John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!

[theQuestioneer]

John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2- He was in the beginning with God;
3- all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Now Trinitarians have Triune Tunnel Vision, focusing only only the "with"!

Do you have to explain "WITH" according to the English language, throwing in Church Lingo?
Moses was referred to as God, the angel to Gideon is referred to as God- so we have in biblical language the fact that people representing God are referred to as such.

The Bible speaks of God creating all things THROUGH Jesus- according to the English language, or do we have to throw in Church Lingo, to make the dogma 'make sense'?

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 1:18- No one has ever seen God; the only son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Thousands saw the son.
John, writing this later, knew that he was with Him.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 1:33- And I myself did not know him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me,
"The man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the holy spirit."
34 -I have seen and I testify that this is God's Chosen One.

Not God.
Not 'God-the-Son'.
God's Chosen one!

 

[Wrangler]

I've posted this numerous times. Doubt trinitarians watch it.

(2601) John's Prologue - Part 1 - YouTube

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 1:35- The next day John was there again with two of his disciples.
36 -When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"

Not, "Look! It's GOD!" , nor, "Look! It's God-the Lamb!", not 'God-the-Son'!
The Lamb >>> OF <<< God.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 1:49- Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the son of God; you are the king of Israel."

NOT "Rabbi, you are God-the-Son; you are the king of Israel."
NOT "Rabbi, you are God; you are the king of Israel!"

EVERY Jew knew what a "son" was!

(Not that translators play "Caps Games". There is none in the biblical languages)

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 2:13- When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14- In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.
15- So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the
money changers and overturned their tables.
16- To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father's house into a market!"

Not "MY House!"
And EVERY Jew knew what a father is!

He was FURIOUS over how they had defiled his God's TEMPLE!
True WORSHIP!

 

[Wrangler]

While trinitarians obsessively rely on the figurative John 1:1, they ignore the rest of the Gospel of John provides some of the most explicitly damning evidence against trinitarianism in all of Scripture. From my devotional reading the other day, we learn Jesus admits he is a man who heard from God, in his unitarian nature, who alone is the Father.


As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that! 41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!”
John 8:40-41

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 3:1- Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2- He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God.
For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him."

Jesus didn't correct him- how COULD he, when it was true!
God Himself ('Themselves' in the Trinity Dogma) didn't come- but God had SENT him.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 3:16- For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17- For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18- Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have
not believed in the name of God's one and only son.

Always quoted by the churches- never believed- for they believe God HIMSELF/Themselves came to Earth!

 

[Wrangler]

16- To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father's house into a market!"

Not "MY House!"

The Father = God. This is stated in every epistle. Not once is God, the Holy Spirit, mentioned. Not once is God, the Son, mentioned. The obvious reason is this is not what the Bible writers believed.

And he will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
Psalm 89:26

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
Colossians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.
1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.
Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring
James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy.
1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father.
2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father
2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father.
Revelation 1:6

 

[theQuestioneer]

I am focusing on the context of John.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 3:34- For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the spirit without limit.
35- The Father loves the son and has placed everything in his hands.
36- Whoever believes in the son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Notice how, as ALWAYS God is spoken of as someone ELSE- NOT JESUS?
Notice how, as ALWAYS God is spoken of as GIVING spirit?

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:18- No one has ever seen God; the only son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Thousands saw the son.
John, writing this later, knew that he was with Him.

John 1:35- The next day John was there again with two of his disciples.
36 -When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"

Not, "Look! It's GOD!" , nor, "Look! It's God-the Lamb!", not 'God-the-Son'!
The Lamb >>> OF <<< God.

Trinitarians have to abandon logic, definition and language usage at every turn to support their doctrine. The VOICE translation does not use the word "Christ" which translates into Anointed. Who Anoints in the Bible? God. Jesus very title is Anointed by God. His very title tells you he is not God.

The same with the title Son of God. The very title tells you the Son is not the Father, God. It's so ridiculous.

 

[Wrangler]

I am focusing on the context of John.

I know. Just wanted to show the consistently of John to the rest of Scripture.

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

The resurrected Jesus first words were to talk of his God. Jesus' God is the only God.

 

[theQuestioneer]

John 5:16- So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.
17- In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I too am working."
18- For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God
his own Father, making himself equal with God.

(That is how they took his words- JUST as Churchianity does , altho Christ, as always, taught Him as separate; did he confirm or deny it? Pay attention to his answer!)

19- Jesus gave them this answer:
"Very truly I tell you, the son can do NOTHING by himself; he can do ONLY what he sees his Father doing,
because whatever the Father does the son also does.

[Does that sound like Jesus is Supreme? Almighty? 'Co-Equal'?
JESUS illustrates how he had to follow the direction of his God and Father]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If this is all you have, You have a weak argument

The triunity of God is found by taking all of scripture. Not a few verses in John 1.

As for with God.. The greek word means in the presence of. It would not make sense to say he was God twice.

 

[theQuestioneer]

Does THIS sound like a 'God-the-Son'? A 1/3 'Co-Equal' God/person, nature?
Or the son of God (the EXACT OPOSITE)?-

John 5: 30 - By myself I can do nothing; judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to
please myself but Him who sent me.
31- If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
36 - I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish the very
works that I am doing testify that the Father has sent me.
37- And the Father who sent me has Himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor
seen his form.

Even JESUS confirms God HASN'T been SEEN (as he once was), and refers to God as a separate entity.

 

[Wrangler]

If this is all you have, You have a weak argument

The triunity of God is found by taking all of scripture. Not a few verses in John 1.

1st, this thread is about John 1.

2nd, it is a rock solid argument when looking at the totality of Scripture, which does not one time mention the trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Not one time! Sure, all kinds of ambiguous statements, like John 1:1 are desperately reached for but fail basic scrutiny.

What does a singular pronoun refer to? 1 or 3?

 

[theQuestioneer]

If this is all you have, You have a weak argument
The triunity of God is found by taking all of scripture. Not a few verses in John 1.
As for with God.. The greek word means in the presence of. It would not make sense to say he was God twice.

Poor EG, it's not John 1:1 taken out of CONTEXT, but the entire book of John where Jesus refers to him.
Or, that isn't ENOUGH?