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Joseph found in Egyptian history

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mosheli, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Mosheli

    Mosheli New Member

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    (part 1)
    The biblical story of Joseph the son of Jacob in Egypt is well known to probably most everyone.
    There have been many scholarly theories about which dynasty of ancient Egypt Joseph was in. Conventional scholars place him under the Hyksos (15th/16th dynasty). Rohl places him in the (11th-)12th dynasty. Moller & Wyatt place him in the 3rd dynasty.
    Whatever dynasty Joseph was in Egypt during we should be able to find proof by finding Joseph himself.
    Genesis in the Bible says that Pharoah called Joseph Zaphenath-paneah. Has anyone found such a named person in ancient Egyptian dynastic history (in a time as early in overall Egyptian history as Joseph is in overall biblical history)? Below we list the main extant hitherto theories about the name Zaphenath-paneah.

    Versions of the biblical name:
    Zaphenenath / Zap(h)(e)nat(h)-pa('a)nea(k)h / Zaf'en-ath_pan-ay'ah / / Zaf'uh-nath-puh-nee'uh / Z/s-p-n(-t(_p-'-n-h) / Sapenat_pa'(e)ne(c)ha / Safnatpa'neah / Ts(o)phnath-Pa'neach / Tsaph(e)nat(h)_pa'ne(a)ch(a) / Thafneos (Gildas), or (P)so(n)th(om)-phan((t)e)ch(os)/pane(a)ch (Septuagint, Josephus).

    Theoretical original Egyptian (or Hebrew) renderings of the name:
    Zat-en-aph / Zat(h)nap(h), Za-p-u-nt-p-a-anch / Za-pa-v-nt-pa-aa-ankh(u), Zoph-ent-pa-ankh(u), or Tsaphan/spn/sapan/zdphan/zaphan-paneach, or Sapirnatayuvf(n)anah, S-h-p-y-n-t-p-c-n-h, Sapneteph_onh, S-t-n-p_p-'-n-h, Se(d)-p-nute(r)-ef-onh, or D'fnt / T'f(n(t)) / T'd/T'f(a) + (m)nt/p(-)nutr / T'f-nt-pankh(u), Tchef(u)/Tchofneterp'anch(i), or Djed-pa-netjer-iw.f-ankh(u) / Ddp3ntriw.f'nh / Ddp3ntriwf-anh / Ddp3ntrfanh / D(d)-p'-nt(r)-iw.f-'nh / Dje(d)pa_nute(r)_('e)(f-')ankh(u) / D(ja)d(u)-naf_((')i)p(i)-(a)n(k)h(u) / ipu / Dd-n.f_'ip'ankh' / Djad_tu-naf / Djat-naf / Djed((u)-)en-efpa'anakh, Dafenenas / Dafelelas? or Gd-dn(-iw.f-'nh) / Gd-ipt-nt-iw.f-'nh / Gd-p3-ntr-iw.f-'nh, or Pssw/sh-nty/ntt-m-pnq / Psswntwmpnq, Psotm_peneh.

    Theoretical meanings of the name in Egyptian or Hebrew:
    "(the/a) expounder/revealer/discoverer of (godly) secrets", "a finder of (godly) mysteries", "the man to who mysteries/secrets are revealed", "one who reveals mysteries", "he who explains hidden things", "cover-uncover", "to hide(, treasure, store up, secret) + to (decipher, solve, decode,) interpret", "stored beautiful rest", "the one who has godlike wisdom", "the arbitrator/judge whose position is to pay/dole out provision", "my provision is god", "the provider of food by the living God", "(the) god speaks, [and] he lives", "... is alive, the life", "he/she who is called Anakh/life", "governor of the district of (the (place of) life/living one", "sustainer of life", "bread giver of life", "the one who furnishes the nourishment of life", "the one who furnishes the sustenance of the land", "the nourisher of the 2 lands", "saviour/preserver of the age/world", "salvation of the age", "healer of the world", "a fruitful vine", "the powerful governor of Egypt", "eternity, eternal", or "... Neith ..."?

    The thing with most all of these theories is that they have not found any so named person matching Joseph in Egyptian history (or those few suggested matches of a few are pretty weak).

