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Featured JOHN 3:1 ISRAEL MUST BE BORN AGAIN

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Doug, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

    3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    To see the kingdom of God a man must be born again.

    The kingdom being spoken of is the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth, in which Christ will reign along with the believing remnant, the Israel of God (Exodus 19:5-6 Luke 12:32 Psalm 22:28 Galatians 6:16).

    To enter into the kingdom a man must be born of water and of the Spirit. Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus; believe he was the Messiah, the Son of God (John 20:31 1 John 5:13). Jesus is saying that Israel had to repent and confess their sins as a nation and be water baptized and receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

    The Holy Spirit under the fulfillment of the new testament will cleanse Israel with water and put a new spirit in them and cause them to walk in his statutes, keep his judgments, and do them (Ezekiel 36:24-28).

    Jesus in saying "Ye must be born again" speaks of the nation of Israel.
     
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  2. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    The Jews will only have salvation when they accept Christ as their Messiah.
     
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  3. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Doug...this is pure conjecture and not the truth. Do not attempt to teach or declare such things.

    1) The kingdom is not on earth, but "of God", that kingdom that Christ has entered into, from which He comes again, "that where He is, we might be also." In other words, not here on the earth, but where Christ went to be with "the Father."

    2) Israel did not need "to believe on the name of Jesus." On the contrary, they did not. They needed to believe in Messiah, which for the most part, they did. They just didn't believe that Jesus was that Messiah, and therefore they died in their sins, only to be saved in death. They are "the dead in Christ."

    3) What Jesus said of salvation, after Israel rejected Him, was then given to the gentiles.

    4) Water baptism, as all things taught to Israel, was only a foreshadowing of what was to come, just as it is even now. It is not the water that saves, but rather the Holy Spirit (the spirit of God) and new birth from on high. Israel as a nation received this with Christ the first born of the Spirit, as those who died under penalty of law.

    But the gentiles and those who are not born under the law are not subject to the law. Nonetheless, by the grace of God salvation has been extended to every nation and people according to the promise to Abraham that he would be a blessing to all nations. Thus, water baptism is still only a foreshadowing, and the Holy Spirit, according to the prophecy of Joel, is poured out upon all people, for some unto death and others unto life everlasting.

    5) As for the nation of Israel, they are all already dead..."the dead in Christ." The bloodline died with Christ who was "the Last", who's blood has been poured out as a sacrifice. "It is finished."

    6) What Jesus said of needing to be born again, is not just for Israel, but for all who would enter the spiritual kingdom of God, which is not of this world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You are getting more and more ridiculous. Read the rest of that chapter instead of deceiving yourself and then trying to deceive others.

    During the Gospel Age, Jesus commands the whole world to be born again. After His second coming, all the Jews must be born again, and only a believing remnant will be saved.
     
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  5. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    All Jews ? worthy Israelites ? Israelites (The servants of God) at the time of our Lord knew Jesus was the Christ, now Nathaniel was the first one who knew who Jesus Christ truly was because, Jesus said he was and not to mention Jesus was saying Nathaniel was 100% true Israelite.
    Holy Moses said that Jesus would come and that any worthy servant of God would know who he was in fact, so any Jew who does not truly follow Holy Moses is not worthy anyway, because they are not Israel, they do not serve the OT God for a start anyway, so such is worthless as to God.

    For anyone to be saved you have to be water baptised first and then hopefully you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit and that means you are Born Again.

    Their is no Jew or Gentile under the Holy Spirit, so how can the Holy Spirit ID one as Judah or Christianity, all serve as one under Christ Jesus regardless.

    At the second coming all nonsense will be burnt up and nothing left, what that means is that all will be flat on their arse and the folly will be exposed and the light of Jesus Christ will shine forth like a beacon of hope for all, because they will cope such a hellfire and such will scream out for God in huge pain and the works of man will be seen for what it truly is, the madness of man, just like filthy rags. it's Sinful corruption that leads astray like a cancer. the majority will not survive ! so one should not wish for the second coming or you are a fool, it's darkness, not light, it's the work of Satan that comes, it's Hellfire such a one is sadly praying for ? and it's out of line with Christ Jesus, as he wants all to come to him to be saved ? get water baptised and then the Holy Spirit, that's all one ever needs, ever did need and ever will need, not to mention that after the second Coming it's the same thing, you must be Born Again, no one can beat that ! their is no born again plus this or that. oh I am born again plus ? what nonsense is being peddled nowadays is that they are condemning all Christians who ever lived and peddling that it's only after the second coming that people are of any value of being a Christian, well no that's not true, as all who were born again are Saved, no one is better saved than any other regardless of second coming or not.

    The Number one thing in any ones life is that you must be born again of the Holy Spirit, or you are lost.
     
  6. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    How can one come to truly know God and not be born again ?

    No one comes to the Father but by his only begotten Son, so all other faiths are not worthy, but they who are in Jesus Christ, that means that they serve Jesus as he is the saviour, it's all about you Soul, he will feed your Soul and then you will know that he is your Lord and Saviour.
    We do not need works of man, we need Grace and Jesus Christ is Grace it's self.

    No one can beat the first Jesus and the second coming is the first Jesus in fact.
     
