emperors were gods.

The bottom line is that Scripture cannot broke so as long as my argument is both sound and valid then no other passage of Scripture will disagree with the conclusions.
 

kerwin

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Deborah_ said:
For us, to say that Jesus was human is stating the obvious. So why should Paul bother putting it in? Because the early Christians had relatively little difficulty with the idea that Jesus was God; but some of them struggled with the concept of God becoming man.
It is a math problem.

100% is the whole and there cannot two wholes in one whole.

Th claim there is would be to claim 1 + 1 = 1 and that is an untrue statement.
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
StanJ,
It is inductive reasoning and
It is inductive reasoning and it works like math. Either my reasoning is flawed due to a flawed premise or the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Otherwise it is both sound and valid just like the statement 1+1 = 2 is a sound and valid argument.
There is other parts of Scripture but there is not disagreement with my argument unless my argument is flawed.
It doesn't matter what kind of reasoning you call it, in the end it is flawed because Paul himself said Jesus Is God just as Peter said Jesus is God. You can't get any more flawed than you just were in this thread.
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
It is a math problem.
100% is the whole and there cannot two wholes in one whole.
Th claim there is would be to claim 1 + 1 = 1 and that is an untrue statement.
Nobody uses math to read, people use grammatical rules to read and in the case of the Bible hermeneutical exegesis, which apparently you don't understand one iota. The Bible unequivocally states that Jesus is God and no matter how you try to frame it you can't get past that fact. Now try using rules of grammar to read instead of rules of math.
 
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kerwin

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StanJ,


StanJ said:
Nobody uses math to read, people use grammatical rules to read and in the case of the Bible hermeneutical exegesis, which apparently you don't understand one iota. The Bible unequivocally states that Jesus is God and no matter how you try to frame it you can't get past that fact. Now try using rules of grammar to read instead of rules of math.
I am speaking of reason which is expressed with words or in the case of math with mathematical symbols.

One reads math and they obtain the meaning of the symbols..

One reads Scripture to obtain the meaning of it using reason.

So hopefully people use reasoning to read or Jesus told the Sadducee that "Scripture cannot be set aside" for in vain.(John 10:35-36)

I have seen those who have unsound premises based or bad grammar.

Once again Scripture literally states Jesus is a human being and Scripture cannot be broken.
 

kerwin

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StanJ said:
Nobody uses math to read, people use grammatical rules to read and in the case of the Bible hermeneutical exegesis, which apparently you don't understand one iota. The Bible unequivocally states that Jesus is God and no matter how you try to frame it you can't get past that fact. Now try using rules of grammar to read instead of rules of math.
Since I quoted Paul where he literally claims Jesus is a human being and you claim he contradictory claims he is the one true God. I don't believe you as Scripture cannot be broken.
 

FHII

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kerwin said:
Since I quoted Paul where he literally claims Jesus is a human being and you claim he contradictory claims he is the one true God. I don't believe you as Scripture cannot be broken.
Let me get this straight. Kerwin... Are you saying that Jesus was not God?
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
StanJ,
I am speaking of reason which is expressed with words or in the case of math with mathematical symbols.
One reads math and they obtain the meaning of the symbols..
One reads Scripture to obtain the meaning of it using reason.
So hopefully people use reasoning to read or Jesus told the Sadducee that "Scripture cannot be set aside" for in vain.(John 10:35-36)
I have seen those who have unsound premises based or bad grammar.
Once again Scripture literally states Jesus is a human being and Scripture cannot be broken.
Your reasonings or rationale is irrelevant, as it's already been shown to be, and if scripture cannot be set aside then why don't you believe what both Peter and Paul said in calling Jesus God and savior? Your promise cannot be based on one verse in the Bible which is exactly what hermeneutical exegesis would tell you if you actually practiced it or knew what it meant?
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
Since I quoted Paul where he literally claims Jesus is a human being and you claim he contradictory claims he is the one true God. I don't believe you as Scripture cannot be broken.
Scripture may not be able to be broken but it can be misinterpreted by misguided people. Paul and Peter both state the Jesus was God and savior and you seem to be ignoring this in favor of your one sole verse. The Bible interprets itself it is not interpreted by people like you who eisegete one single scripture.
 

kerwin

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FHII said:
Let me get this straight. Kerwin... Are you saying that Jesus was not God?
I am stating that Scripture literally states Jesus is a human being and therefore Jesus cannot be the one true God.

The meaning of the word god as Jimmy Hendrix, even though he is human" is sad to be the guitar god because of his skill at playing the guitar. So if you said Jesus is God then the statement is too vague to know the meaning you are attaching to the word god. So in some meaning of the word god Jesus is God but he is not the one true God.

Sorry if what I wrote sounds confusing but human languages are easier to speak that discuss the mechanics of.
 
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kerwin

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StanJ said:
Scripture may not be able to be broken but it can be misinterpreted by misguided people. Paul and Peter both state the Jesus was God and savior and you seem to be ignoring this in favor of your one sole verse. The Bible interprets itself it is not interpreted by people like you who eisegete one single scripture.
Yes, it can be misinterpreted which is why some people think it disagrees with itself and claims Jesus is 100% percent human and 100% God and that is impossible.
 

Jun2u

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Since I quoted Paul where he literally claims Jesus is a human being and you claim he contradictory claims he is the one true God. I don't believe you as Scripture cannot be broken.

Matthew 1:21:


And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.





Verse 23: Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.





FYI a mere man cannot save people from their sins. Even the Pharisees knew that God is the only entity that can save someone from their sins that's the reason they had Him crucified BECAUSE He claimed to be God!





To God Be The Glory
 
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kerwin

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Jun2u said:
Matthew 1:21:


And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.





Verse 23: Behold a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.





FYI a mere man cannot save people from their sins. Even the Pharisees knew that God is the only entity that can save someone from their sins that's the reason they had Him crucified BECAUSE He claimed to be God!





To God Be The Glory
Jesus was not a mere human being.

He is not a mere human being as he is the first human being God chose to give God's own Spirit to.


Matthew 12:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

The one true God does not have to be given God's Spirit because he already has.

Jesus was given it because of his faith and he walked according to it because of his faith because it is written "the righteous will live by faith". (Romans 1:17)

So you can see that Scripture cannot be broken though it can be hard to understand.
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
Yes, it can be misinterpreted which is why some people think it disagrees with itself and claims Jesus is 100% percent human and 100% God and that is impossible.
That's not an answer that's deflection and you're still not acknowledging that Paul and Peter both said that Jesus was God and savior.
 

StanJ

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kerwin said:
Jesus was not a mere human being.
He is not a mere human being as he is the first human being God chose to give God's own Spirit to.

Matthew 12:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

The one true God does not have to be given God's Spirit because he already has.
Jesus was given it because of his faith and he walked according to it because of his faith because it is written "the righteous will live by faith". (Romans 1:17)
So you can see that Scripture cannot be broken though it can be hard to understand.
Heb 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Col 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.
1 Tim 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
Titus 2:13
While we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:1
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.

Scripture is not hard to understand at all and as you can see from the above it very plainly and clearly tells us that Jesus Christ is our God and savior.