    About 10 years ago we conducted our own search for which dynasty Joseph was in Egypt during. We searched all through dynastic Egyptian history and found that the only time that seems to best fit was around about the 3rd dynasty of Egypt. No other time seemed to fit as well. In the 3rd-4th dynasty period we found a number of seeming matches evidences that seem to confirm this Joseph placement. Finally some years ago now we also seemingly found a match for Zaphenath-paneah/Joseph himself. We noticed that the name and some details of "pharaoh/king" Sekhem(k)het of the 3rd dynasty seem to match the name and some details of Zaphenath(-paneah). In recent years we came to doubt this match though, but lately we again studied this possible match and we have again come to think & feel that this match seemingly surely must be right.

    Names match:
    First let us compare versions of the two names to show that the names surely are pretty similar.

    Tsaph(e)nat(h) /
    Zap(h)(e)nat(h)
    Sekhem(k)het /
    Se(s)chemchet /
    "Szehemhet" /
    "Sejemjet"

    Zaf'en-at(h)
    Sekhem-(k)het

    (P)so(n)th(om)-
    Sekhem-

    (The 2nd part of Joseph's name Paneah is often supposed to be p-ankh, and it might match the ankh in Sekhemhet's other name Djoserty-ankh? Or the alternative Puh-nee'uh rendering of Paneah is possibly similar to the name of Sekhemhet's successor Huni/Huny?)

    The a & e definitely can interchange. (Modern Egyptologists favour spelling names with e e.g. Re, Aten, Amen.) The n & m can interchange in/between some languages. The Hebrew ts/s/z or (p)s could match the Egyptian s/sz. (The s in Sekhemhet is represented by the folded cloth glyph and the letter was "originally unvoiced".) The final t(h) & t match. The second (k)h in Sekhem(k)het could be omitted/lost in Hebrew. Hyphen in same place in both names. The only more challenging match is the p(h)/f' & kh/h/ch in the middle, but in studying all the variant renderings of Zaphenath this does seem possible. (The 24 consonant Egyptian alphabet is at least uncertain what Hebrew y and f/ph would be in old kingdom Egyptian.)

    An Egyptologist tried to trash the names match by claiming that the phonetic letters of the two names couldn't match. But when we look at the list of all the theoretical original Egyptian renderings of the name Zaphenath-paneah we see that there are many different "expert" theoretical renderings, and there is also no such named person matching Joseph in early Egyptian history.

    Possible examples of Egyptian s matching Semitic ts/s/z:

    Egy ser "rock"
    Heb tzur/zur "rock" (Sadhe)

    Egy sekh "liquid"
    Heb tzuq "to pour or make liquid" (Sadhe)

    Egy sua "to cry aloud, sing"
    Heb tzuch "to cry out, joyful exclamation" (Sadhe)

    Egy suha "to set up, erect"
    Heb tzuh "to set up, constitute" (Tsade)

    Egy seb "reptile"
    Heb tzb "lizard" (tsade)

    Egy sab "wolf, jackal"
    Heb zab/zeeb "wolf" (but its zayin not tsade).
    Heb tzboim "hyenas" (tsade)
    Bab zibu "wolf"

    Egy seb "star"?
    Heb tzabaoth/sabaoth "hosts" (tsade)
    zaba "starry host"
    tzba "as a star" (tsade)

    Egy sep "to turn, a turn"
    Heb tzpr "to go in a circle, to turn, turn, turns" (sadhe)?

    Egy sa "pass away"
    Heb tzah "to go out" (sadhe)?

    Egy sah "hinder part"
    Heb zephon/saponi "north"
    Heb zephan "secret"
    sapan/zaphan "to hide, store up"
    Saophis Comates "trafficker, getter"
    So-khem/Sekhem/Sehem/khem "secret shrine"?

    Egy ser "serpent, camelopard"
    Ass/Akk tsir/sir "serpent"

    Egy ser/tser "extend, elongate"
    Ass/Akk tsiri "long, length

    Egy smay "companion", zma "associate", s(e)ma "to join/unite"
    Arab zamil "companion, fellow"

    Egy sunt "to found"
    Ass/Akk zunuti "foundation"?

    Egy su "the body"
    Ass/Akk zu/su "body"

    Egy sema "encircle"
    Ass zimu "circle, ring"

    Egy sekaru "tower, fort"?
    Ass ziggur(r)at "tower"

    Egy ser "the ideographic arm"
    Ass zaru "arms?"

    Egy sart "to sow seed",
    Akk zer "seed", Ass ziru "corn seed"

    Egy Sekha "to remember, memory"
    Heb zacc(h)ur "mindful"
    Heb Zacher "memorial"
    Heb zachariah "remembered"
    Heb zichri "remembered, famous"
    Ass zacaru "to record, to remember"

    Egy su "papyrus"
    Ass/Akk zu "parchment for writing?"

