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Jesus Is God: Part 1

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Hidden In Him, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    The world equals Israel? Or does it equal what each of had from our beginning as men of flesh born from dead parents? Would that not be more of a Jacob than an Israel?

    "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
    And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:15-17

    If a man physically dies and has never done the will of God, then he has nothing but the death which belonged to all men since Adam and Eve our first natural parents disobeyed God. During our physical existence we still had hope, but when the physical body dies and we have not taken hold of the Hope [Jesus and the Holy Ghost] which God provided, then we have nothing left, not even hope!
     
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  2. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Who is the proper Interpreter to provide the proper translation?

    "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
    If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
    But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:26-28

    It is, I believe, the Holy Spirit and certainly it is in that way that God speaks through a man. Going to school or schooling oneself in the original languages can be a good tool, but without the real Interpreter, would not silence be a better thing?
     
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  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    There has to be something different between the worlds.
    Because God so loved the world, that he gave his only begooten son, that whosoever believeth in him should be saved.

    So on one hand God loved the world, on the other hand we are not to love the world neither the things in the world.

    What is the difference between the two worlds?

    Hugs Amadeus
    :)
     
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  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking that God sees the spirit potential in the world, and man only sees the carnal potential.
    Just thinking
     
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  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Hello sister! Thanks for the hugs!

    "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" John 16:33

    Jesus did not overcome planet Earth! He overcame the world of his own flesh which was tempted even as each of are. The temptations for Jesus stopped before He went to the cross and died.

    "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

    Jesus was still on planet Earth and he still had to go the cross, but I believe his last temptation was overcome here:

    "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.: Matt 26:39

    After that would have come the words of John 16:33..
    "I have overcome the world"

    Each of us needs to do what Jesus did: overcome the little world of self which is still tempted to sin. Jesus said He was no longer "in the world", but we are and the work lies before us and the power through the Holy Spirit is available to accomplish it... if we do not continuously quench the Holy Spirit in us hindering the necessary work... So then we see the promises to overcomers here:

    Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
    Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
    Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
    Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
    Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
    Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    So then to the work! Jesus expressed it this way:

    "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
    As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5

    Now we are the Light of the world, but we too must by the Holy Spirit overcome the temptations so that we similarly are not IN this world of self [the old man needing to be killed]. Is selfishness gone from us now?

    Here are the temptations in each of our little worlds described:

    "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    That thinking is not an evil thing if your heart is also open to God. Our thinking alone can and does lead us in trouble, which could be or become sin! The following words from a song penned by a man of God who passed from this life of flesh some about 20 years ago come to mind:

    "Lord, my heart is open,
    Won't You come inside!
    Fill up all my being
    Ever to abide"
     
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  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I always try to see it from God's perspective with the mind He is blessing me with.
    Looking at things from a 40,000 foot view and across the horizon.

    You always here the question: What would Jesus do?

    You can't know unless you open your mind to think like him.
    Let this mind be in you..
    You have to Let it.

    So I thought.. if everything in and of the world is evil, why did God love it enough to save it?
    What did He see that was worth saving?

    And knowing that God looks on the heart and not on the outward appearance,
    I came to the conclusion that God saw man's spiritual potential to return to Him.

    But because we are flesh and are weak, the world in which we live, being carnal in nature, is very dangerous to tinker with.
    So while God loved the world, knowing the spiritual outcome, we should not love the world according to our own carnal desires.

    Something like that..
    You know what I mean
    :)

    HUGS
     
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  8. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    This is the world of the old man of each of us. When we are born to woman we only have Hope. When we are born again or born from above, then we have encountered real Life, Life that need not ever end!

    I believe that one function of the new man of us is to finally and completely kill the old man of us. This is what Jesus did in himself when he overcame all of the temptations within his flesh before going to the cross. On the cross he suffered pain and anguish, which indeed was his cup. He was no longer asking the Father to remove the "cup." He was drinking the cup! Are we able to drink our cup?

    "But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
    And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Matt 20:22-23



    Aye He is looking within us to see what we have been doing and are doing with what He has given us to use... We are still only steward s until we actually inherit!

    What happens to bad stewards? They do not inherit!

    "His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strowed:
    Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
    Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
    For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matt 25:26-30
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I "HOPE" I am being a good steward with the talents the Lord has trusted me with so far.
    I'm not seeking my own praise, I'm seeking His.

    Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers...

