Jonah & Christ

[Webers_Home]

.
If we're not careful, the time element can become a red herring while the
real issue-- the issue that matters most --is Jonah's resurrection.

● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth.

That should be accompanied by this next passage so there's no mistaking
what Jesus was talking about.

● John 2:18-22 . .Then the Jews demanded of him: What miraculous sign
can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?

. . . Jesus answered them: Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in
three days. The Jews replied: It has taken forty-six years to build this
temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?

. . . But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from
the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the
Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Jonah 1:17 . . The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah
was inside the fish three days and three nights.

FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

A: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

A: No; and in point of fact; unless Jonah was deceased at some point, then
his adventure tells us little of any real significance.

FAQ: So you think Jonah died in the fish?

A: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed
by the big fish; which fits perfectly with the fact that Jesus was dead before
his body was entombed; viz: neither man was buried alive.

Jonah's prayer from within the fish speaks of a prayer that he prayed while
drowning, and also about a prayer that he prayed while incarcerated in
sheol; a total of three prayers; each one prayed from three separate
locations and under three different circumstances: in the sea, in sheol, and
in the fish.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
At some point in his nautical adventure Jonah went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he sited at the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could
possibly be at the roots of the mountains while in the belly of a fish at the
same time was for the man and his body to part company and go their
separate ways.

And then there's Jesus . . .

● Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a
huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the
Earth. It wasn't even in the Earth's soil. His corpse was laid to rest on the
surface of the Earth in a rock-hewn tomb.

So the only way that Jesus could possibly be in a tomb on the surface of the
Earth while in the heart of the Earth at the same time; was for the man and
his body to part company and go their separate ways.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:

● Jonah 2:6 . . You brought my life up from the pit, O Lord my God.

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction.

The very same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10 --which Acts 2:25-31
verifies is speaking of putrefaction; viz: Jonah 2:6 tells of the prophet's flesh
just as Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31 tell of Christ's flesh. In other words:
Jonah 2:6 tells of Jonah's resurrection; which is precisely the sign that Jesus
intended.

So then, just as Jonah's soul was not left at the bottoms of the mountains,
Christ's soul was not left in the heart of the earth. And just as Jonah's body
was not left to decompose in the fish, neither was Christ's body left to
decompose in the tomb. And just as Jonah came back from his grave within
three days and nights, so Jesus came back from his grave within three days
and nights.

If none of this were so, then Jonah's experience would be a pretty useless
parallel to Christ's.
_

 

[Stumpmaster]

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could
possibly be at the roots of the mountains while in the belly of a fish at the
same time was for the man and his body to part company and go their
separate ways.

Hi Webers Home. How odd that you should miss the obvious meaning of the roots of mountains being the depths of the sea. There are many underwater mountains, but the point is that dry land, whether mountainous or not, rises up from the sea. There is nothing in Scripture to sustain the speculation that Jonah drowned and was deceased at some point.

See this quote from the Believer's Bible Commentary
A. Jonah's Prayer (2:1-9)
Jonah's prayer to God from the stomach of the fish celebrates his deliverance from drowning and not his escape from the fish. The escape followed his prayer. His prayer is remarkable in that it contains fragments from the Book of Psalms. J. Sidlow Baxter analyzes the prayer as follows:
There is not one word of petition in Jonah's prayer. It consists of thanksgiving (verses 2-6), contrition (verses 7, 8) and rededication (verse 9). It is really a psalm of praise, a "Te Deum," a "doxology." I know of a man who once sang the Doxology with his head in his empty flour barrel, as an expression of faith that God would send a further supply of flour! But the novelty of singing a doxology with your head—and all the rest of you—inside a great fish in mid-ocean, is absolutely without rival.
Jonah's prayer is a foreshadowing of Israel's future repentance. When the nation acknowledges the Messiah as Savior, it will be restored to a place of blessing under Him.
The mention of the belly of Sheol in verse 2 has led some to believe that Jonah actually died in the fish and was resurrected. However, the Hebrew word Sheol can mean grave, afterlife, and other things. Here it is probably a poetic usage for "the depths," or as modern idiom might put it, "the pits."
Even though it is most unlikely that Jonah literally died and was raised again, our Lord Himself used the prophet as a picture of His own death, burial for three days and nights, and His glorious resurrection (Mat_12:40). Incidentally, this shows that Christ accepted Jonah as a historical character, and not merely as a "parable," as some modern preachers claim.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

There is nothing in Scripture to sustain the speculation that Jonah drowned
and was deceased at some point.