    Egy se-Ra/sa-Re "son of the sun"
    Heb zarah "sunrise"
    Heb zerah "dawn"
    Arab zarah "dawn"

    Egy set "aromatic"
    Heb ziz "a flower"
     
  2. Mosheli

    Mosheli New Member

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    (part 2.)
    Possible names' meanings match:

    Zaphenath-paneah "the powerful governor of Egypt"?
    Sekhemhet "might/powerful (of/in (the)) body", "might/powerful (of/in the) pervading/spread/through-out".

    Tsaphan/sapan/zaphan means "to hide(, treasure, store up, secret)", "hid, protected"
    S(e)khem can mean "power, might" or "vital force", "scepter", "to have power", "(noun) a power", or "(to) prevail, shut place, to imprison" or "a shrine or sacred house, shrine (of the bearer), the shrine of the child Horus" or "secret shrine" or "most holy place",or "grey haired", "the perogative of divine beings and not used by humans".

    Of this following list of our possible matches for the name & person Zaphenath &/or Paneah in the 3rd-4th dynasty only Sekhemhet seems to best match the name Zaphenath:
    Sanakhte?
    Sekhemhet/Djoserty-ankh?
    Huni?
    Sneferu?
    Djed Sneferu?
    Zazamankh/Djadjaemankh?
    Saophis Comastes "trafficker, getter"?
    Djedefre-ankh?
    Sheshepankh/Sphinx "eternal living image"?
    Shepseskaf?

    Other details matches other than the names:

    Zaphenath: pharaoh gave Joseph a gold chain or necklace of gold.
    Sekhemhet: found in his pyramid complex was a golden necklace or "hollow gold tube".

    Zaphenath: bones removed to Canaan.
    Sekhemhet: intact sarcophagus found but no body found.

    Zaphenath: 7 years plenty, 7 years famine.
    Sekhemhet: Sekhemhet or the king in the king lists he is supposed to match reigned 6 or 7 years?
    Sekhemhet's pyramid supposedly would have had 7 steps.

    Zaphenath: Jacob later came to Egypt.
    Sekhemhet: Khufu/Cheops comes soon after in king lists.
    Khufu seems to match Jacob. khuf & cob/kov are similar. Both names have same meaning of "protect". Both had period of 17 years. Both had 3/4 wives. Etc.

    Zaphenath: Some scholars claim similarities between Joseph & Imhotep (eg Mohler, Wyatt, etc).
    Sekhemhet: Imhotep's name is found in graffiti on Sekhemhet's pyramid complex.

    Zaphenath: 7 years famine.
    Sekhemhet: His pyramid complex is nearby Djoser's, and Djoser is associated with a 7 years drought/famine in the Sehel/Philae inscription.
    The Unas famine scenes are also next to Sekhemhet's pyramid complex.
    Models of granaries in Old Kingdom tombs.

    Zaphenath/Joseph: storehouses of Joseph.
    Sekhemhet: 100/120/132 store/storage rooms/chambers/containers of Sekhemhet's pyramid complex. Wyatt also claimed there are "grain storage bins" in the nearby Step Pyramid complex of Djoser.

    Zaphenath: 7 years plenty.
    Sekhemhet: large/gaint fennel branch on his sarcophagus.

    Zaphenath: His Hebrew name is Joseph.
    Sekhemhet: His other name is Djoserty-ankh.

    Zaphenath: He married Asenath daughter of Potiphera priest of On (Heliopolis).
    Sekhemhet: Nebty or queen name Sen-nebty.
    Nebty or queen name Htp-ren(...)(nebty).
    His pyramid complex at Sakkara is not far from Heliopolis (On).

    Zapheanth/Joseph: was vizier (tjaty).
    Sekhemhet: Birth/Horus/secondary name Teti/Tety/Itety? (Though scholars may be wrong in matching Sekhemhet with Teti in the king lists.)
    "from earliest times viziers and other officials of important rank held the sekhem [scepter]"?

    Zapenath/Joseph: Is called "the all-comely" in Jewish tradition. Genesis & Josephus says/implies he was beautiful/handsome/good-looking.
    Sekhemhet: His name means "might/powerful (of/in the) body".

    Zaphenath: Joseph was a foreigner. Pharaoh placed him over all Egypt. He lived to a 110 years old.
    Sekhemhet: His name could mean "Grey haired Son of a foreigner ruling overall" or "grey haired ruler over all"?

    Zaphenath/Joseph: rode in 2nd chariot.
    Sekhemhet: ramp enterance to his buried pyramid complex.

