Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[APAK]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

 

[Windmillcharge]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No!

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being

John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

 

[Armadillo]

Choose one,

Jesus is God in the flesh or psychotic.

 

[bbyrd009]

think i'll stick with what He claimed, "Son of Man."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus said "I am" several times, the pharisees wanted to stone him once for that.
Why?
Because he was claiming to be God.
Plus Apostle Paul called him God several times.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If you are denying this, then you are admitting you don't understand Christianity.

 

[APAK]

John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

Windmillcharge: I answered this section of scripture for someone else recently..
I'm a bit lazy so I thought I would cut and paste it in here for you as my answer...
John 10:30…

It was a common expression then and even today “I and the Father are one.” Of course, translations and into English today, we do lose some of the words that would give us a clearer meaning. As with a lot of verses we tend to take them always literally, word for word, and it’s a mistake. And I’m not talking about those intentionally meant to be poetic of symbolic in nature. Just the everyday lingo.

A close translation of the expression under study here would be ‘I’m very much like my Father’ as in internal and external characteristics and goals… my thoughts (as I also listen to my Father and know was he wants, pretty much and I do it), and the inflections, voice, words and mannerisms and facial expressions.

It never means that that the son is the same person or spirit. If it did it would not be that cryptic. Scripture would say something like ‘My spirit is the same spirit as my Father.’ It does not, so we cannot wish that it does. No, the Father and Jesus worked very closely together in thought and deed. In fact, I would say his Father was actually speaking to Jesus at the most critical times to the cross.

Remember or look up 1 Corinthians 3:8: Paul was saying that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” This is all about teamwork. See I’ve found one of few scriptures that supports my thinking. Those who read this verse of John 10:30 just see ‘one spirit’ because their religion and their trinity model of belief programs them to see this only. I call it cherry-picking and blind interpretation.

I hope that helps seeing my view.

..the immediate context also supports my interpretation of John 10:30

(Joh 10:25) Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,

(Joh 10:26) but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

(Joh 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

(Joh 10:28) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

(Joh 10:29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

(Joh 10:30) I and the Father are one.”

(Joh 10:31) The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.

You and the Pharisees think alike......as Jesus never meant he was saying he was God Almighty

(Joh 10:32) Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

(Joh 10:33) The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (ALL ESV)

Jesus speaks of the works he is doing for the Father. He wants his audience to know his works are for the Father. Believers would know that this was true. Jesus said all his believers have been chosen/given to him by his Father. Then he accents the fact that he and his Father are working together for the mission of generating believers for eternal life.

Jesus was/is the shepherd and would be the spirit within each believer to eternal life. Just like many today, the Pharisees could not come to grips that Jesus was a crucial part of the plan of salvation as the servant shepherd herding his followers to their final destination.

His Father gave him this work. The Father is not doing this work, Jesus is doing it. The Father was/is the planner and the giver of believers to his son and his son in-turn will see they all get to the sheep station in heaven.

Bless you,



APAK

 

[APAK]

Jesus said "I am" several times, the pharisees wanted to stone him once for that.
Why?
Because he was claiming to be God.
Plus Apostle Paul called him God several times.

Rollo: The Pharisees were blind to who Jesus was. They never did figure him out and they never wanted to. It was the last straw when he described himself as working with his Father or they wanted to believe he was blaspheming. They just wanted to get rid of him without any interest in knowing him. Look as the previous verse. Now was he really saying he was the same as God Almighty here? Be completely honest.
"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." Now to any reasonable person Jesus is saying by inference that God Almighty his Father is greater than him....I think you're cherry-picking and wanting to believe in a belief model you have been taught and is engrained into you, like many folks. You cannot free yourself for this lens of the trinity and deep bias toward it.

Look up as my #7 post...I go through it in more detail...

Later...APAK

 

[Windmillcharge]

Jesus speaks of the works he is doing for the Father. He wants his audience to know his works are for the Father. Believers would know that this was true. Jesus said all his believers have been chosen/given to him by his Father. Then he accents the fact that he and his Father are working together for the mission of generating believers for eternal life.

Unfortunetly Jesus makes it clearer in the next few verse.

John 10: 34. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are "gods"’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo: The Pharisees were blind to who Jesus was. They never did figure him out and they never wanted to. It was the last straw when he described himself as working with his Father or they wanted to believe he was blaspheming. They just wanted to get rid of him without any interest in knowing him. Look as the previous verse. Now was he really saying he was the same as God Almighty here? Be completely honest.
"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." Now to any reasonable person Jesus is saying by inference that God Almighty his Father is greater than him....I think you're cherry-picking and wanting to believe in a belief model you have been taught and is engrained into you, like many folks. You cannot free yourself for this lens of the trinity and deep bias toward it.