Most everybody starts off with the wrong idea about Jonah; and it's an error
not easily corrected.

You're unable to see and/or accept Jonah's death and resurrection for now,
but one day you will; it's just a matter of time.
_

 

[Stumpmaster]

.


Most everybody starts off with the wrong idea about Jonah; and it's an error
not easily corrected.

You're unable to see and/or accept Jonah's death and resurrection for now,
but one day you will; it's just a matter of time.
_

I prefer to avoid gnostics and the unscriptural notions they dream up. If there is no solid evidence in Scripture it becomes speculative, not that we can stop people from speculating. Unfortunately many speculators (though not all) claim to have superior knowledge and insight, and adopt a patronising, condescending manner to those who challenge their unsubstantiated claims.

2Ti 2:14
(14) Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

 

[Base12]

.
● Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a
huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth.

Yes, let's talk about this so called 'Heart of the Earth'...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

Well what do you know? According to the Word of God, Hell is a parable for the Womb... and Reincarnation as you will soon see.

That brings us to this wonderful KJV verse...

Jonah 2:2
"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice"

Thus, the whale is representative of...

Belly
Earth
Hell
Womb
Pregnancy

Jonah is the 'seed' inside the Womb.

.
A: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed
by the big fish...

Yes, but there is more to the picture here. When Jonah was cast into the ocean, it was representative of One being cast into the Lake of Fire. The whale represented Jonah being Reincarnated as a baby in the Womb.

Yes, that's right. Reincarnation is Biblical...

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/if-children-come-from-hell-how-did-they-get-there-to-begin-with.31152/

Here is where Jesus fits in...

Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"

What does this mean?

Jesus was preaching to the unborn in the Womb in order to release them from their prisons...

1 Peter 3:19
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

The prison is the Womb with Her 'Bars'...

Jonah 2:6
"I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God"

Jonah 2:6 (International Standard Version)
I sank to the roots of the mountains; the earth's prison bars closed around me forever. Yet you resurrect the dead from the Pit, LORD my God!

The final verse of Chapter 2 describes childbirth...

Jonah 2:10
"And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land"

So because Christians are taught that Reincarnation is not Biblical, they never get to hear this other perspective.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

The Hebrew word for "earth" is 'erets (eh'-rets) which basically means land;
i.e. soil and rock; and can also refer to a country and/or the entire planet;
but it never refers to a woman's body.

The term "lowest parts of the earth" appears in eight more places besides
Psalm 139:15. The others are:

Ps 63:9
Isa 44:23
Ezek 26:20
Ezek 31:14
Ezek 31:16
Ezek 31:18
Ezek 32:18
Ezek 32:24

None of those passages refer to a woman's body, rather, they all refer to
the netherworld.

BTW: Jonah doesn't use the term "lowest parts of the earth". Jonah says
that he went down to the roots of the mountains. Some versions say the
bottoms of the mountains. To my knowledge, there are no mountains in a
woman's womb.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
"I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that
my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I
was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all
my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as
yet there was none of them." (Ps 139:14-16)

The Hebrew word for "substance" is `otsem (o'-tsem). It appears in only
three places in the entire Old Testament. One in Ps 139:15, one in Deut
8:17, and one in Job 30:21.

There lacks a consensus on the word's precise meaning. Based upon what I
found in the Strong's Concordance, `otsem apparently refers to the
constitution of something.

The Hebrew word for "curiously wrought" is raqam (raw-kam') which has to
do with skilled needle-works, i.e. embroidering, knitting, etc, which produce
multicolored handmade articles rather than made by machines.

The Hebrew words for "lowest parts of the earth" always, and without
exception, refer to the netherworld; viz: underground. (e.g. Ps 63:9, Isa
44:23, Ezek 26:20, Ezek 31:14, Ezek 31:16, Ezek 31:18, Ezek 32:18, and
Ezek 32:24)

Some folk prefer to apply Ps 139:15 to a woman's womb; but I think it best,
and far more sensible, to interpret it as relating to the author's creation
rather than his conception. If so, then we probably should review Adam's
beginning in the book of Genesis because everyone, from first to last, are his
biological progeny; Eve too because she was made from human material
taken from Adam's body.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground" (Gen 2:7)

The Hebrew word for "ground" is 'adamah (ad-aw-maw') which refers to soil.