    Zaphenath: 70 souls. 70 days.
    Sekhemhet: His pyramid has a 72 degrees slope.

    Zaphenath/Joseph: was in Pharaoh's/Potiphar's prison for 2 yrs.
    Sekhemhet: sekhem can mean "shut place, imprison".

    Zaphenath/Joseph: "He was only vizier and was not a king/pharaoh".
    Genesis 45:8 says "he has made me a father to Pharaoh".
    Pharaoh placed him over all the land and made him 2nd only to himself. He gave him his signet ring. Joseph rode in the 2nd chariot, they called abrech "bow the knee". He was adon "lord" over the land. He saved Egypt and made it great.
    His brothers bowed to him (like in the dream), and he was ruler over the Hebrews in Egypt. The "head of Joseph" in Genesis 49. Pharoah placed his brothers over his "cattle". His brothers were afraid of him after Jacob/Israel died.
    The "eternal mountains" of Joseph in Genesis 49 might be pyramids (and "pyramids are supposed to be pharaohs' tombs"). He was placed in coffin.
    "A new king who knew not Joseph" could imply that Joseph or his sons were married into the royal dynastic line?
    (In the story of Bata and Anpu('s wife), which is similar to Joseph and Potiphar's wife, Bata becomes ruler/king/pharaoh at the end.)
    Sekhemhet: He is supposed by modern scholars to have been a king/pharaoh of the 3rd dynasty, but his name doesn't occur in any king lists, and the only support for him being a king is that he has a Horus name.
    Sekhemhet is the supposed "successor" of Djoser, and his semi-pyramid complex is beside Djoser's and looks to me as if a vizier's beside his king's?
    (Sekhemhet could mean "Grey haired Son of a foreigner ruling overall" or "grey haired ruler over all"?)

    Zaphenath/Joseph: He is in the 1st book of the bible and is early in overall biblical chronology.
    His biblical date is ca 1800s bc.
    Sekhemhet: He is early in overall ancient Egyptian dynastic history.
    Conventional chronology claims that his date is "2600s" bc and so supposedlycan't match Joseph of 1800s bc. However, the conventional chronology has no solid proofs of their theoretical ascribed dates of the dynasties, and all of their "expert" "scientific" dating methods are unreliable (see separate long article on this).
    Material found in Sekhemhet's "pyramid" complex yielded a carbon date of 600 years older that his conventional Egyptological date [which is over 600 years older than his real date contemporary with Joseph.]
    Herodotus said Menes (1st dyn) was (1)1340 yrs before Seti (19th dyn), and Josephus said Menes was 1300 yrs before Solomon/Shishak (ca 900s bc).
    Herodotus said Moeris (12th dyn) was only 900 yrs before [Amasis II or Amyrtaeus].

    At this stage I know that the match if it is true will not be accepted by conventional scholars primarily for two reasons: (1) They will still assert that their chronology is right and so the dates supposedly don't match; (2) they may assert that the phonetics of the two names don't match. This opposition will not be disolved until their chronology is proven wrong and the true dates of the dynasties are proven (with more than just horizontal matches evidences which they refuse to accept), and until the interchanges are proven more heavily. In the mean time though I am pretty sure this match of Zaphenath/Joseph with Sekhemhet seems surely correct, and so I wish to share it with others who are interested in the history of the bible being proven true.
     
  3. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] (He is the namesake for my youngest son's middle name. ;)
    His first name, Zephaniah, sounds similar to "Zaphenath-paneah.")
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  4. 2 Chr. 34:19

    2 Chr. 34:19 Well-Known Member

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    Not a ‘story’
    Exodus 13:19
    And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him, for he had placed the children of Israel under solemn oath, saying, “God will surely visit you, and you shall carry up my bones from here with you.”
     
    Sabertooth likes this.
  5. 69chapels

    69chapels Member

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    (All False)

    (God wrote some of the gospel directly, but at the same time, God allowed corruptible men to carry and modify the gospel)

    (God said in the Book of Revelation that "Jesus was Crucified in Egypt", that did not happen. What God talks about in Genesis with "Joseph" (a tribe not a person), is a parable, for the Events of Revelation, when God does nothing ultimately, or, nothing much)

    (God revealed "Joseph in Egypt" was a parable" about the Book of Revelations, not having much value, in disputing God versus Satan performing the work of "dead flesh" (removed tribes), before the lord's coming) (this is one legal answer, as revelation states, "The Lord Crucified in Egypt" (nullified/invalid/ or no jesus found in the tomb, no judgment from god, no judgment at all for humanity, in dead flesh accusation with god)