Look up as my #7 post...I go through it in more detail...

Later...APAK

You sound like a pharisee yourself
I bet you would have thrown the first stone

 

[APAK]

Jesus said "I am" several times, the Pharisees wanted to stone him once for that.
Why?
Because he was claiming to be God.
Plus Apostle Paul called him God several times.

More cherry-picking a verse to suit the creature called the trinity belief model again…

I believe you are referring to John 8:58..let me get the context by surrounding it with scripture before and after it.

(Joh 8:48) The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

(Joh 8:49) Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

(Joh 8:50) Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.

(Joh 8:51) Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

(Joh 8:52) The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’

(Joh 8:53) Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?”

(Joh 8:54) Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’

(Joh 8:55) But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word.

(Joh 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

(Joh 8:57) So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

(Joh 8:58) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

(Joh 8:59) So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (ALL ESV)

Now the Pharisees recognized the common expression of I AM (he/she) that Jesus used. It means that I AM he in the most definite and prejudice way possible. The Hebrew have it as meaning ‘I will be what/who I will be.’ It has NOTHING to do with Divinity or God Almighty.

It’s like someone accusing you of stealing money from the Catholic church when you were 9 years old. You would reply, It, is/was I AM!

In scripture notice that the Pharisees accuse Jesus of being greater that Abraham. Jesus was saying he is more important that Abraham even before he was born. Not that he meant I am God Almighty. Big difference, indeed.

Abraham knew of Jesus’ future birth and its significance and rejoiced. Abraham would have known Jesus was superior to him. Again, the Pharisees were ignorant like a lot of folks today that think like them. If the Pharisees thought, he was saying he was God they would have slammed in for that. Instead they slammed him for saying he was greater than Abraham.

They knew the common expression quite well.

The ‘I AM’ expression is a common term used both in the OT and NT. Again, it does not mean the divinity of God or God Almighty. Many folks have used it as a support for the trinity which is false. They have been unfortunately misled.

There was a blind man healed by Jesus, he used the expression I AM the man…..now we know the blind man was not God Almighty, right?

Paul even used the expression I AM, (Act 26:29) And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains.”

The only reason why ‘I am’ in this verse is not capitalized is because most Bible translators were trinitarians. They were very biased and capitalized where wanted to..

There are more ‘I AMs’ in Matthew Mark Luke and John…

For example:

(Joh 8:24) I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM he you will die in your sins.”(added capital ‘AM’ for correctness)

(Joh 8:28) So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. (ALL ESV)

Rollo, where does Paul call Jesus God? Point to the other I AMs of Jesus words, I bet can be explains as I've done here.
I would like to see the scripture.


Bless you

APAK

 

[APAK]

Unfortunetly Jesus makes it clearer in the next few verse.

John 10: 34. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are "gods"’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Yes he made it clear that he was the son of God and he and his Father were working as one in spirit and purpose. What are you trying to say, that Jesus is saying I AM God Almighty...I think not.

Re-read it again, quietly and thoughtfully...the enter John 10 chapter if you have to get the correct meaning..
You know cherry-picking and misapplying scripture is not the way to learn scripture. If all you want to do it keeping TRYING to prove a mythical trinity belief model and blurting out some verse that you think 'fits' by FORCE, they I'm not interested in being a part of it.

Based on experience, there are about 60-80 verses that I've seen thrown out thoughtlessly that are meant to support your god of the trinity. I've also answered everyone of them in the past in detail. I will not entertain or consider anyone being serious if I see these added by the threes or more in your reply. How much time do you think I have in one setting to answer them? Put yourself in my shoes..right?..be considerate. I will answer then all in good time if you want to provide me them, or not. I do not and will not lie to you in my answers.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

More cherry-picking a verse to suit the creature called the trinity belief model again…

I believe you are referring to John 8:58..let me get the context by surrounding it with scripture before and after it.

(Joh 8:48) The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

(Joh 8:49) Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

(Joh 8:50) Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.

(Joh 8:51) Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

(Joh 8:52) The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’

(Joh 8:53) Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?”

(Joh 8:54) Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’

(Joh 8:55) But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word.

(Joh 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

(Joh 8:57) So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

(Joh 8:58) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

(Joh 8:59) So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (ALL ESV)

Now the Pharisees recognized the common expression of I AM (he/she) that Jesus used. It means that I AM he in the most definite and prejudice way possible. The Hebrew have it as meaning ‘I will be what/who I will be.’ It has NOTHING to do with Divinity or God Almighty.

