Judging

[aspen]

Matt.7.1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

And Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 14-21

I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Therefore I urge you, imitate me. For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church.
Now some are puffed up, as though I were not coming to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will know, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. What do you want? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of gentleness?

Indeed. The admonishment regarding judging others is a blunt, yet loving warning from our Father in Heaven, and Paul who spoke as a father to the church of Corinth. It was not instructions on how to judge others, it was a warning against doing so because, in fact, judging others is actually a window into our behavior, specifically, our jealousy.

Judging the homeless guy on the street for not pulling himself up by the bootstraps reveals an underlying jealous within the judge......”why does this bum get to ask for money while sitting around all day when I had to bust my butt to get where I am at!”

Judging the homosexual; “why does this person get to openly live their lives defying God! And now, the person has the nerve to demand equal social status as me, who is a good Christian in a solid heterosexual marriage!”

The two Judges in the example do not want to be homeless or gay, instead they are envious of the freedom of the individuals to flaunt Gods laws without obvious consequences.

Elementary school classrooms are great places to watch this behavior unfold. Little Billy is quietly working on his school work after the teacher asks the students to stop talking and get to work; yet, several students continue talking quietly, which is seemingly ignored by the teacher! Although Little Billy is remaining silent, he is seething! Hopefully, in his heart he holds out for special treatment for his obvious disciple and self control, however, to his horror, the class is held in from recess because of the continued talking in the back of the classroom!!

Who has the mental breakdown in this example? It certainly is not the talkers in the back of the classroom.......

In fact, it is Little Billy who is left seething in jealousy - why did he have to obey the rules?! And then, unbelievably get punished!! Outrageous!

Because following the narrow path is your goal, Little Billy and it can be painful sometimes; life doesn’t always feel fair, carry on anyway!

Paul tells us to point out sin in our neighbor in love.....he is clear about not overlooking sin, but confront the sinner gently, yet hold up the norms of the community. The experience can also be an opportunity to confront your own sin with the knowledge that the only reason we are allowed by God to recognize personal sin in others is to identify and root it out within ourselves.

Please share your thoughts on judging, church disciple, and person experiences with judging.

 

[CoreIssue]

It does not say do not judge. It says judge justly.

You cannot live life and not judge. It is impossible.

John 7:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

 

[aspen]

It does not say do not judge. It says judge justly.

You cannot live life and not judge. It is impossible.

John 7:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

And judging correctly means?

 

[Nancy]

John 7:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”[/QUOTE]

Matt.7.1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

And Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 14-21

I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Therefore I urge you, imitate me. For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church.
Now some are puffed up, as though I were not coming to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will know, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. What do you want? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of gentleness?

Indeed. The admonishment regarding judging others is a blunt, yet loving warning from our Father in Heaven, and Paul who spoke as a father to the church of Corinth. It was not instructions on how to judge others, it was a warning against doing so because, in fact, judging others is actually a window into our behavior, specifically, our jealousy.

Judging the homeless guy on the street for not pulling himself up by the bootstraps reveals an underlying jealous within the judge......”why does this bum get to ask for money while sitting around all day when I had to bust my butt to get where I am at!”

Judging the homosexual; “why does this person get to openly live their lives defying God! And now, the person has the nerve to demand equal social status as me, who is a good Christian in a solid heterosexual marriage!”

The two Judges in the example do not want to be homeless or gay, instead they are envious of the freedom of the individuals to flaunt Gods laws without obvious consequences.

Elementary school classrooms are great places to watch this behavior unfold. Little Billy is quietly working on his school work after the teacher asks the students to stop talking and get to work; yet, several students continue talking quietly, which is seemingly ignored by the teacher! Although Little Billy is remaining silent, he is seething! Hopefully, in his heart he holds out for special treatment for his obvious disciple and self control, however, to his horror, the class is held in from recess because of the continued talking in the back of the classroom!!

Who has the mental breakdown in this example? It certainly is not the talkers in the back of the classroom.......

In fact, it is Little Billy is left seething in jealousy - why did he have to obey the rules?! And then, get punished!!

Instead, Paul tells us to point out sin in our neighbor in love.....he is clear about not overlooking sin, but confront the sinner gently, yet hold up the norms of the community. The experience can also be an opportunity to confront your own sin with the knowledge that the only reason we are allowed by God to recognize personal sin in others is to identify and root it out within ourselves.

Please share your thoughts on judging, church disciple, and person experiences with judging.

