John Calvin and Calvinism.

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Lifelong_sinner

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Given the amount of horrendous theology i see on this forum, and since the admins seem to have taken a hands off approach to running this place, i’ve taken it upon myself to create this thread for all topics concerning not only the doctrine of Calvinism, but anything John Calvin related.

All questions concerning anything about john calvin please post here.
 

GaryAnderson

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We need a chart of all Christian denominations. I’ve looked hard in Google but I can’t find it.
For example :

1. Believes in Trinity = Check
2. Believes in Eucharist = Check
3. Honors The Virgin Mary = Check

Etc etc.

Then we can ask questions such as :

1. Why don’t you believe in the Trinity
2. Why don’t you believe in Eucharist ?
3. Why don’t you honor Virgin Mary?

Etc.
 

Enoch111

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That puzzles me, because after extensively reading his commentaries I must have missed the contradictions. I haven't seen anywhere he has contradicted the Bible.
Calvin has contradicted himself as well as the Bible on several occasions. I will need to present you with some doozies.
 

Ronald Nolette

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We need a chart of all Christian denominations. I’ve looked hard in Google but I can’t find it.
For example :

1. Believes in Trinity = Check
2. Believes in Eucharist = Check
3. Honors The Virgin Mary = Check

Etc etc.

Then we can ask questions such as :

1. Why don’t you believe in the Trinity
2. Why don’t you believe in Eucharist ?
3. Why don’t you honor Virgin Mary?

Etc.

One and two are biblical, three is the byproduct of RCC musings. churches honor Mary but we accept what the bible teaches that she had sex after Jesus was born. The language cannot be plainer. She also gave Jesus at least 6 half-brothers and sisters.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Why did Calvin contradict himself so often?

Well only having good knowledge of TULIP which is very biblically based, I can't speak to any of his contradictions.

1. But Calvin was a man and not God, so that could be one good reason.

2. Also once saved, He was not infused with perfect biblical knowledge from the onset. so all of us, if all our beliefs were written down would be guilty of contradicting ourselves we we grew in the knowledge of the Word.

3. Also We christians tend to make idols of men and so when a man shows himself to be a man that is considered a key figure, his humanity os counted against him far far worse than the little fish.
 

GaryAnderson

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One and two are biblical, three is the byproduct of RCC musings. churches honor Mary but we accept what the bible teaches that she had sex after Jesus was born. The language cannot be plainer. She also gave Jesus at least 6 half-brothers and sisters.

Hey Ronald.
So, @Lifelong_sinner has invited us here to ask about Calvinism. But I don’t know anything about Calvinism so I don’t know what to ask.
If we had a chart though, of what Calvinists believe, then I can ask some questions.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Hey Ronald.
So, @Lifelong_sinner has invited us here to ask about Calvinism. But I don’t know anything about Calvinism so I don’t know what to ask.
If we had a chart though, of what Calvinists believe, then I can ask some questions.

That would be hard as there are many flavors of "calvinistic" belief out there.

But the biggest are known by the acronym TULIP which briefly stated is this:

T= total depravity. When Adam fell He died spiritually and all his descendants are born spiritually dead as Paul said in Ephesians.

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all

U= unconditional election. Man has to do nothing to clean himself up to be forgiven by God.

L= limited Atonement= Jesus died for the sins of the world, but only the elect or saved receive the benefit of this atonement.

I= irresistaqble grace, this is one of the hotly contested one. God makes a general call to all, but only the elect are drawn. See JOhn:

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

P= perseverance of the saints. this is popularly known as eternal security or once saved always saved.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

that is it in a nutshell . There are many others, but these appear to be the big ones.

These were written in response to Jacob Arminius 5 points, presented at the council of Dort (if memory serves correct)
 
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Enoch111

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Calvin has contradicted himself as well as the Bible on several occasions. I will need to present you with some doozies.
Here is one example of Calvin contradicting himself, and contradicting Scripture at the same time.