    I suppose what I am trying to do is exchange my thoughts for His thoughts, and my ways for His ways.
    So that when He returns those thoughts will not return unto Him void.

    Somewhere along the years of my life, The Lord put this path in front of my feet.
    And everywhere I turn now I see things so much differently than I ever did before.
    It's not about me.
    It's about us.
    You and you and you and you... praying with others, for others, sharing joy and sorrow.
    I live alone, but I am never alone.

    I like this change. It feels good, even when things in life are going bad.
    And everyday this change is taking on a more solid reassurance that I'm on the right path.

    There's no turning back now. No burying the head in the sand.
    Are there obstacles along the way? Sure there is. But overcoming them feels awesome.
    And I know I'm not walking alone. And I know I can't move mountains alone.
    His presence is with me always now. It wasn't always this way. I would come and go, in and out of His presence.
    He gave me free range. I don't want to come and go anymore. I am at Peace.

    Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    Hugs
    :)
     
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  10. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Oy vey. The text reads "God" gave "Jesus" a revelation. This is not how language is used where one person is involved. One does not Joe Biden gave himself a thing; one says Joe took a thing.
     
  11. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Give God the glory! He is able in every situation. We need to trust Him and surrender to Him repeatedly as needed!
     
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  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Guess that could be it. Maybe He is saying I spoke openly to dead men.
     
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  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    When did God give Jesus this revelation?
    Before or after he was born?

    Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    Here we go with worlds again..
    Which world began?
    the one before the flood, or the present one before Calvary, or the one Paul is speaking in?

    Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    This revelation, by the scriptures of the prophets..
    Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    This revelation..
    Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    This revelation..
    Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
    Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    The more I look the more interesting it becomes...
    How did Paul come by the Revelation of Jesus Christ?
    I'm thinking on the road to Damascus maybe?

    It says that this Revelation was given to John by an angel...
    Is Paul the angel? messenger?

    Oh how the plot thickens..
    This could be good.

    God gave unto him, who him?

    interesting...
    Hugs
     
  14. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, all of us have been dead and if we have spoken at all, we have almost certainly spoken to dead men. Are our words spoken to dead men necessarily idle words?
     
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  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
    Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
    Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

    Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
    Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave unto ...... him.


    Yeah I know what your thinking...
    It's ok though..
    Because we all have to drink from the same cup.

    That baptism of fire.. that's that pit.. and when your old man get's tossed in, he aint coming back out.
    And all those sins that we carried on our back before coming to know the Lord,
    they get tossed in there too.

    And we should pray that we be found worthy to suffer for His names sake, just like Paul.

    What other revelation is there but the revelation that was given to him, who him? Paul him.. by God.
    what is the gospel that was preached of Paul? Not by Paul, but of Paul.

    And Paul recieved this revelation from the Lord's mouth.

    Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

    NLT: I went there because God revealed to me that I should go. While I was there I met privately with those considered to be leaders of the church and shared with them the message I had been preaching to the Gentiles. I wanted to make sure that we were in agreement, for fear that all my efforts had been wasted and I was running the race for nothing.

    shared the message..

    Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Everybody gets salted with fire...

    Mar 9:49
    For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
    just saying..

    My whole perspective on the book of Revelation has been changing over time.
    I don't see it as an external war but rather an internal war. And we all have to face the beast within us, and be conquered, and overcome.
    None of us are perfect no not one, and some of us are or were worse than others.
    Paul when he was Saul was a very evil man. But the Lord put him to the test.
    And he got refined in the fire.
    and salted..
    Until Saul no longer existed, and Paul became a new man, with a new stone, with a new name written.

    That's me and my perspective..
    Paul and I had that battle awhile ago..
    And he walked the walk no other man had walked before.
    He paid for his sins. Beatings, and shipwrecks, hunger and thirst...
    And in the end lived to tell about it.

    I just never noticed who the him was who received the revelation..
    Paul tells us himself.. it was him.. who him? Paul.

    And those letters were sent to the churches.. by Paul.
    We read them in all his epistles...

    interesting..
    Hugs
     
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  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Only if they fall on deaf ears.
    :)
    HUGS
     
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  17. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Ziggy I am reminded of Jeremiah 22.29: "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD."
     
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  18. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Waiting on him Paul in Ephesians 2 says: "And you hath He quickened, which were dead..."
     
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  19. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I would say that being born of God would also be accredited to Him.
     
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Waiting on him Yes, and I think in the context of that passage this is what Paul is referring to...
     
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