So; if Adam's body was made from soil, then everybody else's body is
derived from soil too because everybody is his biological progeny.

Well then, from whence came soil?

Some of soil's minerals are derived from the disintegration of meteors that
burn up in the atmosphere-- commonly referred to as star dust. But that
only accounts for a small percentage. The bulk of soil's parent materials
come from the disintegration of the Earth's own rocks.

So: from whence came the Earth's rocks?

All the Earth's rocks are formed underground and end up on or near the
surface via natural processes like volcanism, continental plate subduction,
mighty earthquakes, and erosion.

In a nutshell: The author of Ps 139:15 believed that God saw his bodily
constituents while they were not yet even soil but were still underground,
deep in the Earth where they were being formed into rock which would later
be broken down to make soil.

So then, from whence came the physical matter to make rock? Well; that
information is located in the very first two verses of the Bible.
_

 

[Base12]

Some folk prefer to apply Ps 139:15 to a woman's womb...

That's because it is the correct interpretation.

To prove this, here is another Witness that tells it plainly...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"

Note that this is Jesus talking here. So now we have two choices...

1) It is not literal
2) It is literal

I pick option #2.

 

[Base12]

.
The Hebrew word for "ground" is 'adamah (ad-aw-maw') which refers to soil.

So; if Adam's body was made from soil...

Careful. Adam was made from the 'Dust' of the ground... not the ground itself.

In other words, Adam was made from the Organic Matter laying on top of the ground. Think of the Dust of your house being made of dead skin cells, or more specifically, DNA.

Thus, Adam was made from the decomposed remains of perhaps Tree Leaves and or Fruit. This would add credence to the fact that Scripture compares Humans to Trees.

Perhaps we started life as Trees in the Garden of Eden...

Ezekiel 31:18
"To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD"

Funny how Adam and Eve tried to 'cover' themselves with leaves...

Genesis 3:7
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons"

Were the fig Leaves a form of flesh they were used to?

Note that Humans are Carbon (666) Based Life Forms. We are mostly made of something that was alive at one time.

Therefore, we weren't made from 'Rocks' or Lava that came from deep inside the Earth.

 

[Base12]

In a nutshell: The author of Ps 139:15 believed that God saw his bodily
constituents while they were not yet even soil but were still underground,
deep in the Earth where they were being formed into rock which would later
be broken down to make soil.

I wish to share something I find utterly fascinating.

Scripture often compares our bodies to being made from Clay...

Job 33:6
"Behold, I am according to thy wish in God’s stead: I also am formed out of the clay"

At first, One may think that Clay is made out of that rocky dirt in the ground you mentioned.

But check this out...

Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay"

Scripture has revealed to us that 'Clay' is actually the Seed of Man... aka... DNA.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

There is nothing in Scripture to sustain the speculation that Jonah drowned and was deceased at some point.

Are you sure? Jesus said that He is reflective of Jonah being in the Fish for three days, and that Fish represents the Grave, at least to Jesus (at least to Jesus??? Yikes). Jonah was resurrected just as much as was Jesus when Jonah was spewed from the fish and onto dry land. Now, to counter my own point . . . we have an accounting of three men who survived a fiery furnace without a single burn or singe! Therefore, God can do anything, but for the most part, all of Scripture is rational and reasonable.

Another possibility is that though the body of Jonah was dead, the spirit of Jonah could certainly have been praying. Lazarus had been dead long enough that his tomb smelled horribly. But who is Lazarus? Is he body or spirit? If we are first spirit, is it possible that the spirit of Jonah were able to pray?

Hey . . . just throwing out some interesting ideas.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Scripture often compares our bodies to being made from Clay...

I've always thought that our being Clay in the Potter's Hands is all about Christ removing the Defect of the Sinful Nature.

Jeremiah 18:4 NIV - "But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him."

And what is that defect in the Pot? Removing this Defect is the Work of Christ, and that Defect is the Curse of Adam and Eve . . . the Curse of the Sinful Nature. And whose Hands complete this Holy Work? Jesus.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

The KJV translation of Colossians 2:11 states clearly that it is the Spiritual Hands of Christ that remove the Curse.

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

Jesus is the Potter . . . and we are the Clay who He Transforms from possessing the Sinful Nature, to that of the Divine Nature (2 Peter 1:4).

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."