Calvin’s commentary on John 3:16 (Bible Hub): SCRIPTURAL

16. For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish...

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTRADICTED IN CALVIN'S INSTITUTES: UNSCRIPTURAL
“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.” Institutes III. 21.7.


So either John Calvin was a very dishonest theologian, or he assumed nobody would catch him in his contradictions. And this is just one example. And Calvinists try to dodge all around this to claim that Calvin did not believe in Unlimited Atonement.
 
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GaryAnderson

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Thank you so much for the summary @Ronald Nolette .
I can see that each of those points can ignite an endless debate including on what exactly they mean by words like “Total” or “Unconditional” or “ irresistible” or “limited”.
Sigh.
I’ll sit back and watch now and thank you again for the summary.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Here is one example of Calvin contradicting himself, and contradicting Scripture at the same time.

Calvin’s commentary on John 3:16 (Bible Hub): SCRIPTURAL

16. For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish...

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTRADICTED IN CALVIN'S INSTITUTES: UNSCRIPTURAL
“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. We maintain that this counsel, as regards the elect, is founded on his free mercy, without any respect to human worth, while those whom he dooms to destruction are excluded from access to life by a just and blameless, but at the same time incomprehensible judgment.” Institutes III. 21.7.


So either John Calvin was a very dishonest theologian, or he assumed nobody would catch him in his contradictions. And this is just one example. And Calvinists try to dodge all around this to claim that Calvin did not believe in Unlimited Atonement.

calvin struggled with the doctrine of election.
“Calvin taught that God’s will is to be our resting place. He cautions those trying to go beyond the limit of their understanding. When men hear of election, they immediately want to ask, “Why would God choose some, and not others?” To this Calvin replied: “When they inquire into predestination, let then remember that they are penetrating into the recesses of the divine wisdom, where he who rushes forward securely and confidently, instead of satisfying his curiosity will enter in (an) inextricable labyrinth.”God’s thoughts are higher than man’s, and men will be trapped in a mental maze if they try to understand things that are beyond their human comprehension.”

“Calvin then addresses the mistaken notion that election removes human responsibility. Many today associate John Calvin with an aberration of his teaching called Hyper-Calvinism, which is a doctrine that emphasizes divine sovereignty to the exclusion of human responsibility. Among other things, Hyper-Calvinism would deny 1) that gospel invitations are to be delivered to all people without exception; 2) that men can be urged to come to Christ; and 3) that God has a universal love. To Calvin these teachings were monstrous distortions of truth.”

“What was Calvin’s answer? He reminds his readers what the predestinated are predestined to do! He points out what the Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 1:4, where he reminds us that the end for which we are elected is “that we should be holy, and without blame before him.” “If the end of election is holiness of life, it ought to arouse and stimulate us strenuously to aspire to it, instead of serving as a pretext for sloth.”[11] He develops how predestination should lead us to fear God all the more, and consequently should both comfort us and spur us on even in the worst of times to greater holiness.”

the doctrine of election is no doubt a heavy doctrine that can invoke anger, as i have seen on this forum. People being people, want to have a part in their salvation. Control, people want to think they have at least one hand on the wheel. But submission is where it can begin. To submit requires humility, humbleness. God resists a proud heart.
 

GaryAnderson

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So, I was doing a little reading here : TULIP: 5-Point Calvinism Explained and I have to say that I’m a bit shocked … to say the least.
Basically Calvinism says that there are a few chosen ones and the rest are damned to hell.
This is the most depressing idea I’ve read next to materialistic atheists.
This view which closely aligns with atheism in mindset, says that there’s no difference between Adolph Hitler and Mother Teresa.
This view lets me get away with murder and to do whatever I want because in the end …. it doesn’t really matter because some are chosen and most are not.
Wow. Even reading the Horoscope is more hopeful.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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So, I was doing a little reading here : TULIP: 5-Point Calvinism Explained and I have to say that I’m a bit shocked … to say the least.
Basically Calvinism says that there are a few chosen ones and the rest are damned to hell.
This is the most depressing idea I’ve read next to materialistic atheists.
This view which closely aligns with atheism in mindset, says that there’s no difference between Adolph Hitler and Mother Teresa.
This view lets me get away with murder and to do whatever I want because in the end …. it doesn’t really matter because some are chosen and most are not.
Wow. Even reading the Horoscope is more hopeful.

