John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

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ByGraceThroughFaith

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“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins…Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things” (verses 24, 28. KJV)

In these two verses, Jesus says, that if we do not believe that He is “I AM”, that we will die in our sins.

Firstly, Bible Versions like the KJV, are quite wrong when they translate the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, by “I am he”. The word “he” is in italics showing that it is not in the Greek. So, why did they insert this?

Jesus uses “εγω ειμι” three times in this chapter of John’s Gospel. Twice in the above verses, and once in verse 58.

What exactly does Jesus mean, especially in verse 24, where He says, that people who did not believe that He is “εγω ειμι”, would die in their sins? This is the same as saying that these will not be saved, and end up in eternal punishment. Clearly Jesus says what He does, as a warning.

In Matthew 14, when Jesus came to His Disciples “walking on the sea” (26), and the Disciples became “troubled” by what they were seeing. Jesus reassures them by saying, “ But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid” (27). The words in English, “it is I”, are in the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, I AM!. In John chapter 18, when they came to arrest Jesus, He said to them “εγω ειμι” (5), then in verse 6 we read this response from those who heard this, “As soon then as he had said unto them, εγω ειμι, they went backward, and fell to the ground”

But, what does Jesus mean in John 8:24, by the words: “if you believe not that “εγω ειμι””?

There can be no doubt, that Jesus here, as He does in verse 58, claim for Himself Absolute Deity, that is, YHWH. For He has in mind the Words Spoken to Moses in Exodus chapter 3, where we read, “’Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh”, which is best translated from the Hebrew grammar:

“and God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM…I AM hath sent me unto you”

(Dr A Benisch; Jewish School and Family Bible, Vol. II)

“And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’… I AM hath sent me unto you.’.’”

(The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, A New Translation. The Jewish Publication Society of America. 5677-1917)

“And God said unto Moses: ‘I am that I am’… I am hath sent me unto you.’

(Hebrew-English Tanakh, The Jewish Bible, Varda Books. Jewish Publication)

The words in the Greek Version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX), is important:

Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν”, literally, “I am the Existing One”

The Jews in Jesus’ time would have clearly understood what He was saying. In fact, in verse 59 we read, “they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him”. Stoning was because they supposed that Jesus was here blaspheming, by ascribing to Himself, the very Name of YHWH.

In the account of the Burning Bush in Exodus chapter 3, we read in verse 2, “And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush”. In verse 4 it says, “So when YHWH saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!””. Then, in verse 6 we read, “Moreover He said, “I am (Ἐγώ εἰμι. LXX) the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God”. Then in verse 7, “And YHWH said…”. And, 11, “But Moses said to God”. Then we have the famous Words Spoken to Moses in verse 14, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you”. And verse 15, Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations”. In verse 12 we read God telling Moses, “and He said, certainly I will be with you”. The words “I will be”, are the same “’Ehyeh”, used in verse 14, “I AM”.

It is very interesting that all of the above in Exodus 3, is not about God the Father as YHWH, but, “מַלְאַךְ יהוה” that is “The Angel of YHWH”, or, “Messenger of YHWH”, Who is not only a distinct Person from YHWH, as One sent by YHWH, but Himself also YHWH, and all of the Divine Names in the passage of Exodus 3. For those who honestly want to know what the Bible actually Teaches, and not rely on their own ideas of what the Bible should say. It is very clear, that there is more than One Person, Who is called YHWH, and distinct from each other. The One is the Sender, and the One is Sent, showing that they cannot be One and the same Person.

It is very clear, that what Jesus Christ does say in John 8:24, can only mean that He is claiming for Himself, to be YHWH. The evidence of Scripture is clear to this fact, but there will still be those, who oppose the Deity of Jesus Christ, who will still fight against to very Word of God, to their own destruction!

Jesus Christ cannot be YHWH, as we see that the Bible says that He IS, and be anything less than God the Father. The very Name YHWH means, Uncreated, Unchanging, Eternal. Which is true for God The Father, God the Son, and God The Holy Spirit. The Eternal, Unchanging, Triune God!
 

Michiah-Imla

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It is very clear, that what Jesus Christ does say in John 8:24, can only mean that He is claiming for Himself, to be YHWH. The evidence of Scripture is clear to this fact, but there will still be those, who oppose the Deity of Jesus Christ, who will still fight against to very Word of God, to their own destruction!

That’s quite a statement considering the scripture you cite does not say what you say it says. Is it worth to pick a fight with the brethren over this matter? Where in scripture does it tell you to cause division over wether or not Jesus is God?

And when applying your logic as to why “he” should be left out of John 8:24 to all scriptures, who else claims to be “I am” in scripture?

Did the man who was blind from his birth claim to be “I am” in John 9?:

John 9:8-9
[8] The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? [9] Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

After all, “he” is in italics and does not belong in the scriptures according to your logic.

And in John 18 Jesus said “I am” when asked if here were JESUS!

John 18:4-5
Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? [5] They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.

See, again “he” is added to the text.

Your are forcing the scriptures to say what they are not saying.

