JOHN 7:1 JESUS HAD BROTHERS

[Doug]

John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.

7:4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.

7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.

Here is another clear case of scripture showing that Jesus had brothers. The brethren could not be disciples because they are differentiated in the text in John 7:3. In John 7:5 brethren could not mean a disciple because they did not believe in him.

 

[theefaith]

John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.

7:4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.

7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.

Here is another clear case of scripture showing that Jesus had brothers. The brethren could not be disciples because they are differentiated in the text in John 7:3. In John 7:5 brethren could not mean a disciple because they did not believe in him.

they could be apostles?
They could be brothers, children of Joseph from a prior marriage
Or cousins any close relative was call we bother like Abraham and lot even though lot was his nephew
But one thing is certain they are NOT the children of blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God and mother of our salvation

 

[amadeus]

But one thing is certain they are NOT the children of blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God and mother of our salvation

Why?

 

[Gary Urban]

John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.

7:4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.

7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.

Here is another clear case of scripture showing that Jesus had brothers. The brethren could not be disciples because they are differentiated in the text in John 7:3. In John 7:5 brethren could not mean a disciple because they did not believe in him.

I would agree. In John 6 the unbelieving (faithless) disciples where offened (hard saying ) when Jesus said his flesh profits for zero . They confused the parable drink blood as it refers to mankind . They looked to the literal flesh and blood understanding and the not one hidden in the parables lshown eaving out the unseen father that powerfuly working in the Son of man,jesu who had no power of his own .

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[theefaith]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness!



Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.



“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[theefaith]

St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

 

[theefaith]

Biblical Mary!

From Genesis to revelation!

First promise of salvation!

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Total war: enmity

None of satans works are found in Mary, she belongs entirely to God!
Even consecration herself to God at a very young age.

Isa 7:14

1 kings 2: 17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife.

18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.

19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.

2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands





Mary is the great sign of the divinity of Christ!

Isa 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Lk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 2:35
a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Matt 27:54
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Jn 2:3
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

Jn 2:11
This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Rev 12:1
And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 1:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.





Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace


Mary is our spiritual mother


Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

 

[Gary Urban]

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

The glory of God who is not a man is not visible to the eye adding a hallows shaped as rings does not prove the presence of patron saints as disembodied workers with a familar spirit . Belivers do all things to His glory just as did our dear blessed sister in the Lord, Mary..

1 Corinthians 10:31 [Full Chapter] Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

No glory of the flesh !

Perhaps we can follow the glory thing to the end of the matter rather than picking rotten cherries .

How many of the legion of patron saints as workers with familiar spirts that you call apostolic sucecesion of fathers will be enough to satisfy the desire of the living seeking after the dead?

I have searched and there are over 3500 and rising with the ability to purchace a imgane of the dead .Some share the work of other gods in the likeness of men

How many wil be enough to satify the desire of seeking the dead for the living. (4000?)

Christian pray one manner. (Mathew 6) Our Holy unsen Father in heaven hallowed or venerated His name not a legion of father that no longer have any part in anything under the sun. He needs no help from the peanut gallery . Or does he?

 

[Gary Urban]

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

That is simply blasphemy against the unsen Holy Spirit . . . attributing the unseen things of God (grace) to the corrupted powerless dying flesh of mankind.

Ok then does the rest of humanity receive a unknown portion of the grace of God and they must continue to suffer even after they take their last breath of oxygen for another unknown remnant of time? The doctrine of wondering?

What happened to Limbo doctrine of the Catholic sect did it come to the end of faith so that men would not have to wonder where the idea came from in the first place. Is Limbo lower now? How low can it go?

 

[theefaith]

The glory of God who is not a man is not visible to the eye adding a hallows shaped as rings does not prove the presence of patron saints as disembodied workers with a familar spirit . Belivers do all things to His glory just as did our dear blessed sister in the Lord, Mary..

1 Corinthians 10:31 [Full Chapter] Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

No glory of the flesh !

Perhaps we can follow the glory thing to the end of the matter rather than picking rotten cherries .

How many of the legion of patron saints as workers with familiar spirts that you call apostolic sucecesion of fathers will be enough to satisfy the desire of the living seeking after the dead?

I have searched and there are over 3500 and rising with the ability to purchace a imgane of the dead .Some share the work of other gods in the likeness of men

How many wil be enough to satify the desire of seeking the dead for the living. (4000?)

Christian pray one manner. (Mathew 6) Our Holy unsen Father in heaven hallowed or venerated His name not a legion of father that no longer have any part in anything under the sun. He needs no help from the peanut gallery . Or does he?

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Christ and His church are one acts 9;4

 

[theefaith]

That is simply blasphemy against the unsen Holy Spirit . . . attributing the unseen things of God (grace) to the corrupted powerless dying flesh of mankind.

Ok then does the rest of humanity receive a unknown portion of the grace of God and they must continue to suffer even after they take their last breath of oxygen for another unknown remnant of time? The doctrine of wondering?