congrats! You are now learning the real truth about salvation. And yes, in the grand scheme of things, mother teresa was a sinner just the same as hitler.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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Why don't you honestly admit that he contradicted himself and also Scripture? And why don't you accept that his interpretation of John 3:16 is correct, which means that Calvinism is false.

calvinism is just a word we use to define Biblical salvation. Calvin didnt create any new doctrine. He merely took what the 27 books of the NT said and condensed it to 5 points.
 

GaryAnderson

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congrats! You are now learning the real truth about salvation. And yes, in the grand scheme of things, mother teresa was a sinner just the same as hitler.

Salvation? But where is salvation here my friend? This is as bad as the atheists arguing that the universe came from nothing or that we or life, is a random mutation that happened by chance.

This says that we have no free will. This says that God has already decided who’s gonna be saved. Also I don’t think I explained my comment regarding Mother Teresa and Hitler correctly.
This view says that Mother Teresa could go to hell because she’s not part of the chosen despite her being an Angel on earth. But Hitler could be part of the chosen and saved, despite killing millions of people.
I mean how do you defend this stuff?

This means that I could turn into a cannibal, abort babies, worship Satan and in the end I’m either saved or not saved. So my actions don’t matter.

Murder is simply unpopular not immoral. So if I murder and get away with it that’s great. Or I’m gonna move to a place where murder is legal because it makes me happy.
This is the argument of atheists who don’t have objective morality from God. Things like murder are basically unpopular and everything including transgender is fair game.

Maybe we need to be like Aztecs who sacrificed humans and ate their hearts.
I mean there’s no end to the evil we could do …. And be happy about it.

What about All the sick people? Eliminate them all! They’re just a bad config. Who cares?


Why don’t you look into the original message of Jesus my friend instead of listening to this guy from France?
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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Salvation? But where is salvation here my friend? This is as bad as the atheists arguing that the universe came from nothing or that we or life, is a random mutation that happened by chance.

This says that we have no free will. This says that God has already decided who’s gonna be saved. Also I don’t think I explained my comment regarding Mother Teresa and Hitler correctly.
This view says that Mother Teresa could go to hell because she’s not part of the chosen despite her being an Angel on earth. But Hitler could be part of the chosen and saved, despite killing millions of people.
I mean how do you defend this stuff?

This means that I could turn into a cannibal, abort babies, worship Satan and in the end I’m either saved or not saved. So my actions don’t matter.

Murder is simply unpopular not immoral. So if I murder and get away with it that’s great. Or I’m gonna move to a place where murder is legal because it makes me happy.
This is the argument of atheists who don’t have objective morality from God. Things like murder are basically unpopular and everything including transgender is fair game.

Maybe we need to be like Aztecs who sacrificed humans and ate their hearts.
I mean there’s no end to the evil we could do …. And be happy about it.

What about All the sick people? Eliminate them all! They’re just a bad config. Who cares?


Why don’t you look into the original message of Jesus my friend instead of listening to this guy from France?

what calvin said, is what Jesus said. You have no free will to get saved. The Bible says this.
Ephesians 1:4-6
John 6:44

As for mother teresa, understand that Jesus said NO ONE is good except God. Mother teresa was a sinner the same as me and you. We ALL deserve hell. Stop thinking you are a good person.
As far as works, they dont save, but they are a sign that you have been saved. Hitler is in hell, no need to worry about that. If you are of the elect, your works will show that you are saved. if you have secret thoughts of murder, i would question your salvation to begin with. No one that is saved would ever have those kinds of thoughts to begin with due to regeneration.