    ("Joseph" means "complete law", humanity did not have a complete law until the events of the new testament, ending with jesus and the crucifixion. So, this cannot be true. additionally, "Joseph" is only accounted with the tribes in the events of revelation, not before)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (the legal claim is the account is a parable, FALSE, not literal)


    Mohammad's Law (blind and dumb) (not Joseph's Law a Rainbow or unified field)

    (1kings11:29-32) God said to King David, because they violated the law of moses, is going beyond the jordan river, I cannot judge them any further!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then God said to David, to bless and proclaim isreal for the name of the lord. Then God said to David, because you are to bless isreal, I have sent other angels to proclaim judgment, and to reveal wickedness, and to bring confusion of tongs and plagues (at that time jeroboam took ten tribes from david) (and the ark of the covenant was taken away from isreal)

    (when Lazarus came out of the tomb, they said, he was asleep, it was a fake, and if it wasn't a fake, then we'll continue to curse and kill as we please....................God cut into their "suicide pleasure", of satan, and it wasn't until 70 A.D. that jerusalem was destroyed, you can suffer and die, if your wagering suicide pleasure with god, that is the law)

    (you are not otherwise, entitled to a judgment, you are not entitled to a sign or a vision, everything will be resolved 12/21/2020 with perhaps, nothing at all) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    EDIT
    EDIT
    EDIT

    (Akhenaten) "The Alien Pharoah Prophecy" is equilavent to the statement that "jesus was crucified in egypt in the events of revelation" (nothing at all happens, no judgment, that is law) (we will settle things once and for all time soon)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  6. 2 Chr. 34:19

    2 Chr. 34:19 Well-Known Member

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    ?????
     
  7. 69chapels

    69chapels Member

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    (God gave Moses Three Sets of 10 Commandments, but because the Law was not finished, "joseph the blessings", God allowed Moses to destroy one set of 10 Commandments)
    (Egyptian, Babylonian, etc. Adopted teachings from the first five books of the gospel god presented to isreal into their paganisms. Claims are made, with no proof. We have historians and etc. tying loose ends with nothing but conjecture)


    1. Genealogy of Homosapien = Genesis 5
    2. Genealogy of Shem = Genesis 10 (killed from earth completely before homosapien)
    3. Genealogy of "Joseph the Blessings" (unified field exercisement) = Genesis 11 (Babel) (or Blank Genealogy of Genesis 18)

    ...................
    All the Sons of Joseph (jacob) in Egypt were "Fourteen" (parable not real)
    GENESIS 46:22 These [are] the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls [were] fourteen.
    .....................
    New Testament More Detail
    1.
    Genealogy of Homosapien = Luke 3............77 Generations
    2. Genealogy of Shem = Matthew 1...............41 Generations
    3. Genealogy of "Joseph the Blessings" = Matthew 1:17............"14, 14, 14"

    (when Jesus was crucified by those genetic lines, dead flesh accusation, Jesus crucifixion was only acting this out..............no jesus in tomb, just some dirty rags, the law for "joseph the blessings" was INVALID, INVALID in the old testament, and INVALID in the new testament ============ "dead flesh accusation against god", of those genetic lines/tribes removed from the book of revelation)



    Revelation Specific More Detail (blind and dumb is no excuse)

    HALLEY'S COMET 71.6 Years
    For the same reason, the heliacal rising or zenith of Sirius does not slip through the calendar at the precession rate of about one day per 71.6 years as other stars do but much slower. This remarkable stability within the solar year may be one reason that the Egyptians used it as a basis for their calendar.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sothic_cycle

    1260 of Revelation = 2061 for Halley's Comet

    77 Years ===== 2061 Halley's Comet - 77 years = 1991 (UFO GUARDIAN DIAGRAM) (degrees against galactic alignment plane)
    41 Years ===== 12/21/2020 to 7/8/2061 Halley's Comet (Jupiter Conjunction)
    14 Years ===== 2006 A.D. to 12/21/2020 Pluto Declassified

    (77 Years, not necessarily Solstice Precessional Alignment, 1980/1998/2012/2016 ............. Comet Apophis ............rough total 77 years)

    ........................
    "Fourteen As a Repeating figure that deals with "Joseph the Blessings"????)

    Flight 370 Missing in 2014 A.D. + 1290 and 1335 of Daniel, 153 days before on 12/21/2020..............Everything resolved perhaps with nothing at all this year soon!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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