What happened to Limbo doctrine of the Catholic sect did it come to the end of faith so that men would not have to wonder where the idea came from in the first place. Is Limbo lower now? How low can it go?

limbo is the place of infants who die without baptism they are committed to the mercy of God!

the rest I’m not sure what your refering to

 

[Gary Urban]

limbo is the place of infants who die without baptism they are committed to the mercy of God!

the rest I’m not sure what your refering to

Then are you saying you are not sure that our dear sister in the lord, Mary alone received the fullnes of Grace and the rest of humanity a unknown remnant? What would be the purpose of puragtory, another un known suffering ? Where is the end of that faith and does it as a oral tradition of men makes the faith of Christ without effect?

 

[theefaith]

Then are you saying you are not sure that our dear sister in the lord, Mary alone received the fullnes of Grace and the rest of humanity a unknown remenant? What would be the pirpose of puragtory a nother un known ? Where is the end of that faith and does it as a oral tradition of men makes the faith of christ without effect?

tradition is part of divine revelation

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

even scripture can be part of tradition

1. Ephesians 1:9
   Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
   
   
   
2. Ephesians 3:3
   How that by revelation he made knownunto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
   
   2 Thessalonians 3:6
   Now we command you, brethren, in thename of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after thetradition which he received of us.

Tradition is handed down or the teaching authority of the apostles (see below)

Mary is our mother not sister

purgatory has to do with divine justice not sin or salvation

The immaculate conception is about Mary being conceived not Jesus

please find out something about these subjects before you comment on them

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

 

[Gary Urban]

tradition is part of divine revelation

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

even scripture can be part of tradition

1. Ephesians 1:9
   Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
   
   
   
2. Ephesians 3:3
   How that by revelation he made knownunto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
   
   2 Thessalonians 3:6
   Now we command you, brethren, in thename of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after thetradition which he received of us.

Tradition is handed down or the teaching authority of the apostles (see below)

Mary is our mother not sister

purgatory has to do with divine justice not sin or salvation

The immaculate conception is about Mary being conceived not Jesus

please find out something about these subjects before you comment on them

I am fully aware I have been sharing my understanding on a Catholic Protestant board for nearly 15 years .I am trying to understand why they oppose all things written in the law and the prophets as it is writtem (sola scripture). It as oral traditions of men opposing sola scriptura. . No man can serve two teaching masters as one unseen Father.

I heard it through the grape vines as oral traditions of kings and fathers from the first moment Moses foot toughed camp showing them breaking the written commandments written by the finger of God(not etched of man)Not through I heard it through the grape vine oral tradition of men .

oral traditions of men have never been lifted up to the written tradition of God Two different kinds of authority as two different witnesses one seen the other by faith . The witness of God the greater he knows all things and cannot lie.

The foundation of the matter must be looked into or then it becomes plain to others why some would puff up the apostles above that which it written. . pitting one persons private in interpretation against another as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood without the aid of the Spirit of Christ who abides in all who have been born again of God. .THis is shown many times using our brother in the Lord , Peter the serial denier to teach us not to do follow the law of the fathers . The last time in the book of John Peter again started a oral traditions of men He went off to town and declared John would not really die the hope of all that seek after workers with familiar spirits they must call patron saint A doctrine unheard of in the Bible one of a pagan foundation. After revealing the lie Jesus infallibly declared if every time he had to expose the lies of the oral traditions of men that try and add power to sola scriptura .We would need a bigger world to hold the volumes of I heard it through the grape vine sacred oral traditions of men .Not of God who is not a man as us.

 

[theefaith]

I am fully aware I have been sharing my understanding on a Catholic Protestant board for nearly 15 years .I am trying to understand why they oppose all things written in the law and the prophets as it is writtem (sola scripture). It as oral traditions of men opposing sola scriptura. . No man can serve two teaching masters as one unseen Father.

I heard it through the grape vines as oral traditions of kings and fathers from the first moment Moses foot toughed camp showing them breaking the written commandments written by the finger of God(not etched of man)Not through I heard it through the grape vine oral tradition of men .

oral traditions of men have never been lifted up to the written tradition of God Two different kinds of authority as two different witnesses one seen the other by faith . The witness of God the greater he knows all things and cannot lie.

The foundation of the matter must be looked into or then it becomes plain to others why some would puff up the apostles above that which it written. . pitting one persons private in interpretation against another as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood without the aid of the Spirit of Christ who abides in all who have been born again of God. .THis is shown many times using our brother in the Lord , Peter the serial denier to teach us not to do follow the law of the fathers . The last time in the book of John Peter again started a oral traditions of men He went off to town and declared John would not really die the hope of all that seek after workers with familiar spirits they must call patron saint A doctrine unheard of in the Bible one of a pagan foundation. After revealing the lie Jesus infallibly declared if every time he had to expose the lies of the oral traditions of men that try and add power to sola scriptura .We would need a bigger world to hold the volumes of I heard it through the grape vine sacred oral traditions of men .Not of God who is not a man as us.

please explain the successors of Moses matt 23 Jesus Christ says “they must be obeyed”!