It’s like someone accusing you of stealing money from the Catholic church when you were 9 years old. You would reply, It, is/was I AM!

In scripture notice that the Pharisees accuse Jesus of being greater that Abraham. Jesus was saying he is more important that Abraham even before he was born. Not that he meant I am God Almighty. Big difference, indeed.

Abraham knew of Jesus’ future birth and its significance and rejoiced. Abraham would have known Jesus was superior to him. Again, the Pharisees were ignorant like a lot of folks today that think like them. If the Pharisees thought, he was saying he was God they would have slammed in for that. Instead they slammed him for saying he was greater than Abraham.

They knew the common expression quite well.

The ‘I AM’ expression is a common term used both in the OT and NT. Again, it does not mean the divinity of God or God Almighty. Many folks have used it as a support for the trinity which is false. They have been unfortunately misled.

There was a blind man healed by Jesus, he used the expression I AM the man…..now we know the blind man was not God Almighty, right?

Paul even used the expression I AM, (Act 26:29) And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains.”

The only reason why ‘I am’ in this verse is not capitalized is because most Bible translators were trinitarians. They were very biased and capitalized where wanted to..

There are more ‘I AMs’ in Matthew Mark Luke and John…

For example:

(Joh 8:24) I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM he you will die in your sins.”(added capital ‘AM’ for correctness)

(Joh 8:28) So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. (ALL ESV)

Rollo, where does Paul call Jesus God? Point to the other I AMs of Jesus words, I bet can be explains as I've done here.
I would like to see the scripture.


Bless you

APAK

You have expressed your opinion very well.
Now I will quote you Scripture;
Titus 2:13; ...while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, ....

Jesus is God and Jesus is our blessed hope
Deny him as your Lord and Savior and you have nothing.

 

[APAK]

You have expressed your opinion very well.
Now I will quote you Scripture;
Titus 2:13; ...while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, ....

Jesus is God and Jesus is our blessed hope
Deny him as your Lord and Savior and you have nothing.

Rollo:

(Tit 2:13) waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (ESV)

And what does it say here and in other parts of scripture about the GLORY of our great God. Wait for it, wait for it….it is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the GLORY of God ALMIGHTY. He is his masterpiece creation that he planned many moons ago. It is none other than Jesus who prayed to the Father on the heels of his death on the cross to give him the GLORY that his Father promised and planned for him, before the creation of man.

So, what is your point. It is about our Lord and Savior. So why do you think I do not believe he is not? No need to worry anymore, I do and always have and will.

Again, Jesus is not equal to God Almighty. Nice cherry-picking again

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo:

(Tit 2:13) waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (ESV)

And what does it say here and in other parts of scripture about the GLORY of our great God. Wait for it, wait for it….it is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the GLORY of God ALMIGHTY. He is his masterpiece creation that he planned many moons ago. It is none other than Jesus who prayed to the Father on the heels of his death on the cross to give him the GLORY that his Father promised and planned for him, before the creation of man.

So, what is your point. It is about our Lord and Savior. So why do you think I do not believe he is not? No need to worry anymore, I do and always have and will.

Again, Jesus is not equal to God Almighty. Nice cherry-picking again

Bless you,

APAK

With this type of answer, it shows there is a lot in Scripture that you don't believe, starting with John 1:1.

 

[GodsGrace]

Rollo:

(Tit 2:13) waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (ESV)

And what does it say here and in other parts of scripture about the GLORY of our great God. Wait for it, wait for it….it is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the GLORY of God ALMIGHTY. He is his masterpiece creation that he planned many moons ago. It is none other than Jesus who prayed to the Father on the heels of his death on the cross to give him the GLORY that his Father promised and planned for him, before the creation of man.

So, what is your point. It is about our Lord and Savior. So why do you think I do not believe he is not? No need to worry anymore, I do and always have and will.

Again, Jesus is not equal to God Almighty. Nice cherry-picking again

Bless you,

APAK

Apak, did you ever answer me? I don't think so.
If Jesus is not God, aren't we worshipping a man?
Perhaps you answered that you don't worship Him.
That's ok if that's what you believe but then you can't call yourself a Christian.

 

[aspen]

APAK what denomination do you attend?

 

[APAK]

With this type of answer, it shows there is a lot in Scripture that you don't believe, starting with John 1:1.

Rollo:
The answer I gave was completely correct. Scripture has to be pieced together without force.