If you just sober up a little and read the scriptures surrounding John 8:24 you will see what Jesus was referring to when he said “I am”:

John 8:12,24-25
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. ...[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [25] Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

And what did Jesus say in the beginning of the book of John?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
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Tong2020

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That’s quite a statement considering the scripture you cite does not say what you say it says. Is it worth to pick a fight with the brethren over this matter? Where in scripture does it tell you to cause division over wether or not Jesus is God?

And when applying your logic as to why “he” should be left out of John 8:24 to all scriptures, who else claims to be “I am” in scripture?

Did the man who was blind from his birth claim to be “I am” in John 9?:

John 9:8-9
[8] The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? [9] Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

After all, “he” is in italics and does not belong in the scriptures according to your logic.

And in John 18 Jesus said “I am” when asked if here were JESUS!

John 18:4-5
Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? [5] They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.

See, again “he” is added to the text.

Your are forcing the scriptures to say what they are not saying.

If you just sober up a little and read the scriptures surrounding John 8:24 you will see what Jesus was referring to when he said “I am”:

John 8:12,24-25
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. ...[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [25] Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

And what did Jesus say in the beginning of the book of John?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
YHWH is the King of Israel.

Is not Jesus Christ, the King of Israel?

Tong
R2799
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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That’s quite a statement considering the scripture you cite does not say what you say it says. Is it worth to pick a fight with the brethren over this matter? Where in scripture does it tell you to cause division over wether or not Jesus is God?

And when applying your logic as to why “he” should be left out of John 8:24 to all scriptures, who else claims to be “I am” in scripture?

Did the man who was blind from his birth claim to be “I am” in John 9?:

John 9:8-9
[8] The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? [9] Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

After all, “he” is in italics and does not belong in the scriptures according to your logic.

And in John 18 Jesus said “I am” when asked if here were JESUS!

John 18:4-5
Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? [5] They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he.

See, again “he” is added to the text.

Your are forcing the scriptures to say what they are not saying.

If you just sober up a little and read the scriptures surrounding John 8:24 you will see what Jesus was referring to when he said “I am”:

John 8:12,24-25
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. ...[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [25] Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

And what did Jesus say in the beginning of the book of John?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Clearly you don't grasp what I have written in the OP
 

Michiah-Imla

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You reject it because you can't accept that Jesus Christ IS the Great I AM.

I don’t reject it all.

What I do reject is your teaching on John 8:24 making salvation dependent on believing Jesus is God to be saved.

There is no scripture whatsoever that tell believers to divide over this issue, NONE.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Here is a very simple question. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is YHWH. That the Holy Spirit is YHWH. That the Father is YHWH?

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And I am saved by this belief alone.

And you cannot prove otherwise out of the scriptures.
 

Michiah-Imla

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John 1.1 for starters says that you are wrong

John 1:1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This scripture says nothing to prove me wrong.

This scripture says I am right:

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is none other name than Jesus Christ by which we are saved.

For:

Romans 10:13
...whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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John 1:1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This scripture says nothing to prove me wrong.

This scripture says I am right:

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is none other name than Jesus Christ by which we are saved.

For:

Romans 10:13
...whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 1.1 says that there are 2 Persons who are God. There is no other way to understand this verse in the Greek or English
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The apostle John wrote his life account of Jesus Christ in the Greek language, not in Hebrew; and in the Greek text the controversial expression is "Egoeimi." Just by itself, without any introductory material ahead of it, Egoeimi means “I am.” Now this expression Egoeimi occurs also at John 8:24, 28; and in those verses the Authorized or king James Version and the Douay Version and others render the expression into English as “I am he,” the pronoun he being put in italics to indicate that the pronoun he is added or inserted. But here, in John 8:58, those versions do not render this same expression as “I am he,” but only as “I am.” They want to give us the idea that Jesus was not simply referring to his existence but also giving himself a title that belongs to YHWH God, in imitation of Exodus 3:14.

When writing John 8:58, the apostle John was not quoting from the Greek Septuagint Version, a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures made by Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, Egypt, before the birth of Christ. Anyone who reads Greek if you compare John 8:58 in Greek and Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint, he/she will find that the Septuagint reading of Exodus 3:14 does not use the expression Egoeimi by itself for God’s name, when God says to Moses: “I AM hath sent me unto you.” The Greek Septuagint uses the expression ho On, which means “The Being,” or, “The One who is.” This fact is clearly presented to us in Bagster’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, at Exodus 3:14, which reads: “And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING [ho On]; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING [ho On] has sent me to you.” According to Charles Thomson’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, Exodus 3:14 reads: “God spoke to Moses saying, I am The I Am [ho On]. Moreover he said, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, The I Am ho On hath sent me to you.” Thus this comparison of the two Greek texts, that of the Septuagint and that of John 8:58, removes all basis for trinitarians to argue that Jesus, in John 8:58, was trying to fit Exodus 3:14 to himself, as if he was YHWH God. The Greek expression Egoeimi isn't in Exodus 3:14 by itself. So Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint doesn't say the "I Am" sent me, It says, "I Am The Being" sent me.[Egoeimi ho On]
So at John 8:58 the Greek expression "Egoeimi" (I Am) is there, not "Egoeimi ho On," which is the Greek expression used at Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint Version.
 

Carl Emerson

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John 17:11

Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are.

Same name and in perfect unity.
 
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