 

[Gary Urban]

please explain the successors of Moses matt 23 Jesus Christ says “they must be obeyed”!

Nothing magical about inanimate lifeless chairs . It reflects as a metphor the position of our unseen Holy father the father of many nations called Abraham giving meaning to the word. The bousm of Abraham is the invisble presence of God.

Not acording to his flesh as seeds many But the unseen born again seed Christ that works in all believers sent by God with the gospel

There are no successors of God (not seen) neither of the apostle Moses or the apostle Abel. . the first recorded martyr. .

Moses is used in parables to signify our unseen Holy Father and Aaron used to represent the Son of man Jesus as the high priest of the New Testament order the reformed order. Together establising the govenment of peace

Again Christ isthe Spirit that indwells every believer. . we do have that treasure of his power in these earthen bodies but would never say the power is of us (Blasphemy) .2 Corinthians 4:7


Exodus 4:1 0 -16And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Moses never becomes God and nirther does Arron become jesus the Son of man , It was a upcoming work of the two. Hiding the unseen gosple understanding in those parables in order to continue to teach us how to walk or understand God not seen, by faith to faith the unsen eternal gospel

 

[theefaith]

Nothing magical about inanimate lifeless chairs . It reflects as a metphor the position of our unseen Holy father the father of many nations called Abraham giving meaning to the word. The bousm of Abraham is the invisble presence of God.

Not acording to his flesh as seeds many But the unseen born again seed Christ that works in all believers sent by God with the gospel

There are no successors of God (not seen) neither of the apostle Moses or the apostle Abel. . the first recorded martyr. .

Moses is used in parables to signify our unseen Holy Father and Aaron used to represent the Son of man Jesus as the high priest of the New Testament order the reformed order. Together establising the govenment of peace

Again Christ isthe Spirit that indwells every believer. . we do have that treasure of his power in these earthen bodies but would never say the power is of us (Blasphemy) .2 Corinthians 4:7


Exodus 4:1 0 -16And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Moses never becomes God and nirther does Arron become jesus the Son of man , It was a upcoming work of the two. Hiding the unseen gosple understanding in those parables in order to continue to teach us how to walk or understand God not seen, by faith to faith the unsen eternal gospel

is the word of God limited to scripture alone?

 

[Gary Urban]

is the word of God limited to scripture alone?

I would think it stands to reason who else could it as it is written be limited to? The god of this world . two choices?

Yes scripture the living word of God defines scripture (the unseen) faith of Gods labor of Love, to the same faith. Reckoned as faith to faith.or face to face. Eternal God does not have form so face to face is revealed knowledge to the same witnes of God "the law of faith" .

The foundation of the doctrine where God hewn out the stone and wrote on both sides by his finger .This was even before he moved Moses the second time having destroyed the first because mankind was seeking after the god of this world through the oral treaditions that did make his written traditon without effect .The foundation of as it is written must be studied.

Sola scriptura is a closed book as of the last chapter Revelation. It gives us an infallible historical record as well as the gospel hid as spiritual unseen matters of Christ’s faith that works in those born again from above.

In the end of the matter no man can serve two teaching masters .That of God not seen as it is etched in stone and man seen according to the philosophies of man. Philosophies as private interpretations or oral traditions are not laws not subject to change. In that way we must remember there are two witnesses that of God not seen as it is written and mankind seen as private interpretation .Never do the two become one Devine origin .

The word it as it is written represents the one faith of God alone. Three times the opposing spirit of lies tried to make it as that which by the eyes see alone. In a vision he brought to the fleshly mind of Jesus all the kingdoms of the world as the god of this world and all the glory associated with false pride.

Three times with three denoting the end of a matter the father that worked in the Son of man and gave Jesus the chief apostles words as it is written. Etched by the finger of God alone

Mathew 4: 3-11 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

 

[theefaith]

Nothing magical about inanimate lifeless chairs . It reflects as a metphor the position of our unseen Holy father the father of many nations called Abraham giving meaning to the word. The bousm of Abraham is the invisble presence of God.

Not acording to his flesh as seeds many But the unseen born again seed Christ that works in all believers sent by God with the gospel

There are no successors of God (not seen) neither of the apostle Moses or the apostle Abel. . the first recorded martyr. .

Moses is used in parables to signify our unseen Holy Father and Aaron used to represent the Son of man Jesus as the high priest of the New Testament order the reformed order. Together establising the govenment of peace

Again Christ isthe Spirit that indwells every believer. . we do have that treasure of his power in these earthen bodies but would never say the power is of us (Blasphemy) .2 Corinthians 4:7


Exodus 4:1 0 -16And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Moses never becomes God and nirther does Arron become jesus the Son of man , It was a upcoming work of the two. Hiding the unseen gosple understanding in those parables in order to continue to teach us how to walk or understand God not seen, by faith to faith the unsen eternal gospel

the chair is a sign of authority
They have jurisdictional authority and Christ said they must be obeyed

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.