John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

So, then there is a way TO judge those- within the Church that is. And there is a way to NOT judge our brethren.
It seems humans rarely have the whole story behind anothers actions...but we seem to have that knee jerk reaction to certain things. Like, 'if is walks like a duck..." that seems presumptuous. Yet...what if it were just plain old discernment? If that is something (hopefully!) you pray for. Is it wrong to be , well right, lol...in these instances? If somebody within The Church were to wrong you in a way you have been wronged before. Is is wrong to be wary of people who have these same traits? Or, as it is a different person, but with many things in common with the other person, is it judging them beforehand? It's like, where does one draw the line when it comes to other "Christians" using you? Is it a sin to avoid certain birds of a feather (I know that sounds really bad, but not at all intended!) because of your past experiences?
Just a wonderin.

 

[aspen]

Well, unfortunately, even when the advice is provided in the most gentle and loving manner, most human beings will not accept it. I know, I am a therapist. Even when a person begs you to ‘just tell me what I need to do to be happy!!’ They are really asking you to make them happy. So, if you do tell a person what they need to do to adjust their walk with God....especially, if they didn’t ask, they will most certainly rank it as the last thing they will ever do.

 

[CoreIssue]

John 7:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

So, then there is a way TO judge those- within the Church that is. And there is a way to NOT judge our brethren.
It seems humans rarely have the whole story behind anothers actions...but we seem to have that knee jerk reaction to certain things. Like, 'if is walks like a duck..." that seems presumptuous. Yet...what if it were just plain old discernment? If that is something (hopefully!) you pray for. Is it wrong to be , well right, lol...in these instances? If somebody within The Church were to wrong you in a way you have been wronged before. Is is wrong to be wary of people who have these same traits? Or, as it is a different person, but with many things in common with the other person, is it judging them beforehand? It's like, where does one draw the line when it comes to other "Christians" using you? Is it a sin to avoid certain birds of a feather (I know that sounds really bad, but not at all intended!) because of your past experiences?
Just a wonderin. [/QUOTE]
We are to judge those in the church by the Bible and the guidance of the Holy Spirit,

So just need guidance and correction. Some need stricter action.

And then there are the faults, that basically need to be told to shape up or ship out.

There are examples of all that in the Bible.

The definition of judging is a very broad term. It can range from telling somebody naughty naughty to your actions are intolerable.

It also says were not to judge those outside the church.

But in all situations we are to judge even when we need to physically defend ourselves.

There is no escaping judging things every day. It is impossible.

Raising kids is judgment. Doing work is judgment. Listening to the news is really loaded with judgment.

The big key is to know when to shut up and not say a word.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well, unfortunately, even when the advice is provided in the most gentle and loving manner, most human beings will not accept it. I know, I am a therapist. Even when a person begs you to ‘just tell me what I need to do to be happy!!’ They are really asking you to make them happy. So, if you do tell a person what they need to do to adjust their walk with God....especially, if they didn’t ask, they will most certainly rank it as the last thing they will ever do.

And you do realize but psychiatry is non-Christian based.

 

[aspen]

And you do realize but psychiatry is non-Christian based.

Lol

Ok Little Billy......

 

[Helen]

@aspen

Good opening post!!

 

[FHII]

Based on the scripture, I believe many have an incomplete understanding of judging. The saints shall judge the world and even angels. So while we do have that verse in Matt 7, there are other verses to consider.

1 Corinthians 6:1-6 KJV
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
[2] Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
[4] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
[5] I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
[6] But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

1 Corinthians is a book that you must really understand what's going on before pulling quotes from it. While these verses don't tell the whole story, it's a good sample. The short version is that members of the Church were treating each other badly. Here, Paul calls for them to somewhat set up court amongst themselves.

Titus 1:9-14 KJV
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
[10] For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
[11] Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
[12] One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
[13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
[14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

I bring this verse up because Paul advised Titus to rebuke them sharply, and in context to teach bishops to do the same. This can still be done with love despite being sharp. Now also in context it's talking about watching out for old Jewish fables and practices -- even the law -- creeping in to the doctrine of Grace.

So, what do we do with these 3 sets of verses(Matt 7, 1 Cor 6 and Titus 1)? It seems to me that Mat 7:1-5 tell us not to be fault finders. Don't be so quick to point out other's faults and sins when we have our own personal faults.

1 Corinthians has a different problem. This is a matter of ill treatment... Lack of brotherly love. That should be dealt with and Paul gives instruction on what to do.

The Titus verse has to do with false doctrine. Oddly enough, Paul prescribes sharp rebuke against those who rail against the truth.

In short, my conclusion is that we are not to judge each other in our liberties, but we are also not to allow discord amongst brothers or false doctrine to creep in. In these cases, even if the judgment is harsh (or "sharp"), it's still able to be done with love.

I want to end with own more powerful verse:

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

What I get from this verse is that whatever judgment or rebuke you get in Church or here on Earth (if it be a righteous judgment) is far better than what judgment you may get at the White Throne. That's a judgment date you DON'T want!