  7. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    1) Kingdom of God is here it's within your midst, Kingdom of Heaven is above.

    2) Israel is the servants of God ? so they indeed would have the ability to know Jesus Christ, but Judah being only a people of God would not and that's why Jesus said to his disciples to go to the Israelites (servants of God) and if they do not take heed, to turn from them and not to even take the dust from you sandals from them, why because they are not truly Israelites (The servants of God) for they are corrupted.

    3) Israel never rejects Jesus Christ for he is their King.
     
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Ugh... No.

    1) The kingdom of God and of heaven are One kingdom, which is within you. "Above" is not a place.

    2) Christ came but for the house of Israel. Israel and Judah are One house.

    3) Israel had Christ crucified.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  9. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Would you care to show me in scripture where Israel did not need to believe on the name of Jesus
    and where anyone besides Israel was told to be born again.

    Also would you care to tell me what does John 3:5 means to you
     
  10. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Would you care to show me in scripture where anyone else besides Israel is told to be born again
     
  11. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are asking about things that are distant from the root, and therefore not easily discerned.

    It is not that Israel did not need to believe in Jesus specifically, but (as I said) they needed to believe in the coming of Messiah, which (as I said) they did. It is just that they did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah...which does not mean they did not believe, nor did it mean that God's promises of their salvation was made void. It meant rather that "for their iniquity" they would see no atonement "even unto death." Isaiah 22

    Thus, Israel's atonement/salvation was in their Messiah whom they rejected, of whom He was "the Last." And therefore, "It is finished."

    As for being born again, Jesus came "for the house of Israel", therefore He preached the message of salvation to them, though they would not hear Him. And because they did not hear Him "the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles." Acts 28

    As for John 3:5:

    "Jesus answered, '“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."'​

    Jesus spoke this to Israel because they were under the assumption that they would be saved because they were born (of water) as sons of Abraham, and nothing more. So He told them that they must also be born of the spirit of God. Most then, came under the prophecy of Isaiah and only saw their salvation in "death", and therefore they are called "the dead in Christ." Only some of Israel, those who believed, did not see death (Matthew 16:28).
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  12. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Although it is right, as you say, that the Jews thought they were righteous because they were of Abraham,
    Please explain how it is that you say being born of water is being born as sons of Abraham.
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Being born "of water" simply means being born of women, natural. Thus, "the natural, and afterward the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46
     
  14. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    I have heard this but I am not convinced because it would be redundant .....Jesus said to enter the kingdom one had to be born of water....if one is already born of water naturally why would it be necessary to be born of water naturally again to enter the kingdom?
     
  15. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    He did not say that they had to be born again of water...but rather, since they were already born of water, they also needed to be born again of the spirit of God: First the natural, then the spiritual.
     
  16. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Last thought.....
    But Jesus said except!!!
    Would not everyone born be born of water?
    Saying except means something else must be fulfilled...if not born of water they would be excluded
     
  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. "Except" one is first born of water (born in natural birth), they cannot also be born [again] of the spirit of God.

    So, being born of water is not something they had to do a second time...hence Nicodemus' response to the idea of re-entering one's mother's womb. It is from there that Jesus explained that natural birth needed to be followed by spiritual birth in order for one to enter the kingdom, saying, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

    Meaning, two births, "the natural, and afterward the spiritual."
     
  18. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    Wrong !

    3) The servants of God ? had Christ crucified ? that's totally wrong, Nathaniel was a True Israelite and all, not to mention that all of the disciples were as well and that's a absolute fact ! sorry to say.
    Fact is that Jesus sent his disciples out to look for the Israelites and all, this was so that his disciples would inform them and that a true person of worthiness as such could comprehend the fact that Jesus Christ is he.
    Now if they did not comprehend this they were not worthy of God at all and are only claiming to be a Servant of God (Israel).

    2) they are not one house at all, True Christianity is one house not to mention that his consist of Israel and Judah and the whole world. all are one under Christ Jesus. but it's not so of OT history is it as they split, don't you know.

    1) the Kingdom of God is within you and the Kingdom above is the Holy Spirit that is above all.
    The Kingdom of God is abiding in the Holy Spirit that is above.

    Now read what Jesus said to Nathaniel and what do you understand ? what was it that Jesus said that Nathaniel would see ? so ScottA now the gravity at hand should click. I hope and pray for you to be able to comprehend it.
     
  19. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish !

    Who was it that was water baptised ? a dude was reading and had to be taken down to the river, that's how was that done ? and not to mention John the Baptist what was he doing to all of them, not to mention that Jesus was as well by him, not to mention John was blown away that he was informed to do it and where did Jesus go after that ?

    Fact is that no one can perform a Spiritual Baptism but that of the Holy Spirit that comes to such a one.
    One preforms a water baptism for a reason you know.
     
  20. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    What is it that you are arguing, that the chief priests who sat in Moses' seat, the leaders over [all] Israel did not come out for Jesus as if He were a criminal and insist that He be crucified?

    Or, are you arguing that a house divided is not still one house, and that Jesus came for the lost sheep of two different houses of Israel?

    Or, that there is more than one kingdom?

    You are babbling gibberish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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