John 1:1 and for that matter the John 1:2 and John 1:14 has no foundation for the non-revisionist meaning. The early writers just made Jesus = word without any foundation. I just don't buy it, especially when they deliberately changed the origin meaning of Greek word 'logos' to suit themselves and their agenda and it does not fit into scripture anywhere else unless you 'force it' in, because all meanings now have to conform to a mistake. Scripture has to flow together smoothly and in harmony. If it does not do this, I put on the brakes until it is fixed, however long it takes. I just don't do group-think when it comes to scripture interpretation.

You see I believe the word in John 1 means the 'plan' of salvation for mankind. This is what was with God from the beginning of his MIND and from the BEGINNING of time and also it was present when the GOSPEL was preached. John uses a a double meaning. The other reporters of the gospel just cite the single meaning: the beginning meaning of the start of preaching the gospel by John the Baptist. John gets to it fairly quickly after his opening preamble about why God Almighty gave us his plan, gospel and salvation for men. John was more poetic in his writing that the other three and other NT writers. You have to observe his style of writing...

Now in John 1:14a the plan of God was WITHIN and COMPLETED by a human, named Jesus; the word (plan off salvation) became (manifested by. through) flesh. Quite straight forward and in line with John's writing style. Jesus was the instrument or vehicle used to execute the glorious Plan of God. It makes no sense to literally place Jesus in for word. Jesus became flesh.

Of course he did. No won​

der they then used it then to support his pre-existence when he had none. Like making fiat money out of thin air. NO, the plan of God from the beginning was already set for a human savior to complete the task that God COULD NOT DO..It had to be a human sacrifice.

And John 1:14b says the apostles knew Christ's resurrection from the dead (his glory) after sacrificing his life; full of grace and truth. This part of the verse 1:14b nearly everyone overlooks. Why, who knows? It has relevant meaning and context to the first part..I'll stop here...

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo:
The answer I gave was completely correct. Scripture has to be pieced together without force.

John 1:1 and for that matter the John 1:2 and John 1:14 has no foundation for the non-revisionist meaning. The early writers just made Jesus = word without any foundation. I just don't buy it, especially when they deliberately changed the origin meaning of Greek word 'logos' to suit themselves and their agenda and it does not fit into scripture anywhere else unless you 'force it' in, because all meanings now have to conform to a mistake. Scripture has to flow together smoothly and in harmony. If it does not do this, I put on the brakes until it is fixed, however long it takes. I just don't do group-think when it comes to scripture interpretation.

You see I believe the word in John 1 means the 'plan' of salvation for mankind. This is what was with God from the beginning of his MIND and from the BEGINNING of time and also it was present when the GOSPEL was preached. John uses a a double meaning. The other reporters of the gospel just cite the single meaning: the beginning meaning of the start of preaching the gospel by John the Baptist. John gets to it fairly quickly after his opening preamble about why God Almighty gave us his plan, gospel and salvation for men. John was more poetic in his writing that the other three and other NT writers. You have to observe his style of writing...

Now in John 1:14a the plan of God was WITHIN and COMPLETED by a human, named Jesus; the word (plan off salvation) became (manifested by. through) flesh. Quite straight forward and in line with John's writing style. Jesus was the instrument or vehicle used to execute the glorious Plan of God. It makes no sense to literally place Jesus in for word. Jesus became flesh.

Of course he did. No won​

der they then used it then to support his pre-existence when he had none. Like making fiat money out of thin air. NO, the plan of God from the beginning was already set for a human savior to complete the task that God COULD NOT DO..It had to be a human sacrifice.

And John 1:14b says the apostles knew Christ's resurrection from the dead (his glory) after sacrificing his life; full of grace and truth. This part of the verse 1:14b nearly everyone overlooks. Why, who knows? It has relevant meaning and context to the first part..I'll stop here...

APAK

Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[APAK]

Apak, did you ever answer me? I don't think so.
If Jesus is not God, aren't we worshipping a man?
Perhaps you answered that you don't worship Him.
That's ok if that's what you believe but then you can't call yourself a Christian.

Just got back in and answered Rollo..
Do you actually worship Jesus or God? Jesus was just a man if that is astonishing to you with a big difference. He was the son of God and is our Lord and Savior. Yes he was once a man and was born different from any man. He has the spirit of his Father in his heart from conception. So if you are trying to paint a 'mere man' picture around my head it will not work. He was a spirit -led human from the start. You know I'll explained this to others many, many times and they still don't get it or don't want to. They don't get his Baptism as well...not my problem..
I worship God and bow down to my Lord as the last Adam and the first of the new creation, as the King of the Kingdom of God: there is a difference and it must be understood..
stop here....

APAK